Why would anyone buy this DAO crap?

[r0ach]

<r0ach> we are going into a liquidity crunch where liquid cash is the most valuable asset (fiat paper not in a bank, bitcoin, gold, etc) and stocks are going to crash.  Yet these guys are investing in something with the fundamental of a stock, except it has no product, no revenue, no employees, no business, no nothing.

<r0ach> so even if they manage to get that put together and develop something, it's still the same thing as buying any random stock

<r0ach> and slock.it is pointless

You would be far better off buying something on the real stock market where you can personally verify some type of fundamentals, but all of those are going to crash anyway.

[1713554962]

1713554962

[stoat]

I'm sure your anti semitic rants will have institutional investors rushing to buy bitcoin...or litecoin...or any crypto that isn't ethereum

[r0ach]

I'm sure your anti semitic rants will have institutional investors rushing to buy bitcoin...or litecoin...or any crypto that isn't ethereum

When all else fails, pull the "omg you are not politically correct" card!  Political correctness (aka Marxism) is dead.  Nationalism is on the rise all over the US and Europe.  Why do you think the US is electing Trump?  Why do you think France is electing this person below?

Sooooo, yea, you can cry and attempt to use as much Marxist propaganda as you like, but that's not going to stop any of these people like Soros, Bernanke, and other members of that ethnocentric mafia from being put in front of firing squads for financial terrorism.  Bankers are toast and running scared, the EU will collapse, and r0ach will throw out the Eth scammers and make Bitcoin great again.

The next French presidential election has first round voting in just 11 months time. The polls consistently indicate that Marine Le Pen, the leader of the nationalist Front National party, has 30% support. That puts her in either first or second place, depending who runs against her.

This a big deal. The Front National has a history of overt racism and anti-semitism – under Jean Marie Le Pen, Marine’s father – even if it claims that those days are behind it.

Le Pen wants to take France out of the euro and throw up trade barriers to protect French industry. If that happened then, effectively, the EU project would be dead in the water.

[target]

People are buying bitcoin as well. its almost like virtual company with no thing no employees.
People have already invested so that's it we'd all have to wait for how it would turn out as DAO seem to be revolutionary  for the crypto community.

[ProfessionalGoogler]

More fud from this guy. 

[stoat]

I'm sure your anti semitic rants will have institutional investors rushing to buy bitcoin...or litecoin...or any crypto that isn't ethereum

When all else fails, pull the "omg you are not politically correct" card!  Political correctness (aka Marxism) is dead.  Nationalism is on the rise all over the US and Europe.  Why do you think the US is electing Trump?  Why do you think France is electing this person below?

Sooooo, yea, you can cry and attempt to use as much Marxist propaganda as you like, but that's not going to stop any of these people like Soros, Bernanke, and other members of that ethnocentric mafia from being put in front of firing squads for financial terrorism.  Bankers are toast and running scared, the EU will collapse, and r0ach will throw out the Eth scammers and make Bitcoin great again.

The next French presidential election has first round voting in just 11 months time. The polls consistently indicate that Marine Le Pen, the leader of the nationalist Front National party, has 30% support. That puts her in either first or second place, depending who runs against her.

This a big deal. The Front National has a history of overt racism and anti-semitism – under Jean Marie Le Pen, Marine’s father – even if it claims that those days are behind it.

Le Pen wants to take France out of the euro and throw up trade barriers to protect French industry. If that happened then, effectively, the EU project would be dead in the water.

Awsome dude👍

Good to see that you can think for yourself and not swallow propaganda mindlessly.

Have an awesome time!

[Wosterlee]

Ethereum has some ex-Goldman Sachs employees in their team, which is a big red flag for me. Most likely it is set up by the banks to steal all the little peoples BTC, because it will reach mainstream next year. Look at all those paid Ether shills like David Seaman, does it ring any bells? Nobody can explain the big rise of Ethereum at the beginning of the year. These banksters have unlimited fiat at their disposal to pump up the price creating FOMO and evoking greed, making people irrational and act like sheep.

[mandica]

Ethereum has some ex-Goldman Sachs employees in their team, which is a big red flag for me. Most likely it is set up by the banks to steal all the little peoples BTC, because it will reach mainstream next year. Look at all those paid Ether shills like David Seaman, does it ring any bells? Nobody can explain the big rise of Ethereum at the beginning of the year. These banksters have unlimited fiat at their disposal to pump up the price creating FOMO and evoking greed, making people irrational and act like sheep.

Do you mean the banks bought the Ethereum from the beginning of the year? Do you think it is bad? If this Etheruem fails, we can create another one.

[Netnox]

When will dao be available for trading?

[electronicash]

DAO seem presented to users like its a very useful token, i myself invested just few ETH on bittrex.

When will dao be available for trading?

are they suppose to be ready for trading when its released on exchange sites?

[Sark]

The DAO is something that we don't really know what it is.

It will have $100m+ worth of crypto that will get spent however its members vote. I have no idea what that will lead to, but it is a fascinating social and financial experiment.

The tokens will be transferable once the sale ends at the end of May. I'm sure most of the major crypto exchanges will provide markets for them given the amount of money involved.

[Ayers]

i think because of one thing only, because of hype, hype is everything in thiw world, fish follow medium fish which follow whale and whale generate hype versus various trend with big investsment, it's a chin of hype i think

[meme magic]

How about an automated way to lock up 10% of the tokens for a month while the bar raises high enough to drop the eth hammer 30% harder?

Oh wait no, thats a reason to sell it.

[tj303]

Simple.
Buy in before the price rises 50% by the end of the ico.
Cash out afterward with a guaranteed split (as stated in the terms) for instant 50% profit

[BitFomo]

Simple.
Buy in before the price rises 50% by the end of the ico.
Cash out afterward with a guaranteed split (as stated in the terms) for instant 50% profit

FAIL! you'll see hahaha. You should read more, dude.

[codehtcmail]

Simple.
Buy in before the price rises 50% by the end of the ico.
Cash out afterward with a guaranteed split (as stated in the terms) for instant 50% profit

An easy 50% instant profit ? hard to believe, I am not doubting you, I am doubting DAO.

[sandiman]

I'm sure your anti semitic rants will have institutional investors rushing to buy bitcoin...or litecoin...or any crypto that isn't ethereum

When all else fails, pull the "omg you are not politically correct" card!  Political correctness (aka Marxism) is dead.  Nationalism is on the rise all over the US and Europe.  Why do you think the US is electing Trump?  Why do you think France is electing this person below?

