Silkroad: good/bad/indifferent

[Jdumond]

I honestly think its the worst thing that could happen. lets draw a giant highlighter on Bitcoins then write "sounds like terrorism"

[1714985614]

1714985614

[1714985614]

1714985614

[1714985614]

1714985614

[Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza]

Theres no option to say that you think it is a good thing. There is only an option to say you're a tweaker. Theres a lot of people on this forum that don't do drugs, but still think it's a good thing for various reasons. I believe the usual arguments are along the lines of "Any publicity is good publicity," or "Drugs can be bought with USD too." In my case, I don't think it would've mattered, but now the media is trying to make bitcoin and silkroad look like the same thing, which is definitely bad. However, that's the media's fault, not silkroad's.

[qed]

Public opinion associating bitcoin to drugs selling is great, isn't it?

[Jdumond]

Theres no option to say that you think it is a good thing. There is only an option to say you're a tweaker. Theres a lot of people on this forum that don't do drugs, but still think it's a good thing for various reasons. I believe the usual arguments are along the lines of "Any publicity is good publicity," or "Drugs can be bought with USD too." In my case, I don't think it would've mattered, but now the media is trying to make bitcoin and silkroad look like the same thing, which is definitely bad. However, that's the media's fault, not silkroad's.

I agree with you that is definitely the media's fault. But you cannot deny the negative recourse from a drug bitcoin connection regardless if that is not bitcoins intent. Publicity is good when you start on a semi positive note, provide an image to be sullied is what the media drools over. However inherently what is not understood is feared (see senator schumer in Chicago)
 

I just wish there could have had some solid good press, on this scale, before bitcoin was sullied.

[CoinMonster]

Theres no option to say that you think it is a good thing. There is only an option to say you're a tweaker. Theres a lot of people on this forum that don't do drugs, but still think it's a good thing for various reasons. I believe the usual arguments are along the lines of "Any publicity is good publicity," or "Drugs can be bought with USD too." In my case, I don't think it would've mattered, but now the media is trying to make bitcoin and silkroad look like the same thing, which is definitely bad. However, that's the media's fault, not silkroad's.

I agree with you that is definitely the media's fault. But you cannot deny the negative recourse from a drug bitcoin connection regardless if that is not bitcoins intent. Publicity is good when you start on a semi positive note, provide an image to be sullied is what the media drools over. However inherently what is not understood is feared (see senator schumer in Chicago)
 

I just wish there could have had some solid good press, on this scale, before bitcoin was sullied.

Silk Road lead to great exposure for Bitcoin. Don't begrudge it! It's good.

Bitcoin is supposed to be able to handle any kind of press if it is to overtake anything and become a major currency. If not, then it never had a chance. This is the free market where it's survival of the fittest, and if it is truly fit, it will overcome even if powerful groups of people are out to stop it.

If governments hate it, that means it gives power to those that the governments don't want to have power. Usually this class of people are ones they're oppressing. That's exactly the case with drug users and dealers.

[42kang]

Support the free market, its how ideas blossom, silkroad wont negatively effect society. I would rather a society that was honest about being based on drugs than the society that is dishonoust about being based on drugs

[Marcus]

.
Silk Road = Good.

Many new technologies are first used for marginal or illegal purposes.
People operating on the margins of society are willing to take risks to gain the benefits.

An early use of sailing ships was smuggling and piracy.
An early use of steamboats (on US rivers) was as moving gambling parlors.
An early use of moving pictures was pornography.
An early use of the Internet also was pornography and, later, gambling.

So, if druggies, gamblers, and perverts are using Bitcoin now, that's a good indication of it's usefulness.
They are risk-takers; bless 'em for leading the way and taking the early risks.
The conservative mainstream will catch on in five or twenty years.

Finally, if government attacks and tries to suppress any new technology, then I want to know more about it.
Doesn't mean I'll jump right in, but I will have a careful look at whatever it is.
Where government isn't, that's where I strive to be.
So, while I'm not interested in buying bad drugs, I am pleased to see Bitcoin has value for people who are willing to take risks..

[kuba_10]

Even if Silkroad closed down, some people would say it's used to distribute child pornography. The Feds from around the world are considering Bitcoin a competition harmful for shady interests. Silkroad is just a mask to anti-free market propaganda. If it didn't exist, media would still spread the info that Bitcoin was used in illegal purposes or can be easily used by pedophiles. They will repeat those phrases infinitely until BTC collapses - or until we turn our TVs off.

