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Author Topic: Bitmain's Released Antminer S9, World's First 16nm Miner Ready to Order  (Read 506453 times)
philipma1957
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June 07, 2016, 02:46:55 PM
 #381

No, the wire gauge allows you to run the higher current required for a 1600W PSU. You'll be looking at 7-8A, which you'd want minimum 16AWG (and 14AWG is better) to keep it from being a fire hazard.

yes this is the correct answer.

I run some pc's mining eth coin.  as summer power rates in my state are 16.8 cents with about 1.2 more for cooling so only eth coin makes money at 18 cent power cost.

 I run 2 card 400watts   which is under 2 amps at 240 volt power .  I am using an 18awg wire  cool as a cucumber   since it is about 1.7 amps

I run a 4 card 800 watts pc also that has a 16 awg cable  since it is 3.5 amps  and it is also very cool.


I used to run a 2980 ibm  server for 2 avalon 6's   and it had 14awg  because it was pulling  9.6 amps and is was not cool or warm  but somewhere inbetween.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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June 07, 2016, 03:22:54 PM
 #382

I like this place: http://www.cableleader.com
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June 07, 2016, 04:18:23 PM
 #383

Will these be any good after the halving?

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June 07, 2016, 04:28:44 PM
 #384

Will these be any good after the halving?

S9 will be the only miner that will be any good after halving if you are paying $.10/kWh or more for electricity.

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June 07, 2016, 04:34:13 PM
 #385

Will these be any good after the halving?

S9 will be the only miner that will be any good after halving if you are paying $.10/kWh or more for electricity.

This is most likely the correct answer.


to further explain it


todays network has :

400ph of older then the s-7

900 ph of s-f or avalon 6

500 ph of newer then the s-7 ie the s-9  

when the ½ ing comes   the older gear then the s-7  will be pretty dead.  

so 200-400 ph of useless gear.
the s-7 will be hurting  so 600-900 ph of okay gear

the s-9  will be king  say 500ph right now.

I would guess 200 to 400 ph will drop off the network very quickly in July

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June 07, 2016, 04:44:02 PM
 #386

No, the wire gauge allows you to run the higher current required for a 1600W PSU. You'll be looking at 7-8A, which you'd want minimum 16AWG (and 14AWG is better) to keep it from being a fire hazard.

yes this is the correct answer.

I run some pc's mining eth coin.  as summer power rates in my state are 16.8 cents with about 1.2 more for cooling so only eth coin makes money at 18 cent power cost.

 I run 2 card 400watts   which is under 2 amps at 240 volt power .  I am using an 18awg wire  cool as a cucumber   since it is about 1.7 amps

I run a 4 card 800 watts pc also that has a 16 awg cable  since it is 3.5 amps  and it is also very cool.


I used to run a 2980 ibm  server for 2 avalon 6's   and it had 14awg  because it was pulling  9.6 amps and is was not cool or warm  but somewhere inbetween.

Is this ok for EVGA 1300 PSUs?
I need a UK plug head.

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June 07, 2016, 05:46:18 PM
 #387

Will these be any good after the halving?

S9 will be the only miner that will be any good after halving if you are paying $.10/kWh or more for electricity.

This is most likely the correct answer.


to further explain it


todays network has :

400ph of older then the s-7

900 ph of s-f or avalon 6

500 ph of newer then the s-7 ie the s-9  

when the ½ ing comes   the older gear then the s-7  will be pretty dead.  

so 200-400 ph of useless gear.
the s-7 will be hurting  so 600-900 ph of okay gear

the s-9  will be king  say 500ph right now.

I would guess 200 to 400 ph will drop off the network very quickly in July


I keep seeing this claim that 400PH is old gear.  How is this determined?  In an earlier post you pointed to the network size last September and noted it was 400PH (before S7 and Avalon 6).

Do you really think that every miner that was plugged in last September is still plugged in today, or more importantly, will still be plugged in on July 10th?

1. Miners brick, hashboards melt, chips die.  Surely some % of that 400PH has already been replaced by S7s or Avalon 6s because it's dead.
2. Gear becomes unprofitable.  Sure, it generally migrates to lower power areas, but what about heavy units like S2 and S4?  Surely some % of that 400PH has already been replaced by S7s or Avalon 6s to chase profits and it simply couldn't migrate to a better (cheaper power) home.  I would argue that plenty of S3s have even started to hit the garbage rather than migrate.
3. Miners ignore ROI logic every day.  This thread is filled with people ignoring BTC ROI.  Why shouldn't some also ignore fiat ROI?  There are always people who will mine at a loss in the hopes of huge BTC price increases.  Surely some % of that 400PH will stay on the network regardless of profitability.

