IF the NSA wanted to take control over Bitcoin, how would they do it?

[becoin]

.. whatever, I hope you've got my point.

I've got your point. Let me summarize it:
- everybody can have secrets and that is OK
- NSA have secrets and taxpayers are not allowed to know them because taxpayers will not be safe if they know them.
- If taxpayers have secrets NSA have the right to know them because taxpayers will be safe if NSA know their secrets

However silly it sounds, yes, this is the big picture.

If it sounds silly and it looks silly most probably it is silly.

[NeuroticFish]

If it sounds silly and it looks silly most probably it is silly.

All you want to imply is that there's only black and white, no other choice.

I know, it sounds scary that you cannot, in theory, have secrets. But that's only in theory.
Nothing can be monitored perfectly. From the point that some things happened in places inaccessible for the ones that do the monitoring to the point there's so much information that it doesn't matter they do the monitoring or not, they cannot find you unless they look express for you or you draw attention.

Some years ago it was said that mails are monitored and certain words like bomb, meth, "rang the alarm".
From maybe millions of mails sent each second.. what can they find? Hmm?
And then add up all the other means to find your secrets.

What do they do? Search for needles in the haystack. A huge haystack.


So, back to start. Imho you have your secrets, they have theirs. They have the good reasons to find yours if they can harm "the country". You don't have good reasons to find theirs.
If you are like 99.999% of us, then let them try to do the monitoring they want; you will not be caught in their patterns, they will not care of your secrets.

[Wapinter]

Some ideas on how it could work:

- Read through the connection data (phone,email etc) from key figures of the Bitcoin community to gain insider knowledge
- Infiltrate core development and replace Bitcoin key figures with NSA staff
- Discredit respected members of the community
- Kill people, if they don't corporate.


Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid?

The question is why would they do it?the moment they took contol of bitcoin and destroy it decentralization we all will abandon it.Bitcoin will no longer be useful anymore

[becoin]

If you are like 99.999% of us, then let them try to do the monitoring they want; you will not be caught in their patterns, they will not care of your secrets.

I will not give them my taxpayer money to let them monitor me! I'm not an imbecile. Case solved.

[whored]

The question is why would they do it?

If Bitcoin becomes a threat or a nuisance?

@becoin re. "my taxpayer money" -- they actually tax your dole?

[Snorek]

Some ideas on how it could work:

- Read through the connection data (phone,email etc) from key figures of the Bitcoin community to gain insider knowledge
- Infiltrate core development and replace Bitcoin key figures with NSA staff
- Discredit respected members of the community
- Kill people, if they don't corporate.


Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid?

The question is why would they do it?the moment they took contol of bitcoin and destroy it decentralization we all will abandon it.Bitcoin will no longer be useful anymore

Bitcoin won't upgrade itself. People need to do that, and it is better to own these key people crucial for bitcoin development?
Then you could impose some ideas on rest of the community and lead it where you want it.

And maybe that is their plan? They don't want bitcoin to be useful anymore, they want to be 'failed experiment'. No more bitcoin = stronger dollar, maybe?

[AGD]

Some ideas on how it could work:

- Read through the connection data (phone,email etc) from key figures of the Bitcoin community to gain insider knowledge
- Infiltrate core development and replace Bitcoin key figures with NSA staff
- Discredit respected members of the community
- Kill people, if they don't corporate.


Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid?

The question is why would they do it?the moment they took contol of bitcoin and destroy it decentralization we all will abandon it.Bitcoin will no longer be useful anymore

I was not saying "destroy" but "take control", which is significantly different.

[Wapinter]

Some ideas on how it could work:

- Read through the connection data (phone,email etc) from key figures of the Bitcoin community to gain insider knowledge
- Infiltrate core development and replace Bitcoin key figures with NSA staff
- Discredit respected members of the community
- Kill people, if they don't corporate.


Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid?

The question is why would they do it?the moment they took contol of bitcoin and destroy it decentralization we all will abandon it.Bitcoin will no longer be useful anymore

I was not saying "destroy" but "take control", which is significantly different.

But wouldn't their taking contol of bitcoin will actually akin to destroying the bitcoin?
So it is not different whether they contol it or destroy it

[becoin]

You don't have good reasons to find theirs.

I do have.
Taxpayers have very good reasons to know what their taxes are spent for.

[RodeoX]

I have yet to see a single feasible idea of how bitcoin can be "destroyed". Not in this thread, not in any thread in the last 6 years. The only possible concern I have is a loss of net neutrality. If that happens all decisions about what will be allowed on the internet are in the hands of a few people. It would be the end of all electronic privacy and bitcoin may be the least of our concerns. 

[Almagro]

Some ideas on how it could work:

- Read through the connection data (phone,email etc) from key figures of the Bitcoin community to gain insider knowledge
- Infiltrate core development and replace Bitcoin key figures with NSA staff
- Discredit respected members of the community
- Kill people, if they don't corporate.


Are core devs discussing this possiblility of a large scale infiltration and how to avoid?

this frightens me a lot =x

[JaneEverycunt]

I have yet to see a single feasible idea of how bitcoin can be "destroyed". ...

