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Author Topic: margin - Bitcoin Trading Bot: Binance, Coinbase Pro, Bittrex, HitBTC, Bitfinex..  (Read 255465 times)
Amaralluis
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February 23, 2018, 03:40:23 PM
 #3881

Something to consider that the main rival is Profitrailer is not subscription based.
Not cheap but its a one time purchase per exchange and now it become more interesting for new customers.
They will always look for a one time purchase than a subscription model.

Leonardo/Margin is not yet at a level for a subscription model.
A better strategy would be perhaps to charge one time fee per component, ie per exchange, per bot, per indicator, etc.

But good luck with the subscription model. I will take advantage of the free 6 months and then look at options at the time.




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February 23, 2018, 04:33:02 PM
 #3882

Update to the announcement

After discussing what we could do for our Hero early adopter customers, in recognition of the fact that you guys got us to this point, we have decided to give a special status of Hero to every leonArdo customer going forward. It won't just be that you have a Hero badge in your version of margin, but it entitles you to a 50% discount on all future margin terminal subscription payments. The offer will kick in if you sign up for a subscription within a month of your free period ending.

We wanted to also make the point that switching to a subscription based model is absolutely necessary for us. We are a real company, with real employees who have families and mortgages and have to be paid at the end of each month. If the market only saw month on month growth then it might be possible to survive by sticking to the lifetime license model, but this is not the case. Catastrophic events like what happened in mid January, where a lot of cryptos lost up to 70% of their value, have a huge effect on our revenue. This puts everything we have built up in danger and if not dealt with could mean us having to close for business - which would also mean no updates for leonArdo. This was not a decision we took lightly, rather one we couldn't avoid.


Thank you Jonathan, really appreciate this offer! I think the change to a subscription model is reasonable; from a business perspective, people need to understand a few key points:

1) If the model is a one-time charge, the business can only survive on the following situations:

1.1) Make it really expensive, so you have enough savings to keep it alive for some time. However, it may not be successful, as not many people will be willing to pay the price, and the savings will not last forever.

1.2) Charge for updates, as some big software companies used to do. May not please everyone, just like a subscription-based model.

1.3) Charge for support, as some big software companies. Not really applicable for this business, it's usually sustainable only for corporations with big customers, that sign long-term support contracts.

1.4) Ensure you have a constantly growing user base. I don't think this is a reality for almost any business; the user base will flat out at some point.


2) Most businesses are, therefore, changing their business models to a subscription-based one. Look at Microsoft and Google, for instance... It ensures the business survives, as long as the price is fair, they commit to quality and constant updates, and provide good support. If they offer all that, it may be beneficial to the customer, as he can expect future improvements and have a reason to keep demanding them.

So far Margin Software has been providing all that, so I expect it will continue (and even improve) with the change. The price and conditions can be discussed, of course, but the model makes total sense for me. And I think they have been fair with the transition conditions offered for existing, early-adopter customers.
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February 23, 2018, 04:55:17 PM
 #3883

Something to consider that the main rival is Profitrailer is not subscription based.
Not cheap but its a one time purchase per exchange and now it become more interesting for new customers.
They will always look for a one time purchase than a subscription model.

Leonardo/Margin is not yet at a level for a subscription model.
A better strategy would be perhaps to charge one time fee per component, ie per exchange, per bot, per indicator, etc.

But good luck with the subscription model. I will take advantage of the free 6 months and then look at options at the time.

Really?  Shocked

A hand scripted configuration for $300 to $900?

Great instructions. I see Java is a requirement, is that secure?
https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@demonsthenes/profit-trailer-and-you-a-newbie-guide-to-setting-up-profit-trailer

I am somewhat concerned about the these instructions however.
"Anyway, the point is, if you don't have a tech savvy person handy, you could be left with, at best, the program downloaded but unable to start it or at worst, out a nice chunk of your crypto because of failing to understand EXACTLY what is needed to make the bot operate. Any suggestions on how to make this guide more complete, such as adding specific exchange instructions would be most appreciated."

At this point I think a bird-in-the hand.. and see how things look in six months to a year.