We can see downward spikes in the network today.  Surely some of that is a result of that 400PH gear coming offline as we speak.  That hash power is still being replaced by S7s pumping into the market.  Even today S7s are replacing older gear and the network flattens out, then grows.

I guess my point is that we don't know how much of that old gear is on the network, let alone what percentage will come off the network.  What I can tell you with 100% confidence that it won't be 400PH, plenty of that was replaced months ago.  I know because I lost a board on an S5.  Right there the older gear has to be 400PH - 0.55TH. 

Will these be any good after the halving?

Depends on what you're looking for.  Will it be the best miner on the market?  Sure.  Will it return your initial BTC investment at $0.1/kwh?  Not even close.
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June 07, 2016, 07:08:43 PM
 #388

Will these be any good after the halving?

S9 will be the only miner that will be any good after halving if you are paying $.10/kWh or more for electricity.

This is most likely the correct answer.


to further explain it


todays network has :

400ph of older then the s-7

900 ph of s-f or avalon 6

500 ph of newer then the s-7 ie the s-9  

when the ½ ing comes   the older gear then the s-7  will be pretty dead.  

so 200-400 ph of useless gear.
the s-7 will be hurting  so 600-900 ph of okay gear

the s-9  will be king  say 500ph right now.

I would guess 200 to 400 ph will drop off the network very quickly in July


Wow philipma1957 this is the first time I have seen anyone put numbers to the current hashrate.  Just curious where you came up with those?  Was it discussed on another thread?  I'm thinking those numbers are pretty realistic!

 I think you also have to consider the price into the numbers.  As far as paying for power to run the miners, if Bitcoin is $450/coin, $600/coin, or $900/coin also plays a part in how much gear gets taken offline.
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June 07, 2016, 07:54:45 PM
 #389



Wow philipma1957 this is the first time I have seen anyone put numbers to the current hashrate.  Just curious where you came up with those?  Was it discussed on another thread?  I'm thinking those numbers are pretty realistic!

 I think you also have to consider the price into the numbers.  As far as paying for power to run the miners, if Bitcoin is $450/coin, $600/coin, or $900/coin also plays a part in how much gear gets taken offline.


I agree, but do you really think the coin will rise when everyone will have to update wallet and address with the soft fork or their btc will become worthless? I'm looking at a crash more than anything... (unless I didn't understand it correctly)

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June 07, 2016, 08:47:11 PM
 #390

No, the wire gauge allows you to run the higher current required for a 1600W PSU. You'll be looking at 7-8A, which you'd want minimum 16AWG (and 14AWG is better) to keep it from being a fire hazard.

yes this is the correct answer.

I run some pc's mining eth coin.  as summer power rates in my state are 16.8 cents with about 1.2 more for cooling so only eth coin makes money at 18 cent power cost.

 I run 2 card 400watts   which is under 2 amps at 240 volt power .  I am using an 18awg wire  cool as a cucumber   since it is about 1.7 amps

I run a 4 card 800 watts pc also that has a 16 awg cable  since it is 3.5 amps  and it is also very cool.


I used to run a 2980 ibm  server for 2 avalon 6's   and it had 14awg  because it was pulling  9.6 amps and is was not cool or warm  but somewhere inbetween.

Is this ok for EVGA 1300 PSUs?
I need a UK plug head.

SF Cable, 10ft UK BS1363 to C13, 1.0mm H05VV-F (10A 250V)
http://www.amazon.com/SF-Cable-BS1363-1-0mm-H05VV-F/dp/B009ZJ5PCU?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

Male Plug: British BS1363 fused with 10A fuse 3P (molded with 60P PVC)
Female Receptacle: IEC60320 C13 (molded with 50P PVC)
Gauge: 1.0mm
Voltage: Up to 250 Volts AC
Amperage: Up to 10 Amps

it is the minimum .  

1.02 mm = 18 awg  and on 240 volt that can handle 1400 watts with out issues ( in theory )

having used 240 volt with 18awg/1mm  some cables fail over time

I look for 16awg/1.15mm   for a 1300 watt psu.  it is safer.


as for network numbers  they are merely an estimate.

400>900>500

why do I stick with the 400 pre s-7 ,

   because I clocked all sales of bitmaintech on their master btc addy
 I also clocked avalon's claim on the  6 sales.

if you ant to say  350 950 500 fine.

if you think it is 450 850 500 fine

if you think it is 0-1300-500 I will agree to disagree .

