Beware of PayPal and other reversible transfer services

[OmegaStarScream]

Paypal doesńt even have 2FA.
They are amateurs,and i dont trust them.
why keeping  money there, thats giving them credit

They do have 2FA actually but that's no reason to keep your money there. Just like you shouldn't keep your bitcoin inside exchanges (regardless of the security measurements they have).

[1713981139]

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[mr.relax]

Yes I am surprised to find the 2FA option in the settings now. Dont know when they invented that. But that is good.
But any good financial page will force you to use 2FA, its default.
At paypal if you dont know they offer 2FA, you might not even know that exists...
in Germany any Online Bank HAS TO USE 2FA...No option without...

Well Dont keep your funds at 3rd parties as far as possible, thats still obvious, and right.
My personal experience with Paypal is very bad.
Scammers reversed incoming payments, so Paypal let them steal my money and  blocked my left funds, asked ridicoulous papers and proofs,
they kept my money for one year, after that they released it to me after a fierce email-fight, but kicked me for a lifetime.
So I am not really neutreal...I dont like them. They fucked me...
...and if a scammer uses paypal to reverse payments, they will never ever cover any loss, like a bank in some cases might do if your bankaccount was hacked.
No, another customer will pay,and thats normally the receiver of the funds.


Even without any reverse or scam, they do ask KYC questions even after funny small payments. Well after receiving 200USD, why should i explain where the money is from at for what goods. In Europe everyone has more cash any day in his wallet. Thats total insane.

If the payer has funded his Paypal with CC, PP will ALWAYS reverse the payment,if the payer does, even if they know for sure, its a scam...PP  NEVER shows responsible
.So to receive funds with paypal is too risky.

BTW, as a paymentprovider, PPs Fees are crazy high. So in one way or another, all customers pay that.
I dont support so greedy companies.

[jerry0]

It would only be safe selling bitcoin for paypal only if you know that person right?


Also how long could someone reverse a paypal payment?

[mr.relax]

yes, only if you know the person.
Its reversible 1 year.

[jerry0]

yes, only if you know the person.
Its reversible 1 year.

Really?  So paypal reversible is up to one whole year?  I thought i read 6 months.

[OmegaStarScream]

Really?  So paypal reversible is up to one whole year?  I thought i read 6 months.

The problem lays in the source of the funds. Charging back shouldn't be possible if funds were sent as a gift unless of course, the PayPal balance was originally loaded from a bank account/credit card.

[btcb3g1nn3r]

Maybe it fits here, paypal transaction history is not possible to be reported to financial institutions if you have a trace via topping the balance with bank account transfer/card payments? I guess those who're using it are using new accounts never connected with any bank?

[jerry0]

What about cashapp and applepay?  If so, how many days can someone reverse it?

[OmegaStarScream]

What about cashapp and applepay?  If so, how many days can someone reverse it?

They're both reversible. It may not be as easy as PayPal, but it's still possible.

As a rule: If the a payment method balance can be topped up using a credit card or a bank accont, then you shouldn't use it, not when dealing with BTC anyway.

[Bisesh]

Thanks I was really going to do it but you warned me and save me thanks for your valuable information

[The Sceptical Chymist]

As a rule: If the a payment method balance can be topped up using a credit card or a bank accont, then you shouldn't use it, not when dealing with BTC anyway.

I know your post is a bit old, but I'll reply to it anyway since I'm here.  What you said is true in the vast majority of cases, but there are members here who can be trusted with PayPal and other reversible payment methods--you just have to know who's trusted (and that's the hard part).  For example, I've done a deal with you in the past if I'm not mistaken, and it's way past the chargeback time frame at this point.

Thanks I was really going to do it but you warned me and save me thanks for your valuable information

If you're new here, you definitely shouldn't be doing PayPal deals, even if you can find someone to trade with you.  Figure out who's trusted and who's not, and avoid dealing with other newbies if they're offering PayPal in exchange for bitcoin.  That's a great way to get scammed.

If PayPal starts letting you buy and sell bitcoin that you can deposit and withdraw, all of this should be a moot point (at least for PayPal; other reversible methods will remain risky). 

[philipma1957]

As a rule: If the a payment method balance can be topped up using a credit card or a bank accont, then you shouldn't use it, not when dealing with BTC anyway.

I know your post is a bit old, but I'll reply to it anyway since I'm here.  What you said is true in the vast majority of cases, but there are members here who can be trusted with PayPal and other reversible payment methods--you just have to know who's trusted (and that's the hard part).  For example, I've done a deal with you in the past if I'm not mistaken, and it's way past the chargeback time frame at this point.

