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[Amaralluis]

Hey guys,

Leonardo newbie here. Can I use the ping pong strategy in a such a way that adapts to the changing curve? So e.g instead of having a permanent buy/sell at e.g. 0.5 BTC/0.6 BTC, I want it to follow the curve and buy/sell at 0.3/0.4, 0.4/0.5 etc.

Similar to what this bot advertises to do:

http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&langpair=ru|en&u=http%3A//1bbot.com/forum/cat-besplatnye-strategii-ot-nashih-polzovateley-dlya-bota-1b-bot-pro-zeus/topic-127.html

Basically the bot knows the walls of the price at any given time and ping pongs between them.

Thanks!

Thats basically what the margin maker does. Try that.

[1713521254]

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[1713521254]

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[semirealdude]

Hey guys,

Leonardo newbie here. Can I use the ping pong strategy in a such a way that adapts to the changing curve? So e.g instead of having a permanent buy/sell at e.g. 0.5 BTC/0.6 BTC, I want it to follow the curve and buy/sell at 0.3/0.4, 0.4/0.5 etc.

Similar to what this bot advertises to do:

http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&langpair=ru|en&u=http%3A//1bbot.com/forum/cat-besplatnye-strategii-ot-nashih-polzovateley-dlya-bota-1b-bot-pro-zeus/topic-127.html

Basically the bot knows the walls of the price at any given time and ping pongs between them.

Thanks!

mArgin maker is an adaptive ping pong, but it adapts based on price action only. It does not consider the buy/sell walls AFAIK. (I hope this is on the developer's wishlist though!) 

If you use a larger time window for mArgin maker, it will react more slowly to market changes. If you use a small time window, it will adapt the pings and pongs more quickly, but you run the risk of buying at the top of a pump and being left with a bag.

Setting a negative value in "min. effective gain" can allow the bot to trade at a loss and continue to make more trades, or you can go in and deal with the bag manually.

I highly recommend spending time with the demo version and doing paper trades to familiarize yourself with how the different parameters affect the bot's behavior, before letting it play with your real money. The parameters depend on your trading strategy AND the particular market you are trading in.

Just remember not to blame the bot if it does what you asked it to, and you decide later that it was not a good idea  

[methodicaltrader]

Hey guys,

Leonardo newbie here. Can I use the ping pong strategy in a such a way that adapts to the changing curve? So e.g instead of having a permanent buy/sell at e.g. 0.5 BTC/0.6 BTC, I want it to follow the curve and buy/sell at 0.3/0.4, 0.4/0.5 etc.

Similar to what this bot advertises to do:

http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&langpair=ru|en&u=http%3A//1bbot.com/forum/cat-besplatnye-strategii-ot-nashih-polzovateley-dlya-bota-1b-bot-pro-zeus/topic-127.html

Basically the bot knows the walls of the price at any given time and ping pongs between them.

Thanks!

Thats basically what the margin maker does. Try that.

Oh, hah. Sorry just learning about it. So ping pong = static ping pong, margin maker = dynamic ping pong?

[leonArdo@margin]

Hey guys,

Leonardo newbie here. Can I use the ping pong strategy in a such a way that adapts to the changing curve? So e.g instead of having a permanent buy/sell at e.g. 0.5 BTC/0.6 BTC, I want it to follow the curve and buy/sell at 0.3/0.4, 0.4/0.5 etc.

Similar to what this bot advertises to do:

http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&langpair=ru|en&u=http%3A//1bbot.com/forum/cat-besplatnye-strategii-ot-nashih-polzovateley-dlya-bota-1b-bot-pro-zeus/topic-127.html

Basically the bot knows the walls of the price at any given time and ping pongs between them.

Thanks!

Thats basically what the margin maker does. Try that.

Oh, hah. Sorry just learning about it. So ping pong = static ping pong, margin maker = dynamic ping pong?