[gigitrix]

Sillkroad represents a never really before seen public target to destroy. There is no way they intended to remain secret: it's their job to get more customers and as far as the owners feel they are pretty much invincible. This overconfident behaviour is what harms us, rather than the secret marketplaces remaining secret. I do not wish to use such services, but the of the matter is that Silk Road painted a big target on itself because it was convinced it was bulletproof, and that kind of thinking angers the governments of the world far more than the actual illegality of the operation, because they will rightly see it as a challenge. How much of this spills over into bitcoin? It's anyone's guess. It could be the first time a lot of people here of the word bitcoin, it could be the first time that alerts governments to what they see the need to crack down on. Time will tell.

[Nesetalis]

the question that remains to be seen, is.... can the US gov actually take down silk road?

I can't wait to find out.

[Modoki]

seriously, how could you doubt that seriously that silkroad is something good?
It's easy, the connotation of bitcoin and silkroad is the media's fault but won't do any harm.
I fully agree with marcus and CoinMonster.
In fact, I suspect the media to only focus on the silkroad-aspect of bitcoin because they or their readers are not capable of realizing what bitcoin really is and especially how it works. as they do not get this, the existance of a market like silkroad is the only thing they can write about which rises attention among the readers. easy enough.
greets, m

[AllYourBase]

I can't recall remember the last time I saw such a horribly biased poll.  Seriously, this is worse than Fox and MSNBC combined.

[TradersEdgeDice]

the question that remains to be seen, is.... can the US gov actually take down silk road?

I can't wait to find out.

This poll sucks.

Can I sell my dice on the silk road?

Even if I can't, I still see it as an outpost for liberty.

Men are perfectly capable of making their own decisions. 

Governments don't like that. Fuck them.

[Findeton]

Dollar supporters should be happy that drug dealers are getting out of the dollar system to use another currency. Or is the real reason that they want drug dealers to use the dollar as currency?

[Jdumond]

seriously, how could you doubt that seriously that silkroad is something good?
It's easy, the connotation of bitcoin and silkroad is the media's fault but won't do any harm.
I fully agree with marcus and CoinMonster.
In fact, I suspect the media to only focus on the silkroad-aspect of bitcoin because they or their readers are not capable of realizing what bitcoin really is and especially how it works. as they do not get this, the existance of a market like silkroad is the only thing they can write about which rises attention among the readers. easy enough.
greets, m

Silkroad directly lead to sponosoring legislation to regulate bitcoin. Directly lead to it so I dont understand your assesment.

the question that remains to be seen, is.... can the US gov actually take down silk road?

I can't wait to find out.

This poll sucks.

Can I sell my dice on the silk road?

Even if I can't, I still see it as an outpost for liberty.

Men are perfectly capable of making their own decisions. 

Governments don't like that. Fuck them.

Im glad you dont like governments, grats. Unfortunately the world doesn;t share your libertarian view.

I can't recall remember the last time I saw such a horribly biased poll.  Seriously, this is worse than Fox and MSNBC combined.

Silk road good/ SIlk road bad/humorous option. calm down.

[Jdumond]

I honestly do not understand how people could be defending Silkroad. I dont care if its a free market that arguement means nothing as it WILL NOT BE A FREE MARKET IF SITES LIKE SILKROAD USE BITCOIN TO SELL DRUGS!!!!!!

I mean free market, p2p currency, I hate the government arguements aside.

how do people not see this?


POST FROM SILKROAD

"My hope is that eventually, more than just drugs will be listed there.  Drugs are an obvious direction to go in, however, because there isn't a good market for them currently.  I have a category for weapons as well because many people are restricted from purchasing these, but no one has listed in that category yet.  It would be great to hear if anyone has ideas for other kinds of products that would fit well at Silk Road"




again, how do people not see this?

[Nesetalis]

Jdumond, it will also not be a free market if we curtail the market. By its very nature, regulating or artificially supporting the market makes it not free.

can't have it both ways man. Either you let buisnesses come and go, die off or not, or you choose not to have a free market.

Silk Road selling drugs does not change the free market, and nothing you say or do will stop them. If the fed succeeds in halting SR, well, they failed, but some one else will take their place.

Bitcoin cannot possibly regulate what it is and isnt used for, not without compromising itself. So what the hell do you suggest?

[Basiley]

think strategically.
BOTH extremes/decisions not solve problem ENTERIELY and finally.
so more serious/simpler solution needed.

[AllYourBase]

Silk road good/ SIlk road bad/humorous option. calm down.

When I posted you did not have an option for SR good.  Seemed designed to elicit a certain response.  Very sketchy practice.