Sooooo, yea, you can cry and attempt to use as much Marxist propaganda as you like, but that's not going to stop any of these people like Soros, Bernanke, and other members of that ethnocentric mafia from being put in front of firing squads for financial terrorism.  Bankers are toast and running scared, the EU will collapse, and r0ach will throw out the Eth scammers and make Bitcoin great again.

The next French presidential election has first round voting in just 11 months time. The polls consistently indicate that Marine Le Pen, the leader of the nationalist Front National party, has 30% support. That puts her in either first or second place, depending who runs against her.

This a big deal. The Front National has a history of overt racism and anti-semitism – under Jean Marie Le Pen, Marine’s father – even if it claims that those days are behind it.

Le Pen wants to take France out of the euro and throw up trade barriers to protect French industry. If that happened then, effectively, the EU project would be dead in the water.

Marine has 30% of support because 50% of the french did not vote at the last municipal elections. As it already happened with its father few years before, if she can even reach the "final" of the french election she will get her ass kicked thanks to a huge mobilisation. When you read statistics, you should check the number behind ....

[r0ach]

^I am not invested in the outcome of the French election, as I am not a Frenchman, but there's numerous examples like that of far right parties that used to have 1% of the vote now becoming huge in Europe.  Which is a good thing since they were slaves of Marxist bankers before.  Now it's time to break out the guillotines again.

[sandiman]

^I am not invested in the outcome of the French election, as I am not a Frenchman, but there's numerous examples like that of far right parties that used to have 1% of the vote now becoming huge in Europe.  Which is a good thing since they were slaves of Marxist bankers before.  Now it's time to break out the guillotines again.

It has never been, it is not, and will never be good to be ruled by any of these far right parties, that are just aiming to go back to the 50's and erase all the progess that has been made. We need to move toward globalization if we want to tackle the issues of our century, and not go back to a world full of rogue state. Anyway, we are getting out of subject 

[Jastetad]

I am thinking of buying some DAO with my hard earned Ethereum. The DAO price might rise in the listing.

[d-trix]

I am thinking of buying some DAO with my hard earned Ethereum. The DAO price might rise in the listing.

The rise in price of DAO is inevitable, at the end of the month it will be the highest funded crowdfunding project to date.

[rdnkjdi]

R0ach.  The reason is because the way the contract is setup before any proposals are voted on pre-investors can withdraw 100% of their originally invested Ethereum (assuming they purchased in the first 14 days).  After the first 14 days the price goes up by 5% a day until it's at 150% (the additional price bumps can't be withdrawn).

I suspect it's people gambling on supply and demand - "If someone is willing to pay 150% on day 31 then I'll be able to sell it on open market for 150%.  Also it will never be worth less than what I paid for it in Eth because I can just cash it out (until crowdfunding starts using the money to fund stuff).

I'm sure there are some hardcore believers.  But only a fraction of the people who purchased DAO.  

P.S.  They just extended the presale by one day.  If you wanted to short Ethereum now's the time to do it.

[electronicash]

Simple.
Buy in before the price rises 50% by the end of the ico.
Cash out afterward with a guaranteed split (as stated in the terms) for instant 50% profit

An easy 50% instant profit ? hard to believe, I am not doubting you, I am doubting DAO.

Everyone has doubts. even t hose that invest actually. they don't know the outcome really but seeing how the project may turn out, there is a higher possibility of having a good profit like how the other coins had succeeded.  Some may see DAO better than Lisk and some don't.

[Minecache]

I am thinking of buying some DAO with my hard earned Ethereum. The DAO price might rise in the listing.

DAO is a good bet in the future if you have a few spare ETH to invest. I believe I the tech of ETH and DAO so much I've invested a few BTC valuations. And I'd encourage all others to do so too. We are at the precipice of life changing technology for all for the whole wide world. Invest in it and be a winner.

Ps. The naysayers are the almOst identical ones in 2009/10 who criticised against Bitcoin. Don't make the same mistake.

[sockpuppet1]

Re: DAU replaces DAO

3) Finally, this fund-raise is now of a size that it's going to attract SEC attention. If it were a $1m raise, it could be a great experiment, grow with network, and not attract undue legal attention this early. But it looks like it may flirt with $100m. Already at over $75m, this is something the SEC will care about. But what can they do, you might ask? Well, they can declare the project to be an illegal securities offering (Slock.it's language in their terms doesn't matter; only the SEC's interpretation matters), and then track the ETH payments that come out of the DAO and freeze them (by making it clear to exchanges that the funds represent illegal flows). Then holders would be forced to go through dubious (and largely trackable) channels in order to access their funds.

Maybe none of the above would happen; maybe the SEC won't care, etc, but with such large value already locked in the DAO, it's become a significant and increasing risk in my opinion.

tldr: this has gotten out of hand, both for the network/ecosystem in organic terms, and in terms of attracting SEC scrutiny.

The rise in price of DAO is inevitable, at the end of the month it will be the highest funded crowdfunding project to date.

R0ach.  The reason is because the way the contract is setup before any proposals are voted on pre-investors can withdraw 100% of their originally invested Ethereum (assuming they purchased in the first 14 days).  After the first 14 days the price goes up by 5% a day until it's at 150% (the additional price bumps can't be withdrawn).

I suspect it's people gambling on supply and demand - "If someone is willing to pay 150% on day 31 then I'll be able to sell it on open market for 150%.  Also it will never be worth less than what I paid for it in Eth because I can just cash it out (until crowdfunding starts using the money to fund stuff).

SEC sent out a warning in January 2016. Hope the pumpers are preparing for their jail time:

There is a reason why the SEC issued a warning about Crypto coins calling them scams..
Read it yourselves.. https://www.sec.gov/investor/alerts/ia_virtualcurrencies.pdf (Issued Jan 4th 2016)

We are concerned that the rising use of virtual currencies
in the global marketplace may entice fraudsters to lure
investors into Ponzi and other schemes in which these
currencies are used to facilitate fraudulent, or simply
fabricated, investments or transactions. the fraud may
also involve an unregistered offering or trading platform.
these schemes often promise high returns for getting in
on the ground floor of a growing Internet phenomenon.
Fraudsters may also be attracted to using virtual
currencies to perpetrate their frauds because transactions
in virtual currencies supposedly have
greater privacy
benefits and less regulatory oversight than transactions in
con
ventional currencies. Any investment in securities in
the United states remains subject to the jurisdiction
of the seC regardless of whether the investment is made
in U.s. dollars or a virtual currency.
In particular,
individuals selling investments are typically subject
to federal or state licensing requirements.