Thats one way to see it, but yes

  Rene

[methodicaltrader]

Hey guys,

Leonardo newbie here. Can I use the ping pong strategy in a such a way that adapts to the changing curve? So e.g instead of having a permanent buy/sell at e.g. 0.5 BTC/0.6 BTC, I want it to follow the curve and buy/sell at 0.3/0.4, 0.4/0.5 etc.

Similar to what this bot advertises to do:

http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&langpair=ru|en&u=http%3A//1bbot.com/forum/cat-besplatnye-strategii-ot-nashih-polzovateley-dlya-bota-1b-bot-pro-zeus/topic-127.html

Basically the bot knows the walls of the price at any given time and ping pongs between them.

Thanks!

mArgin maker is an adaptive ping pong, but it adapts based on price action only. It does not consider the buy/sell walls AFAIK. (I hope this is on the developer's wishlist though!) 

If you use a larger time window for mArgin maker, it will react more slowly to market changes. If you use a small time window, it will adapt the pings and pongs more quickly, but you run the risk of buying at the top of a pump and being left with a bag.

Setting a negative value in "min. effective gain" can allow the bot to trade at a loss and continue to make more trades, or you can go in and deal with the bag manually.

I highly recommend spending time with the demo version and doing paper trades to familiarize yourself with how the different parameters affect the bot's behavior, before letting it play with your real money. The parameters depend on your trading strategy AND the particular market you are trading in.

Just remember not to blame the bot if it does what you asked it to, and you decide later that it was not a good idea  

Thanks for the explanation...and no I won't blame it!

[semirealdude]

Leonardo team, I really appreciate the time you spend supporting your users, it is a huge added value in making me happy with my purchase. I have a couple moonshot ideas that might be overly complicated to implement and confusing to new users, but I still wanted to see what you thought 

1. A bot that makes trades based on the depth chart, similar to the way mArgin maker uses the price chart. Currently, setting up mArgin maker with a short time window can approximate this strategy, but we would be able to get better trades if the bot could recognize buy walls and sell walls. So maybe the order book can just be used as an indicator, rather than engineering something totally new.

2. A way to disregard "outliers" when calculating the trading window.

For example, here we have an inordinately long wick causing mArgin maker to set the sell price higher than I would have expected when I originally set up the bot.
https://imgur.com/DcQW4NT


If we could ignore this single wick, the buy price would be right where I want it to be:
https://imgur.com/H3FY8MV

Of course, mArgin maker will adapt in a few hours when these wicks leave the time frame that the bot is using to analyze, but in that time we are exposed to additional risk. In the first screenshot, the price may drop and I could miss a sell. In the second screenshot, there may be missed trading opportunities, which is not as bad.

So how to define an outlier that should be excluded? Maybe a simple rule could be, "the top and bottom of the red area has to touch more than 1 candlestick feature." I would rather have this option than change the buy margin and sell margin, because I like those values most of the time, whereas this is more of an exception.

A more complicated way to look at it would be to recognize when part of the red area has only 1 candlestick feature:

https://imgur.com/i3ZTBTb


https://imgur.com/Nv0zGHk

Then the user can decide, if the crossed-out area is more than 10/20/30% of the red area, disregard the crossed-out area?

Cheers!

[semirealdude]

The mArgin maker bot won't be adapted except perhaps to add a "number of cycles" parameter that some people have asked for.

Is this referring to allowing the bot to buy again after the price has dropped, even if the sell from the previous trade cycle has not been completed? +1 for that!

Would also be nice if the bot could calculate the average buy price and sell when the price = average buy price + min. effective gain, instead of just keeping the sell order from cycle 1. I suppose people will have different preferences about this issue though.

[semirealdude]

I hope it's not bad etiquette to make these all separate posts, I thought it was better for readability since they are different topics.