Bucket List Item #10: Buy and sell a WALL with margin.
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February 23, 2018, 05:46:58 PM
 #3884

Update to the announcement

After discussing what we could do for our Hero early adopter customers, in recognition of the fact that you guys got us to this point, we have decided to give a special status of Hero to every leonArdo customer going forward. It won't just be that you have a Hero badge in your version of margin, but it entitles you to a 50% discount on all future margin terminal subscription payments. The offer will kick in if you sign up for a subscription within a month of your free period ending.

We wanted to also make the point that switching to a subscription based model is absolutely necessary for us. We are a real company, with real employees who have families and mortgages and have to be paid at the end of each month. If the market only saw month on month growth then it might be possible to survive by sticking to the lifetime license model, but this is not the case. Catastrophic events like what happened in mid January, where a lot of cryptos lost up to 70% of their value, have a huge effect on our revenue. This puts everything we have built up in danger and if not dealt with could mean us having to close for business - which would also mean no updates for leonArdo. This was not a decision we took lightly, rather one we couldn't avoid.



Wait.... am I the only one that leonArdo 3.8.0 is not working (iMac 3.1 GHz Intel Core i5; IOS 10.10.5) on Binance  Huh.  My Bittrex exchange works sometimes, but Binance is NOT usable for Bot Trading at all. The Binance Bots ALWAYS stop within a few hours due to errors (you have my logs).

So, how do I move ahead with leonArdo 3.8.X (2 exchanges) when it doesn't work?  Wait for more updates?  Do you thing the Dev's can fix it  Huh  There are many things I could go on with, but it still comes back to "it doesn't work 24/7 or at least overnight".

Since I'm a HEAC, I will stay testing each update until the END or I just give up!
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February 23, 2018, 05:56:21 PM
 #3885

Hey Hacky,

couple points there. Yes, I was glad but also a bit surprised to hear the Pi being recommended as the ideal platform but OTOH, the thing about such SBCs, as you've hinted at, is that they are so affordable that you can use them as single-purpose machines which helps a lot with a lot of applications, including leonArdo. We definitely don't recommend doing anything besides running leonArdo on a Pi.

Yeah, i just wanted to clear things a bit up from my side of experience (and even tell, that not every small sized X86_64 board might really fit depending on the usage). Wink

I have the nagging feeling, however, that us strongly recommending swapspace for the Pi also has something to do with things running so smoothly there. We're still seeing those memory fragmentation issues that drive up memory usage over time, so having basically unlimited swap space will help on every machine but on the Pi, it's an absolute necessity to have ample swap space. So bottom line, just install swapspace when running leonArdo, because why not.

Well, i personally thought that having at least some bits of swapspace would be or should be common sense on linux machines at all, except your physical ram exceeds your peak usage by far (for example, if you have 64 or 128gig of ram, you might be happy w/o swap at all, but if you have 32gig at a desktop, having additional 16gig of swap will keep you from getting trouble. Wink)

The Pi 1 and Zero you mentioned don't support ARMv7, so they don't run leonArdo anyway! But yes, part of the reason why we didn't even consider them is the fact that the resources will be even more restricted and the Pi 3 is really affordable anyway. I haven't looked into the RK3399 you mentioned but if you're looking for a board that you can buy right now, the Banana Pi M2 and M3 have SATA and they're proven to run leonArdo. I also just got a Rock64 on my desk and while I haven't gotten around to testing leonArdo on it, with Gigabit Ethernet and eMMC I think it's quite promising. Excited to try it anyway!
Well, i have a banana pi M1 sitting here, but with only 1 gig of ram, i will probably not have to much fun with leonArdo on it. Maybe i will try it just for fun and see how far i will come with it.

The board i had mostly in my mind as i talked about RK3399 SBCs was the upcoming Firefly-RK3399 which you can find over here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1771382379/firefly-rk3399-six-core-64-bit-high-performance-pl

I'm very interested in this particular board because it seems to be a pretty powerful little machine. But sadly, somewhat costly too.

General note in case anyone's still reading: we're always interested in hearing your stories with different setups, especially when they're ARM! But be aware that ARM is such a diverse ecosystem that you never know how things turn out and while we want to hear how things go for you, we can't really support you with anything but the Raspberry Pi. So ARM is very much a "only if you know what you're doing" kind of affair! Smiley

Best,

Christian


Overall, as i said above, i just wanted to clear things a bit up, because just saying that a Raspi will be a good setup seemed a bit short on the informational side at all. But i don't wanted to say it's a bad idea, just that you should know at least a bit more about what leonArdo needs anyway... And that most of that is not only big fat CPU and tons of RAM but even a lot of I/O capabilities, especially on the networking side. Wink (Which is a point where i restrict myself on my setup because leonArdo not only uses the network for the uplink to the exchange APIs but even for any and all display usage _and_ any inputs).