[bittraffic]

I am thinking of buying some DAO with my hard earned Ethereum. The DAO price might rise in the listing.

DAO is a good bet in the future if you have a few spare ETH to invest. I believe I the tech of ETH and DAO so much I've invested a few BTC valuations. And I'd encourage all others to do so too. We are at the precipice of life changing technology for all for the whole wide world. Invest in it and be a winner.

Ps. The naysayers are the almOst identical ones in 2009/10 who criticised against Bitcoin. Don't make the same mistake.

We are once again in the stage of becoming an early adopter. I never thought of engaging with bitcoin back when it was still very cheap taht is why from now on once I encounter an opportunity which i believe to be very useful in the future I grab it like what i did with ETH. I belvie the rest of us have also invested on the rest like Lisk and Waves but yeah few extra ETH won't hurt.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Roach, I'm curious why you say the stock market is going to crash, because I think the bull market still has some life left in it.  2008 seems like just yesterday for me and we're still recovering from that crisis.   I do own stocks and I don't even know what a DAO is.

[BitFomo]

Roach, I'm curious why you say the stock market is going to crash, because I think the bull market still has some life left in it.  2008 seems like just yesterday for me and we're still recovering from that crisis.   I do own stocks and I don't even know what a DAO is.

Look at the chart for s&p... chances are it goes down than up from here.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Roach, I'm curious why you say the stock market is going to crash, because I think the bull market still has some life left in it.  2008 seems like just yesterday for me and we're still recovering from that crisis.   I do own stocks and I don't even know what a DAO is.

Look at the chart for s&p... chances are it goes down than up from here.

But that just isn't true.  But what's your timeframe for that anyway?  You can say the market is going to go down and eventually that'll be true, but the critical piece of info is when.

[Sark]

An easy 50% instant profit ? hard to believe, I am not doubting you, I am doubting DAO.

This has long been accounted for in the DAO code. This line of profit taking just doesn't work.

[BitcoinHodler]

i am only looking for rises and falls in altcoins no matter what they are called

and since i missed this DAO thing i didn't buy and i already had my funds stuck elsewhere anyways

[Minecache]

An easy 50% instant profit ? hard to believe, I am not doubting you, I am doubting DAO.

This has long been accounted for in the DAO code. This line of profit taking just doesn't work.

It doesn't work? It's doesn't fuckin exist. And if these DAO naysayer fucktards would bother to read and understand a line of DAO smart contract code they would realise this and quit their bullshit fudding. DAO is toned best opportunity since sliced bread. Even if you only invest 1 ETH into it you will still be a winner.

[r0ach]

An easy 50% instant profit ? hard to believe, I am not doubting you, I am doubting DAO.

This has long been accounted for in the DAO code. This line of profit taking just doesn't work.

It doesn't work? It's doesn't fuckin exist. And if these DAO naysayer fucktards would bother to read and understand a line of DAO smart contract code they would realise this and quit their bullshit fudding. DAO is toned best opportunity since sliced bread. Even if you only invest 1 ETH into it you will still be a winner.

I'm not sure what's more ridiculous, the amount of pro-Eth shilling you do, or the fact that you do it while having a ponzi scheme in your signature.

"Hey guys, I promise you this Eth thing will go to $1000 each any second.  I'm just an average dude off the street of high moral character, you can totally trust me.  By the way, check out this Ponzi scheme!"

[AbsoluteT]

The DAO price has a chance to raise after the end of crowed sale and you can always take your ethereum back so there no risk with potential gains

[socks435]

The DAO price has a chance to raise after the end of crowed sale and you can always take your ethereum back so there no risk with potential gains

How you sure that dao will be valuable after they release it in the market?
I heard many people are complaining it.. but really dont know what is the potencial of DAO.

[smooth]

I bought a little because I got confused by all the mania and thought it was Powerball. When is the drawing?

[altcoinUK]

You would be far better off buying something on the real stock market where you can personally verify some type of fundamentals ...

Precisely.  (not sure about the crash so I removed that from your comment.)

[tokeweed]

<r0ach> we are going into a liquidity crunch where liquid cash is the most valuable asset (fiat paper not in a bank, bitcoin, gold, etc) and stocks are going to crash.  Yet these guys are investing in something with the fundamental of a stock, except it has no product, no revenue, no employees, no business, no nothing.

<r0ach> so even if they manage to get that put together and develop something, it's still the same thing as buying any random stock

<r0ach> and slock.it is pointless

You would be far better off buying something on the real stock market where you can personally verify some type of fundamentals, but all of those are going to crash anyway.

It's something new.  Just like how you bought into BTS, remember?  Not all projects become a success though...  Most people lose money buying into these things.  It's the reason why there are a lot of avid whiners around here.

[cryptodv]

Sent all my pre-sale Eth to Dao the first day. Didn't think it would hit 100 mil. Whoa! 

[CryptoCoinWareHouse]

<r0ach> we are going into a liquidity crunch where liquid cash is the most valuable asset (fiat paper not in a bank, bitcoin, gold, etc) and stocks are going to crash.  Yet these guys are investing in something with the fundamental of a stock, except it has no product, no revenue, no employees, no business, no nothing.

<r0ach> so even if they manage to get that put together and develop something, it's still the same thing as buying any random stock

<r0ach> and slock.it is pointless

You would be far better off buying something on the real stock market where you can personally verify some type of fundamentals, but all of those are going to crash anyway.

It's something new.  Just like how you bought into BTS, remember?  Not all projects become a success though...  Most people lose money buying into these things.  It's the reason why there are a lot of avid whiners around here.

I verified buying into ETH at first and made 20k kicking my self could of been 100k

[MicroGuy]

https://twitter.com/kyletorpey/status/730535910949916672

~~

[tokeweed]

Lol Kyle_Torpey!

[r0ach]

The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

[finishedgrey]

Is this a worth coin to be invested?

[Spoetnik]

https://twitter.com/kyletorpey/status/730535910949916672

~~

That is priceless LOL 

and Good to see ya still around MicroGuy.. Altcoin Oldtimer LOL

[Gillette]

DAO crap is as crap as ETH !

[tokeweed]

The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

Sure.  But give it a chance and see where it goes this time around.  

Edit:  Like people here have a choice whatever they say.  The DAO crowdfund is ongoing and could be the largest in history of crowdfunding.

[Denker]

This is going to be one, if not the biggest scam in cryptoland so far!!
Unbelievable how stupid people can be!

[sockpuppet1]

DAO crap is as crap as ETH !