What conditions will make the bot skip replacing orders? Is there some setting that might be preventing the bot from canceling the old order and placing another at the new price level?

https://imgur.com/IfdVh8s

Thanks

[Amaralluis]

The mArgin maker bot won't be adapted except perhaps to add a "number of cycles" parameter that some people have asked for.

Is this referring to allowing the bot to buy again after the price has dropped, even if the sell from the previous trade cycle has not been completed? +1 for that!

Would also be nice if the bot could calculate the average buy price and sell when the price = average buy price + min. effective gain, instead of just keeping the sell order from cycle 1. I suppose people will have different preferences about this issue though.

I think its more like that we can set up how many cycles we wish the bot to run with the current strategy.

[Amaralluis]

I hope it's not bad etiquette to make these all separate posts, I thought it was better for readability since they are different topics.

What conditions will make the bot skip replacing orders? Is there some setting that might be preventing the bot from canceling the old order and placing another at the new price level?



Thanks

Look at the red light dotted line on the graph display. That is the sell margin that you set up on your strategy.


You have set your margin maker to go back 2.61 hours with a sell margin of 50%.
Because none of the candlesticks went above or below the sell margin window there is no need to replace the order because it would be for the same amount.

[semirealdude]

I hope it's not bad etiquette to make these all separate posts, I thought it was better for readability since they are different topics.

What conditions will make the bot skip replacing orders? Is there some setting that might be preventing the bot from canceling the old order and placing another at the new price level?

https://imgur.com/IfdVh8s

Thanks

Look at the red light dotted line on the graph display. That is the sell margin that you set up on your strategy.


You have set your margin maker to go back 2.61 hours with a sell margin of 50%.
Because none of the candlesticks went above or below the sell margin window there is no need to replace the order because it would be for the same amount.

But the bot is in a buy state. The buy window changed from 11 pm to 11 am, but it never replaced the old buy order with one at the new buy margin.

[leonArdo@margin]

I hope it's not bad etiquette to make these all separate posts, I thought it was better for readability since they are different topics.

What conditions will make the bot skip replacing orders? Is there some setting that might be preventing the bot from canceling the old order and placing another at the new price level?



Thanks

Look at the red light dotted line on the graph display. That is the sell margin that you set up on your strategy.

@Amaralluis , thanks for helping out. This is very much appreciated

  Rene

[leonArdo@margin]

Leonardo team, I really appreciate the time you spend supporting your users, it is a huge added value in making me happy with my purchase. I have a couple moonshot ideas that might be overly complicated to implement and confusing to new users, but I still wanted to see what you thought 

1. A bot that makes trades based on the depth chart, similar to the way mArgin maker uses the price chart. Currently, setting up mArgin maker with a short time window can approximate this strategy, but we would be able to get better trades if the bot could recognize buy walls and sell walls. So maybe the order book can just be used as an indicator, rather than engineering something totally new.

2. A way to disregard "outliers" when calculating the trading window.

For example, here we have an inordinately long wick causing mArgin maker to set the sell price higher than I would have expected when I originally set up the bot.



If we could ignore this single wick, the buy price would be right where I want it to be:


Of course, mArgin maker will adapt in a few hours when these wicks leave the time frame that the bot is using to analyze, but in that time we are exposed to additional risk. In the first screenshot, the price may drop and I could miss a sell. In the second screenshot, there may be missed trading opportunities, which is not as bad.

So how to define an outlier that should be excluded? Maybe a simple rule could be, "the top and bottom of the red area has to touch more than 1 candlestick feature." I would rather have this option than change the buy margin and sell margin, because I like those values most of the time, whereas this is more of an exception.

A more complicated way to look at it would be to recognize when part of the red area has only 1 candlestick feature:






Then the user can decide, if the crossed-out area is more than 10/20/30% of the red area, disregard the crossed-out area?

Cheers!

We like moonshot ideas! Keep em coming. It is just a matter of resources on our side.
Most of the ideas are already on our wishlist btw.   But we re open on hearing more!

Thanks for your support.