Well, i think, it's a good thing that we put some more light on that topic from different sides and that might actually help some people to get the right choice for their setup. Wink

Greetings,

hacky

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February 23, 2018, 06:32:22 PM
 #3886

I remember reading about Margin implementing 'Strategy Editor' in this thread many pages ago...

Has this been implemented? If not, any idea when?

Thanks!
hackbyte
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February 23, 2018, 07:23:12 PM
 #3887

leonArdo is rebranding as ...



We are excited to announce the upcoming rebranding of leonArdo as margin and the release of a new website. This entails a number of changes for our existing hero customers and we want to run through them here.

We will switch the existing early adopter lifetime license model to a subscription-based model. Although we saw incredible growth last year and grew our team to 9 people, in order to be able to add all the great features we have in our pipeline and maintain a sustainable software company, necessitates this change.


Hum .. while i can see why this change is necessary, it will put me "out of the game" sadly.

Considering my actual holdings and volumes i usually do and the taxes i will have to pay if i reach anything near the point where i could afford the payments for the new subscription model, it would mean that i have to quadruple my holdings for the very first three months - each month! - to just get to the point where i could afford the payment for the license compared to what i have now.

It's a bit sad, not to say very sad. But .. well i can understand it and can see why you need to switch to that model. (To be real, i always wondered how the whole thing could work for you at all _and_ even make you able to pay for any additional staff. Wink )

We will see how things go forward.

But i have a important question nonetheless. Will there be any way to get at least updates to API changes on the existing supported leonArdo exchanges at all?

Even if that will mean we have to pay for updates, that would help a lot for us existing customers. Wink

Greetings,

hacky

P.s.: If you wonder about taxes, i'm a german citizen and while most of us nearly could ignore taxes at all, even over here, things change and it is already clear for us germans, that taxes are the same as if we just would do "classical" forex trading.. Which makes things not just pricey but even means that you need to have some distinct holdings and usual volumes (incl profits) in the first place... Well, luckily, as long as you stay below a minimum profit of 600 euros per year, you don't need to pay tax on this at all .... but, in december 2017 i had to be very careful to _not_ get over that point......... And it was leonArdo which enabled me to get to that point in the first place.. Wink

P.p.s.: Good luck to margin software and your staff anyways! It's still a very great product and i still consider it to be a professional class software. Wink

Cryptocurrency Mining, Gambling, Lending, Trading, Staking .. So much to do with them, since 2010!
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Lust auf klönschnack? Schau bei uns rein im Cryptotalk (D-A-CH+EU) unter https://t.me/cryptotalkgerman
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February 23, 2018, 09:27:13 PM
 #3888

Is the new subscription based software based on Leonardo, or is it completely new, especially from the GUI perspective?
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February 23, 2018, 09:37:21 PM
 #3889

Update to the announcement

After discussing what we could do for our Hero early adopter customers, in recognition of the fact that you guys got us to this point, we have decided to give a special status of Hero to every leonArdo customer going forward. It won't just be that you have a Hero badge in your version of margin, but it entitles you to a 50% discount on all future margin terminal subscription payments. The offer will kick in if you sign up for a subscription within a month of your free period ending.

We wanted to also make the point that switching to a subscription based model is absolutely necessary for us. We are a real company, with real employees who have families and mortgages and have to be paid at the end of each month. If the market only saw month on month growth then it might be possible to survive by sticking to the lifetime license model, but this is not the case. Catastrophic events like what happened in mid January, where a lot of cryptos lost up to 70% of their value, have a huge effect on our revenue. This puts everything we have built up in danger and if not dealt with could mean us having to close for business - which would also mean no updates for leonArdo. This was not a decision we took lightly, rather one we couldn't avoid.



I can accept this. Love to support the project, it's wonderful.

Will Margin be a desktop application or a web app?
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February 24, 2018, 04:41:52 AM
 #3890

I'm happy for you guys to expand and see the need to change up. The new features this will bring will be amazing I'm sure, you wouldn't do it otherwise.