[Jdumond]

Jdumond, it will also not be a free market if we curtail the market. By its very nature, regulating or artificially supporting the market makes it not free.

can't have it both ways man. Either you let buisnesses come and go, die off or not, or you choose not to have a free market.

Silk Road selling drugs does not change the free market, and nothing you say or do will stop them. If the fed succeeds in halting SR, well, they failed, but some one else will take their place.

Bitcoin cannot possibly regulate what it is and isnt used for, not without compromising itself. So what the hell do you suggest?

I understand your point. But you must see mine regardless of whether or not we feel its a good idea, free market, will get shut down, or whatever. using a new currency to buy firearms and drugs is not a good start.

"By its very nature, regulating or artificially supporting the market makes it not free"

transactions fees, and my node confirming transaction sounds like regulation to me. (even if its random and anonymous)

Is there a way I can have my client not confirm transactions for Human organs, child pornography, or weapons?
sounds silly I know but if My computer being active aided in the confirmation of the sale of a child sex slave across the world that makes me uncomfortable.


But ill stop posting now because obviously people dont agree, I just think its wrong bottomline.

"I dont like the guy, how many reasons do I have? alot....How many reasons do I need? None.  
I just dont like the guy"

Silk road good/ SIlk road bad/humorous option. calm down.

When I posted you did not have an option for SR good.  Seemed designed to elicit a certain response.  Very sketchy practice.

by my wording this arguement is fair.



If the Fed does shut down Silkroad do you think they will say, Great problem solved.

Or, Hmmm how were they able to do this? how can we prevent this in the future?
If bitcoin is truly unregulated the only way to prevent these sites would be to outlaw the use of Bitcoins, seeing as drugs are already illegal.

I just like this hobby, and dont want it ruined by a grandstanding politican who has drugs and weapon sales to provide impetus for legislation.

[Nesetalis]

transaction fees are purely freemarket as well, each pool can choose how low they will accept of fees.

however, how the hell do you think you can determine if address A sending 10 BTC to address C is buying porn or alpaca socks?

there is no possible way in this incarnation of bitcoin.

[Jdumond]

transaction fees are purely freemarket as well, each pool can choose how low they will accept of fees.

however, how the hell do you think you can determine if address A sending 10 BTC to address C is buying porn or alpaca socks?

there is no possible way in this incarnation of bitcoin.

-Which proves why the government would want to shut it down, bc they cannot trace who, what where when and why?

 -My computer either directly or indirectly contributes to the transaction, My having bitcoins builds their value to a point that people can buy porn, weapons, whatever with them. In some way or another if we are involved in bitcoin you are contributing to this practice. Whether directly or indirectly, with or without knowledge. Eventually there will be a disaster, something horrible will happen to someone bitcoin will be mentioned, and it will be over. I dont state this as fact just as opinion.

[Nesetalis]

you're logic is heavily flawed, because if you truly believed that, you would throw away every single bit of money you had irl. Because one way or another it all touches the USD, which is the primary drive behind the drug wars in mexico and south america. Thousands of people each year killed raped and tortured, and all of it paid for in the US Dolar. All of it worth something because of the trust in the US Dolar.

[Jdumond]

you're logic is heavily flawed, because if you truly believed that, you would throw away every single bit of money you had irl. Because one way or another it all touches the USD, which is the primary drive behind the drug wars in mexico and south america. Thousands of people each year killed raped and tortured, and all of it paid for in the US Dolar. All of it worth something because of the trust in the US Dolar.

Yes, but they KNOW that an attempt to regulate it, albeit not effectively.

They dont atttempt to regulate bitcoin.

My argument is that regulation is coming, and silkroad is the channel/justification they would use.

which is bad.


I appreciate you bringing up these points, they are valid and as with any coin (bitcoin joke?) there are always two sides

[mascotte]

long live the free world!

[Nesetalis]

they may or may not try to regulate bitcoin, but remember, bitcoin surpasses country lines. If they succeed in regulating bitcoin, it will mean the death of bitcoin more than likely, and something else will take its place.

[TradersEdgeDice]

Why are you worried at all what government or industry does about bitcoin?

This isn't the neophyte days of napster.  Assuming the creators are not scam artists, governments and banks and industry will not be able to do anything.

The U.S.  likes to use a heavy hand.  In the sixties, they were freezing Russian assets left and right.  The Russians responded by creating the Eurodollar market.

A really dangerous idea…  They would set up a system where one currency could be instantly exchanged for another currency.  Fast forward to the very late nineties and you have the dawn of FX markets for individual investors.

Governments do not dare to talk about currency or it will be punished by traders worldwide.  They have no more control over the value of money.  They still have influence but control has been out the window for awhile.

Who knows where this will lead?