  Rene

 

[semirealdude]

I hope it's not bad etiquette to make these all separate posts, I thought it was better for readability since they are different topics.

What conditions will make the bot skip replacing orders? Is there some setting that might be preventing the bot from canceling the old order and placing another at the new price level?

https://imgur.com/IfdVh8s

Thanks

Look at the red light dotted line on the graph display. That is the sell margin that you set up on your strategy.

@Amaralluis , thanks for helping out. This is very much appreciated

  Rene

I'd still like some clarification on this. My bot was in a buy state, not sell state, and the candlesticks very clearly went out of the buy range since the order was placed. So I'm still missing something. https://imgur.com/IfdVh8s

[leonArdo@margin]

I hope it's not bad etiquette to make these all separate posts, I thought it was better for readability since they are different topics.

What conditions will make the bot skip replacing orders? Is there some setting that might be preventing the bot from canceling the old order and placing another at the new price level?



Thanks

Look at the red light dotted line on the graph display. That is the sell margin that you set up on your strategy.

@Amaralluis , thanks for helping out. This is very much appreciated

  Rene

I'd still like some clarification on this. My bot was in a buy state, not sell state, and the candlesticks very clearly went out of the buy range since the order was placed. So I'm still missing something. https://imgur.com/IfdVh8s

Hi,

from the screenshot it looks like your strategy setup was set up to buy at a much lower price range.
See the blue horizontal arrow below the price of 148. The augmentation on top is the future setup, when you start and stop the strategy or the order gets replaced.
Hope thats helps!

  Rene

[Amaralluis]

I hope it's not bad etiquette to make these all separate posts, I thought it was better for readability since they are different topics.

What conditions will make the bot skip replacing orders? Is there some setting that might be preventing the bot from canceling the old order and placing another at the new price level?



Thanks

Look at the red light dotted line on the graph display. That is the sell margin that you set up on your strategy.

@Amaralluis , thanks for helping out. This is very much appreciated

  Rene

I'd still like some clarification on this. My bot was in a buy state, not sell state, and the candlesticks very clearly went out of the buy range since the order was placed. So I'm still missing something. https://imgur.com/IfdVh8s

Did you change any of the settings in the addition options for the strategy?

If you didnt I think thats a bug. I have seen this problem happen before where the bot gets stuck and does not replace the buy order.
The only option is to stop the strategy and start it again.
I am not sure why it happens but I am wondering if at some point after the buy order was placed and the price of the coin increase that you didnt have enough btc anymore to cover the new price so the bot just places the same order.... Im not sure.

[leonArdo@margin]

Leonardo team, I really appreciate the time you spend supporting your users, it is a huge added value in making me happy with my purchase. I have a couple moonshot ideas that might be overly complicated to implement and confusing to new users, but I still wanted to see what you thought 

1. A bot that makes trades based on the depth chart, similar to the way mArgin maker uses the price chart. Currently, setting up mArgin maker with a short time window can approximate this strategy, but we would be able to get better trades if the bot could recognize buy walls and sell walls. So maybe the order book can just be used as an indicator, rather than engineering something totally new.

2. A way to disregard "outliers" when calculating the trading window.

For example, here we have an inordinately long wick causing mArgin maker to set the sell price higher than I would have expected when I originally set up the bot.



If we could ignore this single wick, the buy price would be right where I want it to be:


Of course, mArgin maker will adapt in a few hours when these wicks leave the time frame that the bot is using to analyze, but in that time we are exposed to additional risk. In the first screenshot, the price may drop and I could miss a sell. In the second screenshot, there may be missed trading opportunities, which is not as bad.

So how to define an outlier that should be excluded? Maybe a simple rule could be, "the top and bottom of the red area has to touch more than 1 candlestick feature." I would rather have this option than change the buy margin and sell margin, because I like those values most of the time, whereas this is more of an exception.

