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Author Topic: Bitmain's Released Antminer S9, World's First 16nm Miner Ready to Order  (Read 503909 times)
Puffy23
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June 05, 2016, 02:26:39 PM
 #241

14Th/s sounds like a nice big number. I threw it into a mining calculator and even with free electricity and the halving reward put in it would take 200+ days. But that is with a fixed a difficulty.

I feel sorry for the folks that will end up buying one of these at the price they're currently at.

I'm hoping, either, higher hashing power machines come out, or they are made and sold cheaper.

14TH at 1375 watts? At fixed difficulty that will take 110 days... By the way all the s9's are already sold LOL. The miner is 2.5 times more efficient in terms of power to GH as the s7

You are aware that the BTC mining reward is cut in half starting July 10 right? After July 10 the S9 will perform like a 7TH/s machine does today.

If you can't math you should at least work on identifying quality calculators. And folks, never trust someone who 'LOLs' on the forums.

is it happening on july 10?  not a little bit later?

this clock is july 11

http://bitcoinblockhalf.com/


So if bitmaintech  ships on time and you get the s-9 on the 14th of june you get  27 days before the 1/2ing

So you can earn about 500 usd  in those 27days  if price and diff stays stable.

But 1 good price spike  and it goes up a lot.  so earning back 700 usd before the ½ ing  is possible.

after the ½ ing who knows.



A few points.

1. A single day is not going to make or break profit.  Why quibble over July 10th vs. July 11th?
     a. When S9s come online it will move up the halving date as the network will grow.  Maybe the 7th, 8th, or 9th.  Who cares, it's happening.
     b. If we really thought a day was important I'd point out that Bitmain ships on the 12th.  They START shipping on the 12th.  I don't know how many people will be mining on the 14th...

2. The insistence on evaluating ROI in fiat currency is deeply flawed.  This thing costs 3.67 BTC + shipping + customs/VAT.  It will take ~200 days to earn that same BTC back with 0% network growth and free electricity.  In the real world where we pay for electricity and the network grows that means you're looking at approximately 1 year.  Who cares what the exchange rate is?  You are giving 3.67 BTC (plus more for shipping, etc.) and receiving less than that back from your miner.  You are losing BTC.
     a. If you rely on exchange rate to ROI, you would have done better to simply hold the 3.67 BTC and sell it back when rates are favorable.
     b. An example: I made 15% ROI on my fiat currency with S7.  BTC increase by 50% in that same period.  Had I held the coin, I would have ROI'd 50% instead of 15%.  I could have made triple what I made by not mining.  Always evaluate ROI in BTC.
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June 05, 2016, 02:43:28 PM
 #242

Bad marks for the issue regarding not sharing the code changes. Regardless of any other pools allowing it.
It is simply bad form and a spit in the face of the CGminer license.
The issue originates with the violation of the cgminer license.

Bitmain, many people look to you for leadership since you have control over so much of the scene.
Why set an example such as this?
Further, why do we not hear from you on this?

It is a lack of respect for your user base.

Oh I have no doubt a community member will discover a work-around, but still, this continues to be an opportunity for you to show leadership and failing to do so.

You may feel there is not a reason for you to honor the license. I for one expect a response as to why? You may feel like you owe nothing in this regard, but consider the tables being turned and people were building a miner which gained a significant user base while blocking access to antpool. Do you think this would be good? Do you think it would merit a response as to why?

This is PR and with the REPUTATION you have in this area does it make sense for you to discuss it with the community?

Who am I kidding? This issue will not get traction from Bitmain.


Use this as an opportunity of good will.

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on this matter. I strongly agree with you! But how do you know they corrupted and violated the license on CGminer if the miner hasn't been released?

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June 05, 2016, 03:11:21 PM
 #243

As was noted by one of the cgminer devs earlier in this thread, Bitmain has repeatedly failed (or at best, delayed) to release the code for the cgminer implementations on their miners. One of the license requirements for cgminer, given that it's open-source software, is code must be publicly released (to continue its open-source nature) especially for any implementations used in for-profit commercial applications. S9 already exist on the network; they might not be in the hands of us peasants yet but they're already mining and generating returns for someone.