While I will not be joining in on this journey I am happy to stay on the old leonArdo system because I am a small time investor and do not see a subscription model working for me (I'm not a Hero early adopter, just normal early adopter).
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February 24, 2018, 10:07:14 AM
 #3891

I remember reading about Margin implementing 'Strategy Editor' in this thread many pages ago...

Has this been implemented? If not, any idea when?

Thanks!

No, not yet. But it still is in our plans.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

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February 24, 2018, 10:08:26 AM
 #3892

I'm happy for you guys to expand and see the need to change up. The new features this will bring will be amazing I'm sure, you wouldn't do it otherwise.

While I will not be joining in on this journey I am happy to stay on the old leonArdo system because I am a small time investor and do not see a subscription model working for me (I'm not a Hero early adopter, just normal early adopter).

Thanks for your support!

And it seems like there was some confusion. All our leonArdo customers are considered Hero early adopter customers.

So you are a Hero!

Jonathan

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February 24, 2018, 10:10:47 AM
 #3893

leonArdo is rebranding as ...



We are excited to announce the upcoming rebranding of leonArdo as margin and the release of a new website. This entails a number of changes for our existing hero customers and we want to run through them here.

We will switch the existing early adopter lifetime license model to a subscription-based model. Although we saw incredible growth last year and grew our team to 9 people, in order to be able to add all the great features we have in our pipeline and maintain a sustainable software company, necessitates this change.


Hum .. while i can see why this change is necessary, it will put me "out of the game" sadly.

Considering my actual holdings and volumes i usually do and the taxes i will have to pay if i reach anything near the point where i could afford the payments for the new subscription model, it would mean that i have to quadruple my holdings for the very first three months - each month! - to just get to the point where i could afford the payment for the license compared to what i have now.

It's a bit sad, not to say very sad. But .. well i can understand it and can see why you need to switch to that model. (To be real, i always wondered how the whole thing could work for you at all _and_ even make you able to pay for any additional staff. Wink )

We will see how things go forward.

But i have a important question nonetheless. Will there be any way to get at least updates to API changes on the existing supported leonArdo exchanges at all?

Even if that will mean we have to pay for updates, that would help a lot for us existing customers. Wink

Greetings,

hacky

P.s.: If you wonder about taxes, i'm a german citizen and while most of us nearly could ignore taxes at all, even over here, things change and it is already clear for us germans, that taxes are the same as if we just would do "classical" forex trading.. Which makes things not just pricey but even means that you need to have some distinct holdings and usual volumes (incl profits) in the first place... Well, luckily, as long as you stay below a minimum profit of 600 euros per year, you don't need to pay tax on this at all .... but, in december 2017 i had to be very careful to _not_ get over that point......... And it was leonArdo which enabled me to get to that point in the first place.. Wink

P.p.s.: Good luck to margin software and your staff anyways! It's still a very great product and i still consider it to be a professional class software. Wink

Hi Hacky,

Thanks for your support and understanding.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

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February 24, 2018, 10:12:51 AM
 #3894

Update to the announcement

After discussing what we could do for our Hero early adopter customers, in recognition of the fact that you guys got us to this point, we have decided to give a special status of Hero to every leonArdo customer going forward. It won't just be that you have a Hero badge in your version of margin, but it entitles you to a 50% discount on all future margin terminal subscription payments. The offer will kick in if you sign up for a subscription within a month of your free period ending.

We wanted to also make the point that switching to a subscription based model is absolutely necessary for us. We are a real company, with real employees who have families and mortgages and have to be paid at the end of each month. If the market only saw month on month growth then it might be possible to survive by sticking to the lifetime license model, but this is not the case. Catastrophic events like what happened in mid January, where a lot of cryptos lost up to 70% of their value, have a huge effect on our revenue. This puts everything we have built up in danger and if not dealt with could mean us having to close for business - which would also mean no updates for leonArdo. This was not a decision we took lightly, rather one we couldn't avoid.



I can accept this. Love to support the project, it's wonderful.

Will Margin be a desktop application or a web app?

margin will remain a desktop application. But the website supporting it will be much more full featured and allow you to add new exchange keys and immediately have them activated for example.

Thanks for your support!!

