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Author Topic: Who pays transaction fees  (Read 5888 times)
bitcoinminer
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June 16, 2011, 04:56:14 AM
 #61

I'll just add as a final point:

Folks do understand that fees have a very real and very needed purpose?

When coins are no longer coming into the network (21,000,000 coins in 2030).  Why would anyone mine? 

They mine, because they get the transaction fees in the block they add.

If there are no transaction fees, there will be no miners, and no transactions will ever be confirmed. 

No transaction fees = No miners (at some point in the future).

Consider it a "sales tax".  You pay that on every transaction you use your credit cards for, and it's WAY higher than the fees we're talking about here for Bitcoin.  They serve a purpose, at some point they will be the only reason to mine.  Without miners we have no Bitcoin economy.

The guy is a total clown... he has no concept of economics or of the purpose of BitCoin.  In his world, transactions are powered by Sunshine and Rainbows.

Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.

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lemonginger
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June 16, 2011, 07:14:35 AM
 #62

The guy is a total clown... he has no concept of economics or of the purpose of BitCoin.  In his world, transactions are powered by Sunshine and Rainbows.

Errr you're being a jerk. OP explicitly stated that fees have to be paid, but just wondered for buyer's psychology sake if we could point that burden on merchants.

I think there needs to be a lot more work making transaction fees clear and transparent to users, but i don't think it matters much who pays them. If they become more standardized I would assume that merchants will price items so that with fee it is a nice round number, like my local ice cream shop prices their cones at like 2.87 or whatever so they can sell them for 3 bucks.
jhansen858
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June 16, 2011, 08:15:15 AM
 #63

I understand why we need transaction fees.

Quote from: jhansen858
I agree someone has to pay it.


Quote from: bitcoinminer

This is a person who is interested in a decentralized cryptocurrency who wants to regulate it and have it free of fees, and just have everybody process transactions for free, and provide their electricity and machines to him.  

Did you even read what I said? /sigh  If you disagree with my logic, then give a logical response.  Don't just make some shit up that I clearly never said.

So far the best answer I have gotten was from jgarzik who stated that it wasn't really doable.  But he never said why.


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bitcoinminer
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June 16, 2011, 04:24:39 PM
 #64

I understand why we need transaction fees.

Quote from: jhansen858
I agree someone has to pay it.


Quote from: bitcoinminer

This is a person who is interested in a decentralized cryptocurrency who wants to regulate it and have it free of fees, and just have everybody process transactions for free, and provide their electricity and machines to him.  

Did you even read what I said? /sigh  If you disagree with my logic, then give a logical response.  Don't just make some shit up that I clearly never said.

So far the best answer I have gotten was from jgarzik who stated that it wasn't really doable.  But he never said why.



I did.  Remember when I listed the hardware necessary, and the money to build such a transaction network, coming in around a million dollars?  That was the why.

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ene
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June 16, 2011, 05:26:57 PM
 #65

Did you even read what I said? /sigh  If you disagree with my logic, then give a logical response.  Don't just make some shit up that I clearly never said.

So far the best answer I have gotten was from jgarzik who stated that it wasn't really doable.  But he never said why.

Looks like you missed my post: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14789.msg218966#msg218966

You still haven't explained how your system would work. Remember that bitcoins, like cash, are sometimes exchanged between two ordinary people, not just between a "merchant" and a "consumer". How would it work in this case?
bitcoinminer
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June 16, 2011, 05:30:43 PM
 #66

Did you even read what I said? /sigh  If you disagree with my logic, then give a logical response.  Don't just make some shit up that I clearly never said.

So far the best answer I have gotten was from jgarzik who stated that it wasn't really doable.  But he never said why.

Looks like you missed my post: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14789.msg218966#msg218966

You still haven't explained how your system would work. Remember that bitcoins, like cash, are sometimes exchanged between two ordinary people, not just between a "merchant" and a "consumer". How would it work in this case?

Bitcoin doesn't differentiate between the two.  You really, really can send BTC without paying transaction fees, honest.  I do it 3 times per 24 hours.

Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.

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gentakin
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June 16, 2011, 05:43:13 PM
 #67

Bitcoin doesn't differentiate between the two.  You really, really can send BTC without paying transaction fees, honest.  I do it 3 times per 24 hours.

That's right, however the official bitcoin client - at least version 0.3.21 and a RC for 0.3.22 - FORCED me to add a fee on every transaction I've made so far. There is apparently no way in the settings to disable this behaviour.

Of course, these transactions were in the ~1BTC range and the coins I sent were only a few minutes old.

I realize it's possible to patch the client to get rid of the forced fees. I'd prefer if the client only suggested a fee, and not force it.

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Rob P.
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June 17, 2011, 12:55:26 AM
 #68

Bitcoin doesn't differentiate between the two.  You really, really can send BTC without paying transaction fees, honest.  I do it 3 times per 24 hours.

That's right, however the official bitcoin client - at least version 0.3.21 and a RC for 0.3.22 - FORCED me to add a fee on every transaction I've made so far. There is apparently no way in the settings to disable this behaviour.

So you understand the fees.  You understand why the fees.  You understand the circumstances under which the official client "forces" you to pay the fees.

You just don't like them, and would like to see them at zero (and or in the GUI have the ability to set them to zero).

Point noted.  Submit a feature request here:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues

That's how open source works.  Just whining in the forums and continuing to disagree with the "whys" people have provided, will never change anything.

The other alternative is to use a different client and/or write your own (which you've said you don't want to do).

Time to move on.

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bitcoinminer
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June 17, 2011, 05:48:58 AM
 #69



That's how open source works.  Just whining in the forums and continuing to disagree with the "whys" people have provided, will never change anything.

The other alternative is to use a different client and/or write your own (which you've said you don't want to do).

Time to move on.


I think I love you.

Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.

-Warren Buffett
gentakin
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June 18, 2011, 10:34:58 AM
 #70

The other alternative is to use a different client and/or write your own (which you've said you don't want to do).

I patched the official client to allow zero fees, so it's not a problem for me. Wink
I simply wanted to state in my post that I disagree with forced fees, even though it might prevent newbies from sending a transaction that will "never" be confirmed. No whining intended. Smiley

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Rob P.
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June 18, 2011, 10:56:40 AM
 #71

I patched the official client to allow zero fees, so it's not a problem for me. Wink
I simply wanted to state in my post that I disagree with forced fees, even though it might prevent newbies from sending a transaction that will "never" be confirmed. No whining intended. Smiley

Gratz.  Moving on.

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