"Crap I failed to buy that 1000% ROI crap."

We were crazy for ignoring what Bernie SandersMadoff was selling, until the clawbacks[1]...

Oh so you aren't aware they can come take your profits long after you've disposed of the asset. This is a clawback.[1]

[1]	http://www.businessinsider.com/the-truth-behind-how-gerald-celente-got-screwed-by-mf-global-2011-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/two-mf-global-clients-share-their-stories-2011-11

[jjacob]

This is going to be one, if not the biggest scam in cryptoland so far!!
Unbelievable how stupid people can be!

Stupid + Greedy.
The fear of missing out on an ETH like rally is driving all the investments.

[Kairoz]

I bought it just because the hype.

[sandiman]

I bought it just because the hype.

You will probably be burned by the whale as soon as they try to get more DAO from the weak hands.

[altcoinUK]

The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

That is the main issue with DAO. A graduate level lawyer would be able to explain to the idiots why this is an unsolvable issue with DAO. (Not that the idiots who "invest" in this nonsense would care at all as they couldn't care less about DAO - they are involved to realize the "ROI").

http://www.coindesk.com/how-to-sue-a-decentralized-autonomous-organization/

"Second, for a DAO to operate in a world in which legal relationships are formalized by contracts, and enforced by courts, I don't see how a DAO can act unless it is either a corporation or it has no corporate form and it is simply an extension of its human members."

and this is the most interesting bit

"Among other things, the members of a general partnership can end up jointly and severally liable on a personal basis for partnership obligations. One potential flaw in their structure is that they may not have assets from which to indemnify third parties.".

However the DAO operators try to twist the facts around the legal responsibility issue, the court will enforce its orders and rulings on the human operators of the network. Would Vitalik get as far as operating a DAO? I doubt he will. It is nothing else but selling a useless, fraudulent fucking cryptoasset.

[goostatic74829]

https://twitter.com/kyletorpey/status/730535910949916672

~~

Lol good one

[ProfessionalGoogler]

Notice how all the negative things said about Eth, then a month later these FUDers get proven wrong.

Stop trying, Eth along with everything created on top of it is here to stay, and yes it is real.

End the FUD.

[altcoinUK]

it is here to stay, and yes it is real.

Idiot. Only the legal issues of a DAO are real and here to stay.

[jmpFCE2]

The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

hf bagholder, with your pointless, outdated clone coin and play games while the world moves on

[smooth]

The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

hf bagholder, with your pointless, outdated clone coin and play games while the world moves on

I don't know for sure but I don't think r0ach is a BTS bag holder. He was involved earlier but probably sold long ago and is sharing his (relevant imo) experience.

[Spoetnik]

Notice how all the negative things said about Eth, then a month later these FUDers get proven wrong.

Stop trying, Eth along with everything created on top of it is here to stay, and yes it is real.

End the FUD.

This is NOT a topic about ETH believe it nor Shill.

And you just lied through your teeth.. badly. 

People this Ethereum clown is not too smart.. he couldn't make hot in a fire !

[trickytricky]

have to wait and c what happens

[btctube]

https://twitter.com/kyletorpey/status/730535910949916672

~~

You can retweet that with all your accounts and hope you get all the satisfaction but nothing stops DAO still.

[benthach]

I'm sure your anti semitic rants will have institutional investors rushing to buy bitcoin...or litecoin...or any crypto that isn't ethereum

what's happenning to this digixdao scam now? is this dao hype still on?

[eca.sh]

The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

How does a project effectively function with the daily or even major decisions of a project delegated to the fluctuating whims and politics of voting? Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

Does the DAO bypass the classification of an ICO as an investment security?

The voting aspect confers legal rights and requires centralized organization. Whereas, decentralized version control open-source has no elected center; and proof-of-work decentralized mining controlled protocols have no permanent voting shares.


http://www.cuttingedgecapital.com/what-is-a-security-and-why-does-it-matter/

“when a purchaser is motivated by a desire to use or consume the item purchased . . . the securities laws do not apply.”

“Finally, we examine whether some factor such as the existence of another regulatory scheme significantly reduces the risk of the instrument, thereby rendering application of the Securities Acts unnecessary.”

“The court formulated a new test for whether something is a security, called the “risk capital test” which considers whether funds are being raised for a business venture or enterprise;

• whether the investors are substantially powerless to effect [sic] the success of the enterprise”


https://coincenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bitcoin-Primer-2ndEd.pdf#page=35

“it [the protocol] would become truly nebulous, running on the shared resources of thousands of distributed computers and not controlled by any central authority.”


https://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

“As a result, these crowd sales share many similarities with traditional securities offerings where investors purchase stock as a bet on the future success of a company.”

“Although most people consider the dollars in their pockets as nothing more than a means for paying for goods and services, the truth is that those dollars are also an investment. The U.S. dollar fluctuates in value relative to other foreign currencies and relative to the goods and services that can be purchased with dollars. If today, you can buy more packs of gum, more light bulbs, or more Euros than you could have bought yesterday with the same amount of dollars, you have profited from your investment in dollars. The value of a U.S. Dollar investment fluctuates based on countless factors such as interest rate levels, trade deficits with other countries, and government policy. To some extent, an investment in the U.S. dollar is an investment in the U.S. economy relative to other countries’ economies.

Holding bitcoins is also an investment. But instead of an investment in a country’s economy, holding bitcoins can be seen as an investment in the network and technology behind Bitcoin.”

“No management structure – Indeed, most platforms that require users to transact with a proprietary coin are called decentralized applications because they operate not based on the decisions of a management team or central authority, but based on a defined set of protocols. (For context, a good analogy is to look at how email functions with no central authority behind it.) As a result, when purchasing a coin, unlike when purchasing a stock, an investor is not making the equivalent of a bet on a management team’s ability to operate a profitable company. Instead, an investor is often making a bet on how useful and popular a particular network application will become.

This distinction is not as clear cut when a development team sells a proprietary coin during a crowd sale. In that instance, investors can also be seen as making a bet on a development team’s ability to launch some related project or platform like Storj.”

“Different information asymmetry – Securities laws are based primarily on a principle that full disclosure helps close information gaps between management and investors. As a result, companies planning to offer securities to the public are required to publicize certain defined information about their operations and financial health. Due to the fact that cryptocurrency investors are often investing in a decentralized application and not a management team, they are likely most interested in learning how the protocol behind that application works, not how the initial development team operates. And most popular decentralized applications are already open source, meaning that the protocol for how they will operate can be viewed by anyone.”