Thanks I was really going to do it but you warned me and save me thanks for your valuable information

If you're new here, you definitely shouldn't be doing PayPal deals, even if you can find someone to trade with you.  Figure out who's trusted and who's not, and avoid dealing with other newbies if they're offering PayPal in exchange for bitcoin.  That's a great way to get scammed.

If PayPal starts letting you buy and sell bitcoin that you can deposit and withdraw, all of this should be a moot point (at least for PayPal; other reversible methods will remain risky). 

If someone like me with hundreds of good trust wants to pay in PayPal most likely you will be fine.

But new people of people gone for years that just show up most likely you will have an issue.

[condoras]

If PayPal starts letting you buy and sell bitcoin that you can deposit and withdraw, all of this should be a moot point (at least for PayPal; other reversible methods will remain risky). 

So that means that PayPal will have no reversibility when are you paying with BTC? If that's the case, then PayPal will lose one of its main advantages for buyers, as a service provider. Unless, if they figure out some kind of measure like locking the price at the time of the payment in fiat and in the case of a dispute, refund you the amount. Of course, the price will be different...

[jerry0]

Does anyone know how long someone could reverse


venmo
cashapp
apple pay



Also, I heard boa/zelle could possibly be reversed?  If so, how long?  I know Chase QP is very similar to paypal in reversal.


I also heard bank wires are still possible to reverse but very hard though.




So basically if that is the case, isn't only payments where it cannot be reversed would be




Cash Deposit into your bank account but you don't send until that night once the bank closes or early the next day? 


Payment By Cash but you have to make sure it is not counterfeit?  So you do that by depositing that cash at the bank or atm?  Or using a pen to check each one? 

[mekie]

What Theymos says is largely correct. However, when a debit or credit card payment is disputed the person disputing it must give a reason. Following your dispute of the transaction the card issuer will ask the merchant for an explanation.

1. So you buy a gold ring described as 14ct paying with your card. When it arrives you find it is only 10ct , you try to resolve it but the seller wont respond, you raise the dispute, card issuer says to merchant why did you send wrong item? retailer says it's the only one in stock and who will notice the difference, Card company finds in your favour and will deduct the sale from the merchant and refund you as it is plainly the merchants fault.


2. You order a suite for a wedding and pay on your Card, it's a great suite perfect fit etc, after the wedding your a bit short of cash so you send it back saying you don't like it and it wont fit and want a refund. The retailer says sorry you wore it and we wont refund. You raise a dispute and the card company asks the merchant for their side.  Merchant reply's "you wore it to the wedding and look here you are on FB looking happy".  Card company declines your refund.

In both cases the card issuer will decide ( there are appeal avenues if you think the decision is unjust)

So back to crypto: as you can see in 1. you didn't get your goods-you payed for some BTC and you didn't receive it. Raise a dispute and the person accepting the card payment will have it taken back and you would be refunded-in theory. to to the seller
In case 2 you buy some BTC then 10 minutes later change your mind, the seller says sale is final and no refunds but we will buy them back at a discount rate-we will give you 50% of what you paid, you raise a dispute with card company-they ask seller what was agreed  they say you purchased the Btc then changed your mind. OK says card company keep your money, goes back gto you and says sorry they are correct- The good news is you still have the btc

The other payment systems will have something along the lines above,
Just be careful the main danger is that a stolen Credit/debit card was used and in that case provided you accepted  it in good faith you should still be ok

Finally, do your homework/due diligence on whatever payment method you use

[Cryptoctupus]

I havent used paypal or similar services because of the high price they charge...  instead I have chosen to make use of bank transactions...  Which one you would recomend taking into account... security and charges...

Money sent through PayPal and any other money transfer service that accepts credit cards can be easily reversed by the sender, even after several weeks. Therefore, you should only accept PayPal in trades with people you trust very highly.

This is why newbies are not likely to sell their PayPal USD for bitcoins successfully.

Some other services that are not totally safe:
- Bank transfers (ACH, etc.) except wire transfers
- Most gift cards.
- Moneypak
- AlertPay
- Paysafecards
- Dwolla
- Western Union (they reportedly will sue the recipient to recover money in some cases)

[MaxLichfield]

Thanks for the practical advice and strategies that help newbies navigate the world of local bitcoin trading safely and effectively.

[jerry0]

What about


Cashapp
Applepay
zelle
venmo
chase qp

[logfiles]

What about


Cashapp
Applepay
zelle
venmo
chase qp

If you are actively using the services, then you should be aware if the payments are reversible or not. Read the FAQs and Terms of service, but I am pretty sure some of them have a provision for reversible transfer or freezing of funds.