KNC Miner Declares Bankruptcy – Chinese Competition Too Tough

[calkob]

I think after the halving we will see alot more mining going out of business, which is probably not a good thing for decentralisation. 

[Gleb Gamow]

I'm just gonna leave this here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1454507.0 - while wondering when KnC filed for bankruptcy.

I'll leave this here as well: https://blockchain.info/address/1Mpce11eUTuP9mxyDixdFbJzPrdNEJkgB4

[The Avenger]

I'm just gonna leave this here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1454507.0 - while wondering when KnC filed for bankruptcy.

I'll leave this here as well: https://blockchain.info/address/1Mpce11eUTuP9mxyDixdFbJzPrdNEJkgB4

Are you saying kfc are using okcoin (chinese exchange) to launder transfer their money from Sweden to China, maybe set up a new mining operation over there? Truly living the phrase "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?"

[Searing]

I'm just gonna leave this here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1454507.0 - while wondering when KnC filed for bankruptcy.

I'll leave this here as well: https://blockchain.info/address/1Mpce11eUTuP9mxyDixdFbJzPrdNEJkgB4

Are you saying kfc are using okcoin (chinese exchange) to launder transfer their money from Sweden to China, maybe set up a new mining operation over there? Truly living the phrase "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?"

Well at one time in the past on knc forums they did say (knc) they were selling 'bulk chips' to china...so the connections probably exist.....

anyone remember this from back in the day chime in

[bryant.coleman]

This is what I hate about the Chinese. They always try to eradicate the competition and to monopolize certain sectors. Look at the steel sector. The Chinese steel mills are dumping hundreds of thousand of tons of steel, at extremely low prices. Not that these mills are profiting out of it. Their main aim is to ruin the other steel producers. The same is happening in the Bitcoin mining sector.

[franky1]

I'm just gonna leave this here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1454507.0 - while wondering when KnC filed for bankruptcy.

I'll leave this here as well: https://blockchain.info/address/1Mpce11eUTuP9mxyDixdFbJzPrdNEJkgB4

Are you saying kfc are using okcoin (chinese exchange) to launder transfer their money from Sweden to China, maybe set up a new mining operation over there? Truly living the phrase "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?"

Well at one time in the past on knc forums they did say (knc) they were selling 'bulk chips' to china...so the connections probably exist.....

anyone remember this from back in the day chime in

you got it the other way round.. they may be a swedish company. but they are giving FUNDS to china.. not chips.
in short they are BUYING chips from china

[Searing]

I'm just gonna leave this here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1454507.0 - while wondering when KnC filed for bankruptcy.

I'll leave this here as well: https://blockchain.info/address/1Mpce11eUTuP9mxyDixdFbJzPrdNEJkgB4

Are you saying kfc are using okcoin (chinese exchange) to launder transfer their money from Sweden to China, maybe set up a new mining operation over there? Truly living the phrase "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?"

Well at one time in the past on knc forums they did say (knc) they were selling 'bulk chips' to china...so the connections probably exist.....

anyone remember this from back in the day chime in

you got it the other way round.. they may be a swedish company. but they are giving FUNDS to china.. not chips.
in short they are BUYING chips from china

Hmm...maybe you are correct....but I thought that some of the chips knc had 'were' used in china miners however the arrangement

thus the connection (again others chime in...this is what I think I remember) though come to think of it that may have just been 'hoopla'

told by KNC to build them up in the press/btc world etc...they may have been in 'talks' for such..but perhaps nothing came of it but a press release

(again if I remember correctly)


edit: Yeah it seems it was 'bulk chip' sales of 28nm chips (Jupiter's etc) as to if any 'real' significant amount went to China I remember..not sure if they really sold any..just saying I thought
they had sold a mess of them...thus the China connection via this and of course as quoted above also had their 28nm chips made in china (I assume)

http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/kncminer-offers-individual-jupiter-chips-for-sale/

Anyway imho they have their 'farm' already setup to buy...probably from someone in China....with the bankruptcy...anyway would not surprise me
if they have all their ducks in a row on this..and/or their 'exchange' they are keeping (NASDAQ) would not have a piece of this pie in some manner either

(KNC: Evil it is what we do...and we do it well!) (tm knc)

[alyssa85]

The CEO of KNC has given an interview in swedish:

http://digital.di.se/artikel/knc-miner-grundaren-kina-har-fordelar-som-vi-inte-kanner-till

And there is this choice comment in it:

"We have tried to calculate the amount of money that the Chinese have invested in mining, we estimate it to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Even with free electricity we cannot see how they will ever get this money back. Either they don't know what they are doing, but that is not very likely at this scale or they have some secret advantage that we don't know about"

[Bitcoinpro]