“No legal rights – Another key distinction is that cryptocurrencies do not grant their holders any traditional legal rights granted to securities holders. Holding a proprietary coin does not legally entitle one to share in profits realized by the project funded by the sale of that coin or to vote on key decisions that may need to be made about that project’s future.”

[hv_]

If you sit on a (big) bunch of ETH, what would you do with it?

There is no real use case (yet) - so kick them into sth new hypy / at least with 20% ...


For physics:

You can solve a 2 body Problem, good!

3 bodies ? - Ohh - hard....


Many bodies ?  -> do some mean field aproach and look for equilibrium states.


I predict that the DAO power w/o any CEO  or 2-lead CEOs  will fall into the many body trap and tend to equilibrium decisions   ==  DEATH

Look @bitcoin actual Problems: Here 2-3 groups cannot agree on a consensus solution...

Cheers

[TrueAnon]

I bought in but just hope i dont get burned

[r0ach]

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

I'm not sure what side you're trying to take on if it's an investment security or not, but since it's not possible to even have a decentralized system without PoW (PoS is a permissioned ledger), that seems like it would automatically fail for all Eth's legal defenses once they switch to proof of stake.  The fact that they held an IPO for the proof of stake system just puts them further in the grave.

Maybe I should buy just 1 Eth so I can sue them for fraud.

[eca.sh]

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

I'm not sure what side you're trying to take on if it's an investment security or not, but since it's not possible to even have a decentralized system without PoW (PoS is a permissioned ledger), that seems like it would automatically fail for all Eth's legal defenses once they switch to proof of stake.  The fact that they held an IPO for the proof of stake system just puts them further in the grave.

Maybe I should buy just 1 Eth so I can sue them for fraud.

It is obvious that a DAO can't function with decentralized control. Even the voting requires some centralized organization.

If you argue that proof-of-stake is not a decentralized protocol, you must also argue that Bitcoin's mining is not centralized, because the FinCEN guidance explicitly mentioned "computer computation" in the definition of decentralized virtual currencies.

More discussion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1474403.msg14899137#msg14899137

[TrueAnon]

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

I'm not sure what side you're trying to take on if it's an investment security or not, but since it's not possible to even have a decentralized system without PoW (PoS is a permissioned ledger), that seems like it would automatically fail for all Eth's legal defenses once they switch to proof of stake.  The fact that they held an IPO for the proof of stake system just puts them further in the grave.

Maybe I should buy just 1 Eth so I can sue them for fraud.

It is obvious that a DAO can't function with decentralized control. Even the voting requires some centralized organization.

If you argue that proof-of-stake is not a decentralized protocol, you must also argue that Bitcoin's mining is not centralized, because the FinCEN guidance explicitly mentioned "computer computation" in the definition of decentralized virtual currencies.

More discussion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1474403.msg14899137#msg14899137

I'm glad it's not all RAHRAHRAH for Dao as people so easily blinded at times.
I mean I "think" it could see amazing results but will it.....esp with as described above.

[Zer0Sum]

This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.

[GreenBits]

This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.

.

What, in the blue fuck, is that? Dammit people, the blockchain can't solve every fucking thing. That's a toy as far as I'm concerned, pardon my ignorance if I have failed to see the use case for a robotic power wheel.

There are too many vastly superior companies making autonomous EVs. And a blockchain is wholly unnecessary, why does there need to be a ledger of the rentals?

Do you care who rented the red box end before you did? Do the shareholders care? Does anyone honestly care?

[smooth]

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

The algorithm does. Any token holder can submit a proposal and open proposals are displayed in descending order by the amount of deposit paid.

[sandiman]

This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.

.

What, in the blue fuck, is that? Dammit people, the blockchain can't solve every fucking thing. That's a toy as far as I'm concerned, pardon my ignorance if I have failed to see the use case for a robotic power wheel.

There are too many vastly superior companies making autonomous EVs. And a blockchain is wholly unnecessary, why does there need to be a ledger of the rentals?

Do you care who rented the red box end before you did? Do the shareholders care? Does anyone honestly care?

You guys don't see the full potential of the blockchain. Anyone could create an autonomous organization of self driving cars when the technology will be ready. You would use such car to go from point A to point B and pay it. Then, the car could charge or fuel back itself, and if it made profit even buy another car to add to "its" fleet (or expand the general fleet, depending on the code).

Another example of autonomous organization could be a email spamming system. Corporation would use such AO to advertise themselve, and the AO i don't know with what kind of algorithm, would provide the service.

I don't know how can someone stay that long on the forum of bitcoin and so the blockchain technology, without first being interested in the technology and then passionated about its possibilities.

[doc12]

Why not croudfound a DAO with the DAO ?  

This is a perpetuum mobile for money


Why exactly we need to buy bitcoin to buy ether to buy DAO to buy a share in a company. WTF?

[stoat]

This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.

.

What, in the blue fuck, is that? Dammit people, the blockchain can't solve every fucking thing. That's a toy as far as I'm concerned, pardon my ignorance if I have failed to see the use case for a robotic power wheel.

There are too many vastly superior companies making autonomous EVs. And a blockchain is wholly unnecessary, why does there need to be a ledger of the rentals?

Do you care who rented the red box end before you did? Do the shareholders care? Does anyone honestly care?

You guys don't see the full potential of the blockchain. Anyone could create an autonomous organization of self driving cars when the technology will be ready. You would use such car to go from point A to point B and pay it. Then, the car could charge or fuel back itself, and if it made profit even buy another car to add to "its" fleet (or expand the general fleet, depending on the code).

Another example of autonomous organization could be a email spamming system. Corporation would use such AO to advertise themselve, and the AO i don't know with what kind of algorithm, would provide the service.

I don't know how can someone stay that long on the forum of bitcoin and so the blockchain technology, without first being interested in the technology and then passionated about its possibilities.

Well said.

The fact is, the reprobate specimens who frequent this forum are mostly scammers and promoters of fake and broken shitcoins,  it's natural that they would act in a churlish manner towards a crypto with genuine application in the real world.  The fucking tossers should get in the fucking sea

[mrkavasaki]

the eth price  is very high right now
is it still worth to invest?

[eca.sh]

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

The algorithm does. Any token holder can submit a proposal and open proposals are displayed in descending order by the amount of deposit paid.

To release the agreed bounty, a quorum of neophyte investors will vote to on whether the pull request submitted by the contracted programmer meets the requirements of the specification we originally approved by a prior vote? We will not depend on any experts to advise us? This will magically all coordinate itself in a decentralized manner without any de facto leaders emerging?