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June 05, 2016, 03:29:28 PM
 #244

14Th/s sounds like a nice big number. I threw it into a mining calculator and even with free electricity and the halving reward put in it would take 200+ days. But that is with a fixed a difficulty.

I feel sorry for the folks that will end up buying one of these at the price they're currently at.

I'm hoping, either, higher hashing power machines come out, or they are made and sold cheaper.

14TH at 1375 watts? At fixed difficulty that will take 110 days... By the way all the s9's are already sold LOL. The miner is 2.5 times more efficient in terms of power to GH as the s7

You are aware that the BTC mining reward is cut in half starting July 10 right? After July 10 the S9 will perform like a 7TH/s machine does today.

If you can't math you should at least work on identifying quality calculators. And folks, never trust someone who 'LOLs' on the forums.

is it happening on july 10?  not a little bit later?

this clock is july 11

http://bitcoinblockhalf.com/


So if bitmaintech  ships on time and you get the s-9 on the 14th of june you get  27 days before the 1/2ing

So you can earn about 500 usd  in those 27days  if price and diff stays stable.

But 1 good price spike  and it goes up a lot.  so earning back 700 usd before the ½ ing  is possible.

after the ½ ing who knows.



A few points.

1. A single day is not going to make or break profit.  Why quibble over July 10th vs. July 11th?
     a. When S9s come online it will move up the halving date as the network will grow.  Maybe the 7th, 8th, or 9th.  Who cares, it's happening.
     b. If we really thought a day was important I'd point out that Bitmain ships on the 12th.  They START shipping on the 12th.  I don't know how many people will be mining on the 14th...

2. The insistence on evaluating ROI in fiat currency is deeply flawed.  This thing costs 3.67 BTC + shipping + customs/VAT.  It will take ~200 days to earn that same BTC back with 0% network growth and free electricity.  In the real world where we pay for electricity and the network grows that means you're looking at approximately 1 year.  Who cares what the exchange rate is?  You are giving 3.67 BTC (plus more for shipping, etc.) and receiving less than that back from your miner.  You are losing BTC.
     a. If you rely on exchange rate to ROI, you would have done better to simply hold the 3.67 BTC and sell it back when rates are favorable.
     b. An example: I made 15% ROI on my fiat currency with S7.  BTC increase by 50% in that same period.  Had I held the coin, I would have ROI'd 50% instead of 15%.  I could have made triple what I made by not mining.  Always evaluate ROI in BTC.



Never evaluate roi in btc if you live in the usa  as to do so is exactly the opposite of what usa tax laws say to do.

Never compare  roi on gear to roi on buy and hold.  if you live in the usa as they are completely different under usa tax laws.

It is difficult  to have clear cut discussion on the net for a long list of reasons.  Plus we are an international multi language forum.


Please Ignore all of the above if you are not USA based. Since it does not apply to your country laws.  Just as VAT has zero meaning to me as I am USA based.



As for when the ½ ing comes you are correct in that July 7 to July 14 won't make roi much of a difference.
Buying s-9s' work for me  not buying 20 buying 6 or less makes good money sense for me.

I have enough power for six units. I can run them with zero power Risk for years.

My risk is diff and coin price.  I have no cost for psu's and I have older gear to sell off. If I sell all the s-7's the s-5 the sp20's and the avalon6's
My cost for the s-9 drops.

But if you are GB based with no gear  you have VAT to add in  and the gear is no longer 2100 it is more like 2600 or more. Plus you will need psus'.

Right now I have the two on order.  And I am mining with the older gear.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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June 05, 2016, 04:14:53 PM
 #245

14Th/s sounds like a nice big number. I threw it into a mining calculator and even with free electricity and the halving reward put in it would take 200+ days. But that is with a fixed a difficulty.

I feel sorry for the folks that will end up buying one of these at the price they're currently at.

I'm hoping, either, higher hashing power machines come out, or they are made and sold cheaper.