The CEO of KNC has given an interview in swedish:

http://digital.di.se/artikel/knc-miner-grundaren-kina-har-fordelar-som-vi-inte-kanner-till

And there is this choice comment in it:

"We have tried to calculate the amount of money that the Chinese have invested in mining, we estimate it to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Even with free electricity we cannot see how they will ever get this money back. Either they don't know what they are doing, but that is not very likely at this scale or they have some secret advantage that we don't know about"

the sand wouldn't have cost them that much neither would the labour,

and if the electricity is properly sourced ahead of time in bulk supply

it to will be very cheap, their sale of mining units would have paid for

their own equipment, also exchange market cap is much higher than

the BTC price which is 8 Billion unleveraged,

[Jet Cash]

I don't understand why they needed 50 employees. Couldn't they have automated most of the processes?

[The Avenger]

The CEO of KNC has given an interview in swedish:

http://digital.di.se/artikel/knc-miner-grundaren-kina-har-fordelar-som-vi-inte-kanner-till

And there is this choice comment in it:

"We have tried to calculate the amount of money that the Chinese have invested in mining, we estimate it to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Even with free electricity we cannot see how they will ever get this money back. Either they don't know what they are doing, but that is not very likely at this scale or they have some secret advantage that we don't know about"

Also, from this which talks to some investors (translated, but you get the idea)
http://digital.di.se/artikel/knc-agaren-vi-hade-inte-koll-pa-produkten

You are satisfied with the disclosure of KNC?
"We get reports shareholders. KNC build the new circuit board. When they failed to get the right processors, they can not produce the coins fast enough. Then you are not competitive. It's a hardware play this. Like when Saab cars based on an old platform. "

[AlexGR]

I don't understand why they needed 50 employees. Couldn't they have automated most of the processes?

Plus: Couldn't they just sell equipment instead of playing the miner game?

[Slark]

This is what I hate about the Chinese. They always try to eradicate the competition and to monopolize certain sectors. Look at the steel sector. The Chinese steel mills are dumping hundreds of thousand of tons of steel, at extremely low prices. Not that these mills are profiting out of it. Their main aim is to ruin the other steel producers. The same is happening in the Bitcoin mining sector.

Yes, this exactly it is called predatory dumping and it is aimed to destroy every competition and dominate the market.
Normally after your competition is eliminated you rise the prices of your services and become a monopolist.
But what exactly that means for bitcoin as a currency? I guess not much will change. Because China already dominated the market.

[AlexGR]

BTC is different than steel though - as a market... it seems BTC demand is very high in China. So their net effect in terms of dumping and buying may be more towards the buy side. The supply would always be constant anyway.

[franky1]

The CEO of KNC has given an interview in swedish:

http://digital.di.se/artikel/knc-miner-grundaren-kina-har-fordelar-som-vi-inte-kanner-till

And there is this choice comment in it:

"We have tried to calculate the amount of money that the Chinese have invested in mining, we estimate it to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Even with free electricity we cannot see how they will ever get this money back. Either they don't know what they are doing, but that is not very likely at this scale or they have some secret advantage that we don't know about"

KNC are "calculating" based on the swedish price of rigs..

China make rigs FAR FAR cheaper. the amount china invested in their own farms is very low.
as i said on a few topics now.. for every consumer sold rig china sold, they got to keep atleast 5 themselves..

so lets do some maths.

lets pretend it cost sweden $500 a rig.. sold for $1000.
$500 would go back into producing 1000 to refil stock.. and the other $500 would go towards paying other bills like the new equipment and ficilities

however in china are a year+ ahead and already had their premises paid off a year before.

so china makes a unit for $200 and sold for $1000
$200 went back in to make another unit to sell for retail(stock). .. $600 went to make 3 rigs for themselves and $200 went to pay bills.

now imagine it this way..
sweden invests $500k to make 1000 units.. gets $1m.. pays bills and left with $500k to make 1000 units ($0 profit)
china invests $200k to make 1000 units.. gets $1m.. pays bills and left with $200k to make 1000 units for retail and $600k to make 3000 units for themselves

now imagine china.. has 2 profitable choices..
1000 stock can turn into 4,000 stock.. no personal use
4000 stock can turn into 12,000 stock.... no personal use
12,000 stock can turn into 48,000 stock.... no personal use
48,000 stock can turn into 192,000 stock.... no personal use
or
1000 stock can turn into 1000 stock 3000 personal use
1000 stock can turn into 1000 stock 6000 personal use
1000 stock can turn into 1000 stock 9000 personal use
1000 stock can turn into 1000 stock 12000 personal use

now imagine sweden
1000 stock turns into 1000 stock. no personal use, no profit
1000 stock turns into 1000 stock. no personal use, no profit
1000 stock turns into 1000 stock. no personal use, no profit
1000 stock turns into 1000 stock. no personal use, no profit