- Find dirt on devs; offer laughably small sums of money to put on jackboots. Alternative: fed time.
- Offer Chinese miners actual IRL money > 12.5 BTC after the halvening to solve blocks.
- Block port 8333 at provider level.
- Be like Russia and Iceland, make BTC illegal.

Maybe you're just not looking?

[AGD]

I have yet to see a single feasible idea of how bitcoin can be "destroyed". Not in this thread, not in any thread in the last 6 years. The only possible concern I have is a loss of net neutrality. If that happens all decisions about what will be allowed on the internet are in the hands of a few people. It would be the end of all electronic privacy and bitcoin may be the least of our concerns. 

This thread is not about destroying Bitcoin.

[MingLee]

If the NSA was really hell-bent on taking over Bitcoin, they would have to basically get at the core of Bitcoin; the miners. If they can control them, either through technical or physical control, then they can decide how to move coins, restrict blocks, and other various things. They would have to strike at the heart in order to kill it, anything outside of that wouldn't mean anything.

[becoin]

If the NSA was really hell-bent on taking over Bitcoin, they would have to basically get at the core of Bitcoin; the miners. If they can control them, either through technical or physical control, then they can decide how to move coins, restrict blocks, and other various things. They would have to strike at the heart in order to kill it, anything outside of that wouldn't mean anything.

So, bitcoin is safe because majority of miners are beyond the reach of NSA in China.

[X badapple X]

If the NSA was really hell-bent on taking over Bitcoin, they would have to basically get at the core of Bitcoin; the miners. If they can control them, either through technical or physical control, then they can decide how to move coins, restrict blocks, and other various things. They would have to strike at the heart in order to kill it, anything outside of that wouldn't mean anything.

So, bitcoin is safe because majority of miners are beyond the reach of NSA in China.

Safe from NSA, not safe from Communist government which can make BTC illegal/nationalize mines

[becoin]

I have yet to see a single feasible idea of how bitcoin can be "destroyed". Not in this thread, not in any thread in the last 6 years. The only possible concern I have is a loss of net neutrality. If that happens all decisions about what will be allowed on the internet are in the hands of a few people. It would be the end of all electronic privacy and bitcoin may be the least of our concerns. 

This thread is not about destroying Bitcoin.

You can control bitcoin if only you show heavily invested miners that you can destroy it.

[RodeoX]

I have yet to see a single feasible idea of how bitcoin can be "destroyed". ...

- Find dirt on devs; offer laughably small sums of money to put on jackboots. Alternative: fed time.
- Offer Chinese miners actual IRL money > 12.5 BTC after the halvening to solve blocks.
- Block port 8333 at provider level.
- Be like Russia and Iceland, make BTC illegal.

Maybe you're just not looking?

-Dirt on Devs? Why would that make a difference in mathematical calculation? This is an open source project and any person on the planet can be a dev. The bitcoin core dev team is the most recognized team, but the community can chose any distro by simply running it.  Devs have absolutely no more control than anyone. They come up with ideas that are adopted by consensus. Some people may adopt whatever the devs write or support their work. That is a choice we all make equally.

-So the NSA is going to offer millions (billions?) of dollars to miners in China? Where is that money coming from? It would take congressional funding. "Congress I want a billion dollars to give to the Chinese so that we can disrupt the bitcoin network for a few weeks. Oh, and we get nothing in return." that is not logical.

-Blocking port 8333 is extremely easy to deal with. It would also require the cooperation of every single provider on Earth. It is impossible to imagine. As I mentioned earlier, loss of net neutrality is the only way to broadly disrupt transactions. This would, however, only apply to servers in the U.S. I would just rent some server space in Panama and carry on.  

Illegal on what grounds? The law is not just a guy who says what is illegal. There has to be a legal justification and the courts in the U.S. have already made their decision. Some people point out that liberty dollars and other currencies have been found to be illegal in the past. But none of those arguments were found to be valid in the case of bitcoin. If you live in a dictatorship or something then this may be a problem.

[Slowturtleinc]

NSA can search cell phones and laptops of people travelling through airports and just create a program to quickly look for bitcoin addresses and wallets. Starting with harrassing travellers would get enough message out that people need to be weary that it will trickle outwards into concerned parents and family.
Crossing a state line/border could become a issue for any one with bitcoin and they could start rounding known bitcoin supporter up in roadblocks.
It really would not be as hard as people think to start making bitcoin harder to use. Have internet providers ban access to wallets,exchanges and anywhere that buys and sells.
Always point to this but look at black friday for poker online and how effective that was at dropping traffic.
You could make bitcoin illegal and easily get the same outcome but most likly more severe.

[Blacula X]

I have yet to see a single feasible idea of how bitcoin can be "destroyed". Not in this thread, not in any thread in the last 6 years. The only possible concern I have is a loss of net neutrality. If that happens all decisions about what will be allowed on the internet are in the hands of a few people. It would be the end of all electronic privacy and bitcoin may be the least of our concerns. 

This thread is not about destroying Bitcoin.

You can control bitcoin if only you show heavily invested miners that you can destroy it.

>heavily invested miners


Miners aren't heavily invested, at least not in actual BTC, they sell it. Cometh teh halvening, their operations will be outright unprofitable, and then...