Whomever designed the DAO doesn't comprehend the how and why politics doesn't work.

“An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications.” — Lazarus Long

“A Snail: Monero built with decentralized donations.” — SOMAcoin

[smooth]

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

The algorithm does. Any token holder can submit a proposal and open proposals are displayed in descending order by the amount of deposit paid.

To release the agreed bounty, a quorum of neophyte investors will vote to on whether the pull request submitted by the contracted programmer meets the requirements of the specification we originally approved by a prior vote? We will not depend on any experts to advise us? This will magically all coordinate itself in a decentralized manner without any de facto leaders emerging?

You asked one question, and I answered it. Now you are asking another question, which unfortunately can not be answered in an objective manner because the answer lies not in code but in speculation about future events.

[s1gs3gv]

You guys don't see the full potential of the blockchain.

Au contraire, we have seen the potential AND the hype and have learned to distinguish between the two.

Zer0Sum nailed it.

[s1gs3gv]

You asked one question, and I answered it. Now you are asking another question, which unfortunately can not be answered in an objective manner because the answer lies not in code but in speculation about future events.

Huh ? What is wrong with you man. You can't foretell the future ?

~LOL~

[fanatic26]

The amount of ethereum invested in the DAO far exceeds what has been mined if you discount the genesis block. Whoever actually controls the majority of ethereum can pump money into the DAO as well as manipulate the ETH price to make people think it is so much better than it actually is. Do the math then come back and tell me how great and popular it is...

Personally I smell pump and dump all over this thing.

[GreenBits]

This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.

.

What, in the blue fuck, is that? Dammit people, the blockchain can't solve every fucking thing. That's a toy as far as I'm concerned, pardon my ignorance if I have failed to see the use case for a robotic power wheel.

There are too many vastly superior companies making autonomous EVs. And a blockchain is wholly unnecessary, why does there need to be a ledger of the rentals?

Do you care who rented the red box end before you did? Do the shareholders care? Does anyone honestly care?

You guys don't see the full potential of the blockchain. Anyone could create an autonomous organization of self driving cars when the technology will be ready. You would use such car to go from point A to point B and pay it. Then, the car could charge or fuel back itself, and if it made profit even buy another car to add to "its" fleet (or expand the general fleet, depending on the code).

Another example of autonomous organization could be a email spamming system. Corporation would use such AO to advertise themselve, and the AO i don't know with what kind of algorithm, would provide the service.

I don't know how can someone stay that long on the forum of bitcoin and so the blockchain technology, without first being interested in the technology and then passionated about its possibilities.

Well said.

The fact is, the reprobate specimens who frequent this forum are mostly scammers and promoters of fake and broken shitcoins,  it's natural that they would act in a churlish manner towards a crypto with genuine application in the real world.  The fucking tossers should get in the fucking sea

Before I jump overboard, let me say uber is testing autonomous evs as we speak, sans blockchain. Teslas latest offering is also of the same vein. No company in this space has the r and d or capital expenditure to compete with either of these behemoths.

Blockchains are publically verifiable ledgers. If you don't really need a public ledger, you don't need a blockchain.

If the technology existed (these vehicles), I could simply call up an agent that owns these vehicles, rent the same fleet with my credit card, and flirt merrily from point A to point B. After which the car could return to its point of origin, or blow up, I give a wit either way. Simply trying to convey there are myriad more mundane and recognized technologies that don't need to be developed in order to do this. Some of the use cases seem almost a stretch to implement blockchain technology.

It's not that I'm not passionate about what bitcoin means to the future. It's just tempered with practicality.


Also, from experience, you don't want code spending money for you. You want code to indicate to you how or when you should spend your money. So that you can weigh variables outside the code, and use your intuition to decide.

Oh yeah. That swim.

splash

[ProfessionalGoogler]

This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.

.

What, in the blue fuck, is that? Dammit people, the blockchain can't solve every fucking thing. That's a toy as far as I'm concerned, pardon my ignorance if I have failed to see the use case for a robotic power wheel.

There are too many vastly superior companies making autonomous EVs. And a blockchain is wholly unnecessary, why does there need to be a ledger of the rentals?

Do you care who rented the red box end before you did? Do the shareholders care? Does anyone honestly care?

You guys don't see the full potential of the blockchain. Anyone could create an autonomous organization of self driving cars when the technology will be ready. You would use such car to go from point A to point B and pay it. Then, the car could charge or fuel back itself, and if it made profit even buy another car to add to "its" fleet (or expand the general fleet, depending on the code).

Another example of autonomous organization could be a email spamming system. Corporation would use such AO to advertise themselve, and the AO i don't know with what kind of algorithm, would provide the service.

I don't know how can someone stay that long on the forum of bitcoin and so the blockchain technology, without first being interested in the technology and then passionated about its possibilities.

Well said.

The fact is, the reprobate specimens who frequent this forum are mostly scammers and promoters of fake and broken shitcoins,  it's natural that they would act in a churlish manner towards a crypto with genuine application in the real world.  The fucking tossers should get in the fucking sea

Before I jump overboard, let me say uber is testing autonomous evs as we speak, sans blockchain. Teslas latest offering is also of the same vein. No company in this space has the r and d or capital expenditure to compete with either of these behemoths.

Blockchains are publically verifiable ledgers. If you don't really need a public ledger, you don't need a blockchain.

If the technology existed (these vehicles), I could simply call up an agent that owns these vehicles, rent the same fleet with my credit card, and flirt merrily from point A to point B. After which the car could return to its point of origin, or blow up, I give a wit either way. Simply trying to convey there are myriad more mundane and recognized technologies that don't need to be developed in order to do this. Some of the use cases seem almost a stretch to implement blockchain technology.

It's not that I'm not passionate about what bitcoin means to the future. It's just tempered with practicality.


Also, from experience, you don't want code spending money for you. You want code to indicate to you how or when you should spend your money. So that you can weigh variables outside the code, and use your intuition to decide.

Oh yeah. That swim.

splash

"Anyone" could become the next Apple.
"Anyone" could become the next Google.
"Anyone" could make millions of dollars.
"Anyone" could build the next best crypto currency.

Surely it is impossible that a alt coin is useful and taking off - surely impossible that the development team are actually developing and pursuing to take a chunk out of a trillion+ dollar industry?

The internet will never take off, what a bubble - what a bust.

Don't kid yourself while I love Bitcoin Yahoo is still valued more - I mean who uses Yahoo right? Yet Bitcoin is still pretty big sitting at 7 billion.