It's obvious that the U.S.  secures their reserve currency status from the petrodollar.  I think they are more concerned about the unofficial narco dollar that would vanish with bitcoin.

Drug cartels keep liquidity in the U.S. dollar.  Very sad but completely true.

[Jdumond]

Why are you worried at all what government or industry does about bitcoin?

This isn't the neophyte days of napster.  Assuming the creators are not scam artists, governments and banks and industry will not be able to do anything.

The U.S.  likes to use a heavy hand.  In the sixties, they were freezing Russian assets left and right.  The Russians responded by creating the Eurodollar market.

A really dangerous idea…  They would set up a system where one currency could be instantly exchanged for another currency.  Fast forward to the very late nineties and you have the dawn of FX markets for individual investors.

Governments do not dare to talk about currency or it will be punished by traders worldwide.  They have no more control over the value of money.  They still have influence but control has been out the window for awhile.

Who knows where this will lead?

It's obvious that the U.S.  secures their reserve currency status from the petrodollar.  I think they are more concerned about the unofficial narco dollar that would vanish with bitcoin.

Drug cartels keep liquidity in the U.S. dollar.  Very sad but completely true.

Bitcoin is a commodity as there is no backing. Governments wont talk about a currency no, but if illegal items and practices are happening because of the movement of this commodity they will act.


I believe the arguement centralizes around bitcoin = currency or bitcoin - commodity which has definitely been discussed on the forums.

[duckfeet]

I think it's good.  Why do people care.  Is btc money or it some kind of moral statement?  Libertarians like me are happy to get us unhooked from the Fed...you *know* they will freak if the the big dope movers start moving massive amounts of btc.  This is like linux users getting their feelings hurt because somebody's writing malware in linux.  Who cares? 

Matter of fact, if the underground economy really starts using btc in a serious way--they haven't yet--it'll change the world, and rock the system...yay!!!

[VuhNilla]

Commodity, currency, luxury item, it doesn't matter, because each of those hold value. People don't go to tiffany's in New York to buy a luxury ring for $0.25, if that were the case there wouldn't be blood on the left hand ring finger of most people in the world (take a look into blood diamonds).

The fact is, that anywhere there is value there will be the underside that is crawling with maggots, and wherever a market exists, a sub-market will THRIVE.

Look at the pharmaceutical industry, a large majority of medications are opiates or narcotics, which if it weren't for the business interests wouldn't exist on an open market, seeing how they are schedule 1 drugs according to the dea (a substance with no known medical value), and this marketing of an addictive substance, albeit regulated has brought us a wonderful "epidemic" of pharma-drug abuse, and a sub-market where a $50 month of medicine ($3 if you get a generic through wal-mart) can fetch you on up to $1000, if not more depending on your area, and how tight the local doctors are on giving out prescriptions for those substances.

Why would anyone think that something with market value like bitcoin would somehow magically completely evade the sub-market (or, if you haven't caught the drift, blackmarket) if you can trade your pain pills for illegal substances (I've known dealers who would gladly take a handful of Oxycontin for a quarter of weed).

Narcotics are already regulated to the Nth degree, and all that did was increase the value of these substances. Marijuana is regulated (by prohibition, which tries to control the rate of production and sale in a submarket), and a plant is worth more than any other flower, including the tulip in 17th century holland. So, why would the regulation of bitcoin's outcome be any different?

Where there is demand, there is value, and if the demand cannot be met by traditional means, it will be met one way or the other, period.

Silk road is a manifestation of this, and it is perfectly natural.

Think of the bitcoin as a leaf, if they make them illegal, how do you get rid of them? Cut down all the trees (or get rid of the internet?)?

[BCEmporium]

For me is a good/bad thing. Has both.

Good:

It put bitcoin all over the news.

Bad:

Dragged some unwanted attention and a lot of fallacies along. Like linking btc to drugs, what would we say about USD on such grounds them? Most of the drug trade in the World is done by using USD.
Another was the hysterical or World unawareness reaction of the senators. "Drugs will flood our streets". No? Really? Aren't they already? And way way before bitcoin?

Personally bad for me:

The spikes on btc value, even if good for the coins I still have, made most of my ideas to hang while see how this will settle.
Found out also that Silk Road was using MyBitcoin, which freaked me out a bit, once I store my coins there too, as I'm not generating anymore, leaving me open to withdraw tainted coins. Add to this that the last time I'd to re-download the blockchain to my local client only 0.03 of my btc were generated by me, all other thousands of coins are away from daddy, lost in the World, and this also means I've no clue where the coins I'm holding came from or who are their daddies.

