Bitcoin getting bought out?

[tvbcof]

I don't feel 'violently abused' by paying taxes

That's called conditioning. If you beat a dog or a woman in the right way, they grow to not mind it and sometimes even like it. Governments, kings and sadists have known this for generations.

I say that because the amount I pay in taxes is well under what I receive back in terms of  being able to live in a functional society (and I probably pay more in taxes than a fair fraction of what the US population earns, BTW.)  Ironically I am probably more capable than most in surviving in an environment where it is commonplace to kill other people to protect what I have (and to gain more) but it is worth a lot to me to not have to live such a life.  Just not needing to see the lower third and the old people starving and suffering because they are the weak is worth a lot to me.

Now it is true that such things as the double-tap drone strikes, extraordinary rendition, security apparatus surveillance centers, etc, etc bother me greatly and I am very much against them.  But cheating on my taxes is not going to make these problems go away and indeed is likely to bring a lot of grief to myself and halt my own progress in other areas.  Funding and participating in efforts which expose and work against such abusive programs is a more productive use of my resources.

[Monster Tent]

It may only be a conspiracy but Mt Gox have a huge motive for the blockchain to become as bloated as possible as fast as possible so that "little guys" are forced out and can no longer host a bitcoin node on their own but need a centralised wallet.

I expect the "solution" to the block size issue will be the one that benefits larger services and leaves smaller players in the cold.

Certain players have no interest in bitcoin being something you can host on your own machine.

[Severian]

But cheating on my taxes is not going to make these problems go away and indeed is likely to bring a lot of grief to myself and halt my own progress in other areas.  Funding and participating in efforts which expose and work against such abusive programs is a more productive use of my resources.

That's an honorable position in the face of evil. My position (noncompliance) is different but works for the way I live. I doubt anyone will be talking either of us out of our precepts anytime soon. 

Neither position is an easy one, either.

[Severian]

Certain players have no interest in bitcoin being something you can host on your own machine.

Drive space gets cheaper by the year as does a percentage of bitcoin users that will run a full node. I don't think this will be an issue.

[TraderTimm]

It may only be a conspiracy but Mt Gox have a huge motive for the blockchain to become as bloated as possible as fast as possible so that "little guys" are forced out and can no longer host a bitcoin node on their own but need a centralised wallet.

I expect the "solution" to the block size issue will be the one that benefits larger services and leaves smaller players in the cold.

Certain players have no interest in bitcoin being something you can host on your own machine.

If that were true, they'd deploy a few international editions of Satoshi Dice

As for taxes, I'd prefer things to evolve to a system where we pay for what we truly need - community policing, etc, and only voluntarily contribute to programs that we'll either use in the future or other special interests. It would take a complete overhaul, of course, so I'm not holding my breath.

I'm wary of the payment processing move, but I understand why they're distancing themselves from being the money-changers.

The way bitcoin is structured, it reminds me of a 'poison pill', but built to take down legacy currencies. The edge exchanges show up, value is perceived and everyone starts converting their currencies. The end-game however is when complete supply chains end up having their services and products priced in BTC. Then the bitcoin user has no need to step outside the system anymore, and conventional currencies get left in the dust.

It's quite brilliant, because it leverages the greed of people to destroy their own flawed currency system.

[tvbcof]

Certain players have no interest in bitcoin being something you can host on your own machine.

Drive space gets cheaper by the year as does a percentage of bitcoin users that will run a full node. I don't think this will be an issue.

Drive space is probably never going to be the primary constraint.  I don't think that there will be much difficulty running the small fry out of the Bitcoin infrastructure biz if interest picks up and if there is a desire shared by development and relatively well capitalized players to do so.

Actually, if/when the small fry are dismissed it won't necessarily be malice or conspiracy on the part of dev and the well capitalized players.  The simple truth is that the technical challenges of scaling the system are much simplified by shifting it out of the domain of the private citizenry.  And it is probably the only practical way of meeting one set of (mostly mutually exclusive) promises made in marketing the Bitcoin solution.

[Monster Tent]

I don't feel 'violently abused' by paying taxes

That's called conditioning. If you beat a dog or a woman in the right way, they grow to not mind it and sometimes even like it. Governments, kings and sadists have known this for generations.

I say that because the amount I pay in taxes is well under what I receive back in terms of  being able to live in a functional society (and I probably pay more in taxes than a fair fraction of what the US population earns, BTW.)  Ironically I am probably more capable than most in surviving in an environment where it is commonplace to kill other people to protect what I have (and to gain more) but it is worth a lot to me to not have to live such a life.  Just not needing to see the lower third and the old people starving and suffering because they are the weak is worth a lot to me.

Now it is true that such things as the double-tap drone strikes, extraordinary rendition, security apparatus surveillance centers, etc, etc bother me greatly and I am very much against them.  But cheating on my taxes is not going to make these problems go away and indeed is likely to bring a lot of grief to myself and halt my own progress in other areas.  Funding and participating in efforts which expose and work against such abusive programs is a more productive use of my resources.

Taxation pays for very little % of the war machine. Most of it is financed through printing money. And as we all know its been a looong time since the people have had any control over that.

[vdragon]

In short, if bitcoin itself were somehow controlled by a central authority it would be worthless.

 + 1

[tvbcof]

P2P exchange.

https://localbitcoins.com/

Nobody within 100 miles, and nobody interested in more than about 1/5 the USD values I want to deal with.  Hopefully time will change that.

There are lots of reasons to expect the positive change you described, and one of these reasons is "Bitcoin being bought out" by people with vision, experience, and the ability to innovate further.
  

I'll agree with that.  I'd re-phase it as 'people flush with experience and proceeds gained in exploiting peons in other sectors.'  But fine.  Most of them will get in later than I did so they can be my bitch if they want my BTC.

[Nagato]

The way bitcoin is structured, it reminds me of a 'poison pill', but built to take down legacy currencies. The edge exchanges show up, value is perceived and everyone starts converting their currencies. The end-game however is when complete supply chains end up having their services and products priced in BTC. Then the bitcoin user has no need to step outside the system anymore, and conventional currencies get left in the dust.

It's quite brilliant, because it leverages the greed of people to destroy their own flawed currency system.

Thats what capitalism is all about. Except for the little fact that government enacted legislation to ensure that capitalism only applied to the non-financial private sector.

Certain players have no interest in bitcoin being something you can host on your own machine.

Drive space gets cheaper by the year as does a percentage of bitcoin users that will run a full node. I don't think this will be an issue.

Drive space is probably never going to be the primary constraint.  I don't think that there will be much difficulty running the small fry out of the Bitcoin infrastructure biz if interest picks up and if there is a desire shared by development and relatively well capitalized players to do so.

It will have to be network bandwidth and many people and myself have commented on this issue in the centralization thread.

Sometimes i think that the Bitcoin experiment was not so much so an experiment to see how crypto-currencies evolve and perform in the world but rather how people when given the means to fight back the status quo either use the means to fight back or give it all up.

History says they will eventually give it all up again.

[reg]

History says they will eventually give it all up again.

I don't agree with that.  Rarther history shows it has been taken from them. Given the ability "for the first time" to retain autonomy, political ,social and economically within each individual. They will I think choose to retain it. reg

[marcus_of_augustus]

Bitcoin "innovators" arriving late to the party, i.e. the ones who didn't see bitcoin coming, will almost by design not see the next one coming either. They should forever be looking over their shoulders if they are heavily or fully invested.

Also, they can centralise as much as they like, in fact we invite they do. It will be instructive to know what upgrades the true bitgold needs to achieve the optimal solution.