The potential for Ethereum to grow the size of Bitcoin is very real.

Bitcoin is just used by criminals remember? 

[target]

This is the big #2 proposal that is driving DAO lemmings-jump-off-the-cliff-and-drown-in-the-sea mass suicide.
 
It's almost impossible to exaggerate how retarded this is...
Or how blockchain unsuitable maintaining fleets of cars is (why stop here, let's manage an airline with Solidity code).

Would you put someone you care about into this contraption?

And as for the claims of instant profits, sorry, no free lunch...
You can withdraw your ETH at 100 DAO per ETH... if you paid 1.5 ETH per 100 you will take a 50% loss.

I suspect that >>> 50% of the DAO investments will be pulled out within weeks...
But the SuperBubble masters will have succeded in popping ETH by 50% in the last month.

Please note that all that heavy buying... is matched by heavy selling and profit taking.

Doesn't matter to these investors as profit taking is the whole idea now.
What could go wrong though is if this DAO will eventually make its way up like how ETH is doing. BTC would be left behind if it weren't because of the halving that users are waiting. But lets wait after all profit taking is the game.

[GreenBits]

Anyone "could" become one of these great things, but few people will. The ability to do a thing does not confer the prowess to see that thing through. Most businesses fail, the reason for this is that they are mismanaged. Not that the initial idea was poor in any way. Business is a degree for a reason.

Ethereum is a wonderful idea. I have never said otherwise. I just don't think the idea of a Corp that functions independent of a trained director or board is a good idea. Also, unless the blockchain is about to grow legs and arms to sign some contracts and pay some bills, you will need human actors to perform real world functions, and oracles to report binary outcomes back to the blockchain. Human actors are subject to fail. We aren't even talking about coercion or subversion.

To me, the DAO only seems to provide a more elegant form of voting rights in a Corp. A token is a share, with voting rights. What else does this token do besides that? Despite all the innovation that eth may provide once it's potential is fully realized, this token is a tradeable voting share of a company that's on a public, verifiable ledger.  

Kinda like a stock.

Which makes this a security.

An illegal security, as it is not regulated by the SEC.

Yahoo is still crazy popular outside the States, btw.

[eca.sh]

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

The algorithm does. Any token holder can submit a proposal and open proposals are displayed in descending order by the amount of deposit paid.

To release the agreed bounty, a quorum of neophyte investors will vote to on whether the pull request submitted by the contracted programmer meets the requirements of the specification we originally approved by a prior vote? We will not depend on any experts to advise us? This will magically all coordinate itself in a decentralized manner without any de facto leaders emerging?

Whomever designed the DAO doesn't comprehend the how and why politics doesn't work.

“An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications.” — Lazarus Long

“A Snail: Monero built with decentralized donations.” — SOMAcoin

You asked one question, and I answered it. Now you are asking another question, which unfortunately can not be answered in an objective manner because the answer lies not in code but in speculation about future events.

You did not answer my question. You've written that there is a decentralized protocol for slotting presumably funding decisions on a decentralized ballot. Thank you for that information.

Your answer does not explain “who decides how ... issues are organized”. I clarified that such a decentralized ballot process can't organize issues, because the crowd is by definition an abrogation of the inexorable march towards increasing maximum-division-of-labor. That is just factoring in the divergence of lack of focused expertise in a decentralized ballot process. Add to that the knowledge from history from which follows the insight that politics diverges towards the most inefficient process possible.

Contrast a DAO with a DVCS open source project in which peered experts collaborate in a decentralized process; which is the only known convergent positive scaling rule for software development structure. DVCS open source development is a viable decentralized process. Voting is not, because it requires a centralized management structure.

You asked one question, and I answered it. Now you are asking another question, which unfortunately can not be answered in an objective manner because the answer lies not in code but in speculation about future events.

Huh ? What is wrong with you man. You can't foretell the future ?

The solid as granite understanding that politics divergences from optimum outcomes does not require any crystal ball.

“Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.” — George Santayana

[eca.sh]

I just don't think the idea of a Corp that functions independent of a trained director or board is a good idea.

To me, the DAO only seems to provide a more elegant form of voting rights in a Corp. A token is a share, with voting rights. What else does this token do besides that? Despite all the innovation that eth may provide once it's potential is fully realized, this token is a tradeable voting share of a company that's on a public, verifiable ledger.  

Kinda like a stock.

Which makes this a security.

An illegal security, as it is not regulated by the SEC.

It seems logical that since the voters can't actually perform the expertise of a skilled manager, the DAO is structurally indistinguishable from an electronic voting technology implementing the traditional corporate management structure. Otherwise without corporate management structure, the chaos and failure of a divergent unmanaged, disorganized, inept structure.

[smooth]

Your answer does not explain “who decides how ... issues are organized”.

I described the only mechanism that exists for the resources of The DAO to be mobilized.

I clarified that such a decentralized ballot process can't organize issues

Then in your opinion, issues will not be organized by The DAO, because no other mechanism exists.

[hv_]

... And why not buying this DAO

https://youtu.be/ePwdFUrcS5M

http://www.avalon-life-prelaunch.com


What the fk is this?

daodaodaodao

[sandiman]

Before I jump overboard, let me say uber is testing autonomous evs as we speak, sans blockchain. Teslas latest offering is also of the same vein. No company in this space has the r and d or capital expenditure to compete with either of these behemoths.

Blockchains are publically verifiable ledgers. If you don't really need a public ledger, you don't need a blockchain.

If the technology existed (these vehicles), I could simply call up an agent that owns these vehicles, rent the same fleet with my credit card, and flirt merrily from point A to point B. After which the car could return to its point of origin, or blow up, I give a wit either way. Simply trying to convey there are myriad more mundane and recognized technologies that don't need to be developed in order to do this. Some of the use cases seem almost a stretch to implement blockchain technology.

It's not that I'm not passionate about what bitcoin means to the future. It's just tempered with practicality.


Also, from experience, you don't want code spending money for you. You want code to indicate to you how or when you should spend your money. So that you can weigh variables outside the code, and use your intuition to decide.

Oh yeah. That swim.

splash

First of all, private blockchain exists, they don't have to be all publicaly verifiable ledger.

There in your uber or tesla example, it would be incredibly more expensive to use such cars than one provided by an autonomous organization (please do not mistake it with a DAO) because of centralization, it's like comparing actual credit card fees and bitcoin fees. Moreover, in this case no code spend money for you, car choose through their code how they need and want to spend money, this is the whole point of an AO, no human needs)

Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

The algorithm does. Any token holder can submit a proposal and open proposals are displayed in descending order by the amount of deposit paid.