[Vinnie]

Good thing. The Feds will be coming after bitcoin eventually, with or without a drug market operating. Bring it on, bitches.

[caveden]

The Feds will be coming after bitcoin eventually, with or without a drug market operating. Bring it on, bitches.

This is probably true. All this mumbling about illegal trading and money laundering are merely excuses.

[Modoki]

you are right dudes. what the two above me said.

[rebuilder]

Where's the "it's inevitable" option?

If people can buy something with Bitcoin easier or safer than with other currencies, they are going to do so. "Good or bad for Bitcoin" doesn't enter into it. I don't see why you even bother to get riled up about something you can do nothing about.

[Meatball]

I'm probably between Indifferent to Bad.  Indifferent because I could care less what people do with their BTC, but Bad because it's drawing negative attention to Bitcoins. 

[Reikoku]

I don't do drugs any more, but I don't think Silk Road is a bad thing. At the end of the day, the governments war on drugs is completely unreasonable, and Silk Road is just one of many mechanisms against it. Most of these mechanisms do not involve any Bitcoin, so the MSMs attempt to align Bitcoin with drugs is proposterous. At the end of the day, if we want to associate things with what they finance, Bitcoin finances drugs; Dollars finance wars, murder, rape, exploitation, child abuse, drugs...

I wouldn't necessarily say Silk Road is great. I wouldn't use it, but I don't wish any bad upon those who choose to.

[NoValues]

As soon as we start deciding what is and what isnt okay to sell for bitcoins
we may as well stop using since the original idea for a decentralized currency will be defeated.

[rebuilder]

As soon as we start deciding what is and what isnt okay to sell for bitcoins
we may as well stop using since the original idea for a decentralized currency will be defeated.

If that idea can be defeated, it will be defeated. The point is, we don't have the ability to decide what can or can't be traded for Bitcoin. This is all just pointless jabbering.

[justusranvier]

Consider two scenarios:

A politician becomes aware of a new technology that is capable of enabling instant, anonymous transfers of bribes and kickbacks. Upon considering the implications of this development he -

a) immediately marshals the resources of the State to eliminate this software are quickly and thoroughly as possible.
b) is overcome with a sudden surge of appreciation for the free market and proposes only token, ineffective regulation, if any.

Which scenario requires less suspension of disbelief?

[BCEmporium]

resources of the State to eliminate this software are quickly and thoroughly as possible

Love the tunnel view and prepotency! What "State"? US? They rather let it fall quietly or if they go on open war on Bitcoin and make it State business tomorrow Bitcoin will be the currency of Venezuela and Russia, China and other US-less-friendly States will back it up.
There's NOTHING "the States" can do about Bitcoin, if I wasn't to believe those senators to be technologically handicapped, I would say they were consuming too much at Silk Road.
Gosh! Americans are often so self-centered that forget the World isn't USA and here you find people from all over the globe, nodes are all over the globe. There's nothing US can do about it.

EDIT: If US want to challenge Bitcoin they can create e-Dollars, signed cryptocurrency backed by USD that is as good as Dollars. Obviously such currency would never be actually need to be exchanged to fiat as it would be fiat itself, but by being Dollars they would put btc out of commission in no time... except that Silk Road users would find it even better to use, so to that end it would make things worse.
As always, technology is changing the World.

[rebuilder]

Consider two scenarios:

A politician becomes aware of a new technology that is capable of enabling instant, anonymous transfers of bribes and kickbacks. Upon considering the implications of this development he -

a) immediately marshals the resources of the State to eliminate this software are quickly and thoroughly as possible.
b) is overcome with a sudden surge of appreciation for the free market and proposes only token, ineffective regulation, if any.

Which scenario requires less suspension of disbelief?

That cat was out of the bag the moment Bitcoin was created. People use it to buy all kinds of things, some legal, some not. You can do nothing about it.

[justusranvier]

I'm not sure you guys are getting my point - politicians are largely on the take. The degree to which Bitcoin enables criminal activity is the degree to which the criminals in Washington DC (and other places around the world) will find it useful to keep around.

It's very similar to the situation with Tor.

[BCEmporium]

@AbelsFire

I've no reasons to believe all politicians are either corrupt or criminals.

But the economic and legal trend is by far more complex than "what DC wants".
Bitcoin is now immortal as long as there're computers, internet and people and there's actually nothing US or any other political party or state can do about it - unless if that State is up to return to caveman ages by switching off internet in it or not allowing people to hold computers. Any "call for close Bitcoins" from anybody will sound pretty much prepotent, ignorant and ridiculous.
Just like to close any open source p2p technology.