Jonathan

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February 24, 2018, 10:17:22 AM
 #3895

doesnt surprise me they are switching to a subscription based model, most other bots are like this....makes sense that they have to keep money coming in to keep supporting development

when will this take effect?

Hi bitChipper,

We expect to switch in the next couple of weeks.

Here are the details: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1467939.msg30843316#msg30843316

Best wishes,
Jonathan

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February 24, 2018, 10:22:01 AM
 #3896

Is the new subscription based software based on Leonardo, or is it completely new, especially from the GUI perspective?

margin is an evolution of leonArdo and remains a desktop application.

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February 24, 2018, 10:24:23 AM
 #3897

Update to the announcement

After discussing what we could do for our Hero early adopter customers, in recognition of the fact that you guys got us to this point, we have decided to give a special status of Hero to every leonArdo customer going forward. It won't just be that you have a Hero badge in your version of margin, but it entitles you to a 50% discount on all future margin terminal subscription payments. The offer will kick in if you sign up for a subscription within a month of your free period ending.

We wanted to also make the point that switching to a subscription based model is absolutely necessary for us. We are a real company, with real employees who have families and mortgages and have to be paid at the end of each month. If the market only saw month on month growth then it might be possible to survive by sticking to the lifetime license model, but this is not the case. Catastrophic events like what happened in mid January, where a lot of cryptos lost up to 70% of their value, have a huge effect on our revenue. This puts everything we have built up in danger and if not dealt with could mean us having to close for business - which would also mean no updates for leonArdo. This was not a decision we took lightly, rather one we couldn't avoid.



Wait.... am I the only one that leonArdo 3.8.0 is not working (iMac 3.1 GHz Intel Core i5; IOS 10.10.5) on Binance  Huh.  My Bittrex exchange works sometimes, but Binance is NOT usable for Bot Trading at all. The Binance Bots ALWAYS stop within a few hours due to errors (you have my logs).

So, how do I move ahead with leonArdo 3.8.X (2 exchanges) when it doesn't work?  Wait for more updates?  Do you thing the Dev's can fix it  Huh  There are many things I could go on with, but it still comes back to "it doesn't work 24/7 or at least overnight".

Since I'm a HEAC, I will stay testing each update until the END or I just give up!

Hi,

Yes, it works overnight and the vast majority of customers do not have the issues you are describing here.

I know you have been in touch with support but I would encourage you to keep in contact and we will try to figure out why you have the issue you do.

Best wishes
Jonathan

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February 24, 2018, 10:25:57 AM
 #3898

Update to the announcement

After discussing what we could do for our Hero early adopter customers, in recognition of the fact that you guys got us to this point, we have decided to give a special status of Hero to every leonArdo customer going forward. It won't just be that you have a Hero badge in your version of margin, but it entitles you to a 50% discount on all future margin terminal subscription payments. The offer will kick in if you sign up for a subscription within a month of your free period ending.

We wanted to also make the point that switching to a subscription based model is absolutely necessary for us. We are a real company, with real employees who have families and mortgages and have to be paid at the end of each month. If the market only saw month on month growth then it might be possible to survive by sticking to the lifetime license model, but this is not the case. Catastrophic events like what happened in mid January, where a lot of cryptos lost up to 70% of their value, have a huge effect on our revenue. This puts everything we have built up in danger and if not dealt with could mean us having to close for business - which would also mean no updates for leonArdo. This was not a decision we took lightly, rather one we couldn't avoid.



I would like to know who they're your Hero early adopter customers, what's your plan for existing customers?
btw I already have license for bittrex.

You are also a Hero then!

All leonArdo customers are Smiley

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February 24, 2018, 10:28:16 AM
 #3899

What is a "Hero early adopter customers"? Is that all existing Leonardo customers?

Also, what is the subscription price for those who needs more than $3k limit? I can't seem to find any info on the new model on your website...

Thank you.



All leonArdo customers are Heroes!

If you have a balance of over 3K and want to use margin then you need the Standard plan.

Details of the plans are in our announcement post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1467939.msg30843316#msg30843316

Best wishes,
Jonathan

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February 24, 2018, 02:37:37 PM
 #3900

This week I have added Binance to my account (yes, still possible). In Windows 10 x64 I only get "credential error" while in Raspberry it works immediately. Pls, verify there is a bug in the Windows version (3.8.0) and correct it.

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