14TH at 1375 watts? At fixed difficulty that will take 110 days... By the way all the s9's are already sold LOL. The miner is 2.5 times more efficient in terms of power to GH as the s7

You are aware that the BTC mining reward is cut in half starting July 10 right? After July 10 the S9 will perform like a 7TH/s machine does today.

If you can't math you should at least work on identifying quality calculators. And folks, never trust someone who 'LOLs' on the forums.

is it happening on july 10?  not a little bit later?

this clock is july 11

http://bitcoinblockhalf.com/


So if bitmaintech  ships on time and you get the s-9 on the 14th of june you get  27 days before the 1/2ing

So you can earn about 500 usd  in those 27days  if price and diff stays stable.

But 1 good price spike  and it goes up a lot.  so earning back 700 usd before the ½ ing  is possible.

after the ½ ing who knows.



A few points.

1. A single day is not going to make or break profit.  Why quibble over July 10th vs. July 11th?
     a. When S9s come online it will move up the halving date as the network will grow.  Maybe the 7th, 8th, or 9th.  Who cares, it's happening.
     b. If we really thought a day was important I'd point out that Bitmain ships on the 12th.  They START shipping on the 12th.  I don't know how many people will be mining on the 14th...

2. The insistence on evaluating ROI in fiat currency is deeply flawed.  This thing costs 3.67 BTC + shipping + customs/VAT.  It will take ~200 days to earn that same BTC back with 0% network growth and free electricity.  In the real world where we pay for electricity and the network grows that means you're looking at approximately 1 year.  Who cares what the exchange rate is?  You are giving 3.67 BTC (plus more for shipping, etc.) and receiving less than that back from your miner.  You are losing BTC.
     a. If you rely on exchange rate to ROI, you would have done better to simply hold the 3.67 BTC and sell it back when rates are favorable.
     b. An example: I made 15% ROI on my fiat currency with S7.  BTC increase by 50% in that same period.  Had I held the coin, I would have ROI'd 50% instead of 15%.  I could have made triple what I made by not mining.  Always evaluate ROI in BTC.



Never evaluate roi in btc if you live in the usa  as to do so is exactly the opposite of what usa tax laws say to do.

Never compare  roi on gear to roi on buy and hold.  if you live in the usa as they are completely different under usa tax laws.

It is difficult  to have clear cut discussion on the net for a long list of reasons.  Plus we are an international multi language forum.


Please Ignore all of the above if you are not USA based. Since it does not apply to your country laws.  Just as VAT has zero meaning to me as I am USA based.



As for when the ½ ing comes you are correct in that July 7 to July 14 won't make roi much of a difference.
Buying s-9s' work for me  not buying 20 buying 6 or less makes good money sense for me.

I have enough power for six units. I can run them with zero power Risk for years.

My risk is diff and coin price.  I have no cost for psu's and I have older gear to sell off. If I sell all the s-7's the s-5 the sp20's and the avalon6's
My cost for the s-9 drops.

But if you are GB based with no gear  you have VAT to add in  and the gear is no longer 2100 it is more like 2600 or more. Plus you will need psus'.

Right now I have the two on order.  And I am mining with the older gear.

Right on philipma1957, I don't know why everyone insists calculating ROI in BTC. I buy BTC with fiat when ordering not from my stash of few BTCs I have, I record revenues in fiat because that's how IRS wants me to report earnings. So there is no reason or benefit calculating ROI in BTC for me.

Paid about the same for my B1 S7s ($1900 with shipping back in August of last year). They didn't make 8-9 BTCs I paid for them but in fiat terms they made over $1900 each. I still have them and can sell them for some $$$ here or on eBay. I would still have those beefy server PSUs for next generation of miners even if I liquidate my S7s. Now, if I had to pay VAT, buy PSUs and add $500 to my purchase price doing so my situation would have been little different.

For quality risers, splitters or 133 CFM fans, please visit my eBay listings,
http://www.ebay.com/sch/hawkfish007/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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June 05, 2016, 04:33:44 PM
 #246



Right on philipma1957, I don't know why everyone insists calculating ROI in BTC. I buy BTC with fiat when ordering not from my stash of few BTCs I have, I record revenues in fiat because that's how IRS wants me to report earnings. So there is no reason or benefit calculating ROI in BTC for me.