A more complicated way to look at it would be to recognize when part of the red area has only 1 candlestick feature:






Then the user can decide, if the crossed-out area is more than 10/20/30% of the red area, disregard the crossed-out area?

Cheers!

Hi,

Just to add to what Rene said.

With this one

1. A bot that makes trades based on the depth chart, similar to the way mArgin maker uses the price chart. Currently, setting up mArgin maker with a short time window can approximate this strategy, but we would be able to get better trades if the bot could recognize buy walls and sell walls. So maybe the order book can just be used as an indicator, rather than engineering something totally new.

I can definitely imagine a new volume based bot in a future release. Good point.

2. A way to disregard "outliers" when calculating the trading window.

Whereas with this I don't see us adding this feature to the mArgin maker bot. As we will have many bots in the future I think that overly complicating the mArgin maker bot is not something I's like to do. It's not that the idea is a bad, it's not, but it would add yet another parameter that would need to be set and which would definitely complicate understanding of the bot.

Thanks for your kind words!

Best wishes,
Jonathan

[leonArdo@margin]

I hope it's not bad etiquette to make these all separate posts, I thought it was better for readability since they are different topics.

What conditions will make the bot skip replacing orders? Is there some setting that might be preventing the bot from canceling the old order and placing another at the new price level?



Thanks

Look at the red light dotted line on the graph display. That is the sell margin that you set up on your strategy.

@Amaralluis , thanks for helping out. This is very much appreciated

  Rene

I'd still like some clarification on this. My bot was in a buy state, not sell state, and the candlesticks very clearly went out of the buy range since the order was placed. So I'm still missing something. https://imgur.com/IfdVh8s

Hi semirealdude,

Thanks for getting touch.

The reason your buy order isn't being updated is because it is constrained by the previous sell order that went through. To ensure the Min effective gain you specified the buy price cannot be set any higher and therefore the bot hasn't updated the order. Updating would simply place it back at the same price.

I hope that is clear.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

[defvader]

As we will have many bots in the future I think that overly complicating the mArgin maker bot is not something I's like to do. It's not that the idea is a bad, it's not, but it would add yet another parameter that would need to be set and which would definitely complicate understanding of the bot.

Many of us would like to see additions such as this precisely because you have done such a fantastic job with the creation of Market Maker. Combine MM with a trend watcher and a volume based indicator and it would be an exceptionally powerful tool.  As always, I look forward to seeing what the future of leonArdo holds for us!

[semirealdude]

I hope it's not bad etiquette to make these all separate posts, I thought it was better for readability since they are different topics.

What conditions will make the bot skip replacing orders? Is there some setting that might be preventing the bot from canceling the old order and placing another at the new price level?

https://imgur.com/IfdVh8s

Thanks

Hi semirealdude,

Thanks for getting touch.

The reason your buy order isn't being updated is because it is constrained by the previous sell order that went through. To ensure the Min effective gain you specified the buy price cannot be set any higher and therefore the bot hasn't updated the order. Updating would simply place it back at the same price.

I hope that is clear.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

I see, then here is another benefit of setting min effective gain to a negative value! Maybe it's worth adding this information to the tooltip? I only knew min. effective gain came into play between buy and sell, hadn't thought of this situation between a sell and the next buy.

As we will have many bots in the future I think that overly complicating the mArgin maker bot is not something I's like to do. It's not that the idea is a bad, it's not, but it would add yet another parameter that would need to be set and which would definitely complicate understanding of the bot.

Fair enough. Does leonArdo have a wiki? Do you worry it will be too much more to manage? The tooltips are well-written, but I'm guessing a wiki with more in-depth explanation could save you some time when new bots/features come out.

I would like if the buy/sell margin % could be set to a wider range (>50 and perhaps negative values as another user mentioned). When there is a downtrend (or if one is just risk-averse) it can be useful to set buy margin % to 5 or less and set sell margin % above 50. There is already a warning when the bot predicts a negative effective gain...

Cheers