To release the agreed bounty, a quorum of neophyte investors will vote to on whether the pull request submitted by the contracted programmer meets the requirements of the specification we originally approved by a prior vote? We will not depend on any experts to advise us? This will magically all coordinate itself in a decentralized manner without any de facto leaders emerging?

Whomever designed the DAO doesn't comprehend the how and why politics doesn't work.

“An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications.” — Lazarus Long

“A Snail: Monero built with decentralized donations.” — SOMAcoin

You are right Eca.sh aca Shelby, and this subject of political game has already been discussed on the Daoslack. It will be very interesting to see how the dao works in the future.

[r0ach]

... And why not buying this DAO

https://youtu.be/ePwdFUrcS5M

http://www.avalon-life-prelaunch.com


What the fk is this?

daodaodaodao

When someone presents you with a rap video and then says "give me millions of dollars", that might be a red flag.

[GreenBits]

... And why not buying this DAO

https://youtu.be/ePwdFUrcS5M

http://www.avalon-life-prelaunch.com


What the fk is this?

daodaodaodao

When someone presents you with a rap video and then says "give me millions of dollars", that might be a red flag.

Lol, I finally clicked through to play that video. When I heard a pending bass drop, I knew what I was in for.

I'd invest in the company that sold them that beat.

Usually rappers tells us about their massive fortunes, not solicit them from us   

[DeadBirdzz]

... And why not buying this DAO

https://youtu.be/ePwdFUrcS5M

http://www.avalon-life-prelaunch.com


What the fk is this?

daodaodaodao

some muppet is trying to pull a fast one by using the DAO momentum to disguise his cheap multi-level marketing scheme.

What a twat.

[hv_]

... And why not buying this DAO

https://youtu.be/ePwdFUrcS5M

http://www.avalon-life-prelaunch.com


What the fk is this?

daodaodaodao

some muppet is trying to pull a fast one by using the DAO momentum to disguise his cheap multi-level marketing scheme.

What a twat.

I now go and create a  PAO

ponzi auto org

Anyone interested?

[Casalania]

... And why not buying this DAO

https://youtu.be/ePwdFUrcS5M

http://www.avalon-life-prelaunch.com


What the fk is this?

daodaodaodao

When someone presents you with a rap video and then says "give me millions of dollars", that might be a red flag.

In the DAO, we can vote not to give the people the money if we think there is no hope to get our money back.

[hv_]

... And why not buying this DAO

https://youtu.be/ePwdFUrcS5M

http://www.avalon-life-prelaunch.com


What the fk is this?

daodaodaodao

When someone presents you with a rap video and then says "give me millions of dollars", that might be a red flag.

In the DAO, we can vote not to give the people the money if we think there is no hope to get our money back.

Great. Then nobody will invest, since this risk is latent..... As expected daodaodaodoaooo

[socks435]

Many people are complaining to this kind of altcoin but never see any potencial of this coin and i think there's no grow for this coin..
I will stay at cbx..

[r0ach]

Many people are complaining to this kind of altcoin but never see any potencial of this coin and i think there's no grow for this coin..
I will stay at cbx..

I'm going to need an English translation of that.

[smooth]

Many people are complaining to this kind of altcoin but never see any potencial of this coin and i think there's no grow for this coin..
I will stay at cbx..

I'm going to need an English translation of that.

Sig spammer who is also spamming something called CBX

[r0ach]

Many people are complaining to this kind of altcoin but never see any potencial of this coin and i think there's no grow for this coin..
I will stay at cbx..

I'm going to need an English translation of that.

Sig spammer who is also spamming something called CBX

So probably a DAO investor then...

[GreenBits]

Many people are complaining to this kind of altcoin but never see any potencial of this coin and i think there's no grow for this coin..
I will stay at cbx..

Eth has great potential. Just not right now, as an investment, because you would be buying into a peak. Also, there are governance concerns. Not for eth, for the DAO.

[mandica]

Many people are complaining to this kind of altcoin but never see any potencial of this coin and i think there's no grow for this coin..
I will stay at cbx..

Eth has great potential. Just not right now, as an investment, because you would be buying into a peak. Also, there are governance concerns. Not for eth, for the DAO.

I think there is not much difference in terms of profitability of the DAO and conventional venture funds.

[johhnyUA]

<r0ach> we are going into a liquidity crunch where liquid cash is the most valuable asset (fiat paper not in a bank, bitcoin, gold, etc) and stocks are going to crash.  Yet these guys are investing in something with the fundamental of a stock, except it has no product, no revenue, no employees, no business, no nothing.

<r0ach> so even if they manage to get that put together and develop something, it's still the same thing as buying any random stock

<r0ach> and slock.it is pointless

You would be far better off buying something on the real stock market where you can personally verify some type of fundamentals, but all of those are going to crash anyway.

Your right. But the reason of this actions is more simple - people are stupid. And they are easy to be manipulated.

[BitcoinAccepted]

Anyone want to invest in a perpetual money making machine?

The image is only a prototype as the shadowy autonomous organisation who initially invested in the project are thinking of removing the bankrupt option. It went to a vote at the last board meeting but we couldn't work out who voted for what due the decentralised nature of the committee.

Each proposed share costs half a bitcoin, a few dash and a decimal fraction of monero.

By investing you will own the rights to a signed message of a hash of a share but you can cash out to dogecoin soft toys at any time.

Mark Karpeles has been quoted describing the project as 'risk free'

Who's in?

[GreenBits]

Anyone want to invest in a perpetual money making machine?

The image is only a prototype as the shadowy autonomous organisation who initially invested in the project are thinking of removing the bankrupt option. It went to a vote at the last board meeting but we couldn't work out who voted for what due the decentralised nature of the committee.

Each proposed share costs half a bitcoin, a few dash and a decimal fraction of monero.

By investing you will own the rights to a signed message of a hash of a share but you can cash out to dogecoin soft toys at any time.

Mark Karpeles has been quoted describing the project as 'risk free'

Who's in?

I'll take 100 shares please.. hold them for me until the price tanks.

Winning.

[meme magic]

How about an automated way to lock up 10% of the tokens for a month while the bar raises high enough to drop the eth hammer 30% harder?

Oh wait no, thats a reason to sell it.

woah self bumping this now. because look at what happened a month later with 10% or the tokens and the hammer falling a bit more than 30%

fucken told ya's

[CryptoCoinWareHouse]

Waves was sddc to bittrex