Paid about the same for my B1 S7s ($1900 with shipping back in August of last year). They didn't make 8-9 BTCs I paid for them but in fiat terms they made over $1900 each. I still have them and can sell them for some $$$ here or on eBay. I would still have those beefy server PSUs for next generation of miners even if I liquidate my S7s. Now, if I had to pay VAT, buy PSUs and add $500 to my purchase price doing so my situation would have been little different.

Right, but how did you calculate? did you make $1800-1900 based on btc price "when you mined them and sold them for $$" or just multiplying current price on the number of btc you got over time?

Revenue $$ is btc priceXnumber at the time you mined them, NOT at the "right now" price. If you held an asset, then sold it, it is a different beast-capital gains.

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June 05, 2016, 04:46:06 PM
 #247



Right on philipma1957, I don't know why everyone insists calculating ROI in BTC. I buy BTC with fiat when ordering not from my stash of few BTCs I have, I record revenues in fiat because that's how IRS wants me to report earnings. So there is no reason or benefit calculating ROI in BTC for me.

Paid about the same for my B1 S7s ($1900 with shipping back in August of last year). They didn't make 8-9 BTCs I paid for them but in fiat terms they made over $1900 each. I still have them and can sell them for some $$$ here or on eBay. I would still have those beefy server PSUs for next generation of miners even if I liquidate my S7s. Now, if I had to pay VAT, buy PSUs and add $500 to my purchase price doing so my situation would have been little different.

Right, but how did you calculate? did you make $1800-1900 based on btc price "when you mined them and sold them for $$" or just multiplying current price on the number of btc you got over time?

Revenue $$ is btc priceXnumber at the time you mined them, NOT at the "right now" price. If you held an asset, then sold it, it is a different beast-capital gains.



I tried calculating it per miner but after a while it got tiresome to keep track of 20 S7s at two different collocation centers, and other Scrypt miners I had (no longer own Titans). So, it is basically x number of BTCs I received X BTC value, which looks to be quite good compared to my initial investment. Of course, I spent a significant amount of it to build my 400 MH/s ETH rigs.

For quality risers, splitters or 133 CFM fans, please visit my eBay listings,
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June 05, 2016, 04:51:12 PM
 #248

to build my 400 MH/s ETH rigs.

Nice...I am limited to 240 (before Polaris) due to freakishly hot summers here, but I digress.
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June 05, 2016, 05:06:30 PM
 #249

to build my 400 MH/s ETH rigs.

Nice...I am limited to 240 (before Polaris) due to freakishly hot summers here, but I digress.


It's getting hot here too, I will have to do massive downclocking in a few weeks. Looking forward to Polaris. Too bad I won't be able to play with my S9, it's going directly to sidehack.

For quality risers, splitters or 133 CFM fans, please visit my eBay listings,
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June 05, 2016, 05:10:31 PM
 #250

to build my 400 MH/s ETH rigs.

Nice...I am limited to 240 (before Polaris) due to freakishly hot summers here, but I digress.


It's getting hot here too, I will have to do massive downclocking in a few weeks. Looking forward to Polaris. Too bad I won't be able to play with my S9, it's going directly to sidehack.

I sold off some of my r9's  and now I am mostly r9 nano's

I now have more then enough btc for a third s-9.  I may wait and hold the coin instead.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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June 05, 2016, 05:19:25 PM
 #251

As was noted by one of the cgminer devs earlier in this thread, Bitmain has repeatedly failed (or at best, delayed) to release the code for the cgminer implementations on their miners. One of the license requirements for cgminer, given that it's open-source software, is code must be publicly released (to continue its open-source nature) especially for any implementations used in for-profit commercial applications. S9 already exist on the network; they might not be in the hands of us peasants yet but they're already mining and generating returns for someone.

When has China ever given a shit about IP laws ? Why expect them to start with Bitcoin ?
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June 05, 2016, 05:33:58 PM
 #252

Comment about Antpool restriction:

Well, now we know what Bitmain thinks about decentralization..  Roll Eyes
I ain't buying this until the software is fixed and done with respect to the cgminer's open-source license.

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June 05, 2016, 05:37:55 PM
 #253

Can someone opine whether two S9 would be able to run on one 2880w PSU?
Thanks
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June 05, 2016, 05:46:45 PM
 #254

Can someone opine whether two S9 would be able to run on one 2880w PSU?
Thanks

It's been done with S7s. - not that I would recommend it. seems like S9 might sip a bit more too, but with smaller declared variance.

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June 05, 2016, 05:47:56 PM
 #255

Can someone opine whether two S9 would be able to run on one 2880w PSU?
Thanks

It should, total DC consumption would be 2750 watts which is less than DC rating of IBM PSU. If I am off, I would like to know also since my S9 is going to share the PSU with another S7.

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June 05, 2016, 05:50:58 PM
 #256

Can someone opine whether two S9 would be able to run on one 2880w PSU?
Thanks

no  unless you downclock to 13th.


but this is a complete and absolute guess.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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June 05, 2016, 07:29:20 PM
 #257

As was noted by one of the cgminer devs earlier in this thread, Bitmain has repeatedly failed (or at best, delayed) to release the code for the cgminer implementations on their miners. One of the license requirements for cgminer, given that it's open-source software, is code must be publicly released (to continue its open-source nature) especially for any implementations used in for-profit commercial applications. S9 already exist on the network; they might not be in the hands of us peasants yet but they're already mining and generating returns for someone.

When has China ever given a shit about IP laws ? Why expect them to start with Bitcoin ?

So why do we continue to do business with them?

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June 05, 2016, 07:40:56 PM
 #258

As was noted by one of the cgminer devs earlier in this thread, Bitmain has repeatedly failed (or at best, delayed) to release the code for the cgminer implementations on their miners. One of the license requirements for cgminer, given that it's open-source software, is code must be publicly released (to continue its open-source nature) especially for any implementations used in for-profit commercial applications. S9 already exist on the network; they might not be in the hands of us peasants yet but they're already mining and generating returns for someone.

When has China ever given a shit about IP laws ? Why expect them to start with Bitcoin ?

So why do we continue to do business with them?

In one equation: (Th/W)/BTC

The question is more why is the "the west" unable to produce a single miners manufacturer? I have some ideas but it's not the appropriate sub. I hope that Bitmain will correct this issue on this CGminer and realize that as a company they represent a large part of the value of Bitcoin. By this I mean that they must be great... And if they start to be greedy, the market will speak... Yes most companies that they have beaten have gone extinct, their owners may have make money or not, but in 10 years what will it be worth?

/sarc /snowflakeshield /iammorevirtuousthanyou /2692 /pixelsonscreeen
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June 05, 2016, 07:43:35 PM
 #259

in theory, yes, but you may not want to max out the PSU.  Bad PSU or damaged PSU or degraded PSU can cause damages to S7 or S9.  Saving can be smaller than what you may lose if something goes wrong.

we will upload the Kill-A-Watt photo tonight or in the morning.

and Pool wise, it does hash in Kano.is pool.  I'll try to take the screenshot of that in the late morning.



Can someone opine whether two S9 would be able to run on one 2880w PSU?
Thanks

It should, total DC consumption would be 2750 watts which is less than DC rating of IBM PSU. If I am off, I would like to know also since my S9 is going to share the PSU with another S7.

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June 05, 2016, 07:56:39 PM
 #260

Thx for the reply. Just to tell you, I think Bitmain is one the greatest company of China, the S5 proved it, again with the S7 and even more with the S9.

Bitmain: simply building the greatest miner on Earth, I hope for long.

For me bitmain is in the same situation as Intel a while back... You can only compete with yourself... The other aren't yet able to do it. But it's not a reason to let lose, or become weak.

Congrats again Bitmain for this S9 it's seem really great, and as always simply the best!

(Doesn't it looks like an ASIC chip? ;-)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Forbidden_city_map_wp_1.png)

/sarc /snowflakeshield /iammorevirtuousthanyou /2692 /pixelsonscreeen
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