I know because we have the solar array .

think of the solar array as a bank cd.

you put down 100k and get back 7k a year (no bank pays that any more)

So while I have a limit to the power in the array  my price for power is 0 to 5 cents
the grid buys excess power for 5 cents.
so no gear would earn 5 cents a kwatt thus the 5 cent as a max
the array cost next to 0 to maintain thus the 0 cents.

we have 2 sp 20's and a s-5 they will turn a profit at 5 cents after the ½ing of 9 cents a day

and if you figure the power is 1 cent they turn a profit of 58 cents a day  x 3 = 1.74 a day

so people are certainly running them now and they won't after the ½ ing.

so whether   the old gear is  250ph 350 ph or 400 ph.  tons of it is going away.

if you have free power and toss out your pair of  s-5s   for a really cheap s-7  your hash goes from 2200 to 4600  your power goes from   1200 to 1300 watts.


so the old gear cheap power guys will toss out the s-5 and avalon 4.1 and grab avalon 6 and s-7.


I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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June 07, 2016, 11:47:09 PM
 #391

If you look at the numbers for the last halving, the hash rate dropped about 10% but came back to the prehalving level within a couple of months. Given the self tuning design of Bitcoin plus the fact that there have been no code changes that affect its fundamental balance, perhaps we can expect a similar effect this time.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that a 400 PH/s drop at the halving is wishful thinking. It will probably be more like 140 PH/s, and short lived (60 days or less).

That said I'm looking at this purely from the historical perspective, trusting that the built in balance factors will provide a similar result this time around. Phil computing the drop based on his estimate of various miner models currently running, which also seems like a reasonable way to approach the problem.

The real answer will likely be between my pessimistic and his optimistic number. But if you're trying to factor in the hash rate decrease for your ROI calculations, it's probably safer to be pessimistic.

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June 07, 2016, 11:53:36 PM
 #392

Looks like batch 18 of the S7 is sold out. Maybe we'll see batch 2 of the S9 soon.

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June 08, 2016, 12:27:00 AM
 #393

S9 can hash in other pools as usual. I will upload more screenshots from other pools as they becomes available.

...SNIP

Yoshi, (at least others have been calling this account Yoshi. Maybe I missed where you stated this Yoshi is using this account.)
I would have replied much earlier but have been working up until meetings started at 8: AM and am just now able to sit down and put thoughts to keyboard.

Regardless, Yoshi, thank you for posting these screenshots. As I always have given credit or been a PITA I will continue to do so. It is appreciated this was commented on, and even more appreciated that a change was made to allow this to function correctly on many if not all pools. I sincerely hope it is all pools as I think we need all of the variety of honestly operated pools the Bitcoin scene can get.

For anyone who disagreed or misunderstood my post I choose to make sure it is understood all I asked for is a statement confirming the issue and communication regarding what if any plans were in place. Anyone who has been here for the past couple of years can surely speak to the communication issues if either not experienced personally then at least witnessed others going through. I do not think it is out of line to request more work from Bitmain to establish more communications in a timely manner and it leads me more to believe this is Yoshi responding without any other confirmation because he has done a significantly better job at this than anyone else I have worked with.

My understanding is a change was made to allow the S9 to work on other pools correctly. Since Kano's CKpool is the one displayed could you share any details regarding the change? I understand if it is proprietary, but if relative to CGMiner in any way it would only be following the license and sharing such shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks again for sharing this information, and if possible to share more there are always those of us eager to learn and communicate more with Bitmain.

In this type of situation a forum presence is a huge part of Sales, service, and general continuity with a customer base. Everytime people see a positive experience they place a mark in the pro side of dealing with bitmain and are less likely to feel forced considering the other choices in the market.

I for one look forward to receiving my S9s regardless of ROI. Obviously it plays a factor, and an ever growing factor considering my current ventures but it still does not reign over timely communications and rebuilding a relationship built on trust and transparency.

Again, Yoshi has been the sole person in a Sales capacity who seems to care and show understanding of these types of expectations, but there are many others in a service role who do give an impression where they seem to care about customer service. Some even seem to have pride, and that is commendable.

I also look forward towards seeing a community relationship with Bitmain where people do not feel there is some form of conspiracy. I believe some of the most vocal forum members regarding Bitmain faults have also been some of the same people who are quick to point out good products and who are quick to be just as vocal regarding positive aspects. I personally have always tried to make sure I state pure facts along with my opinion of any situation with any purchase, political scenario, or event which either does or could potentially impact every miner, not just myself or a few others.

___________________________________________________________________

On another note, I think by now almost everyone with more than a few posts to the forum, at least the members who have been around for a couple of months realize the Pros and Cons of mining, buying and hodling, and at least the basics of calculating ROI. At their core these are not difficult concepts to comprehend. If anyone is commenting to brag about how they are going to make so much money from hodling that is great. Personally, I hope you are correct.  The same goes for miners, especially those of us shelling out thousands for these S9s. We roll the dice in a riskier mode and in many cases it may be double, triple, or more of the risk.

The problem I see is when people are telling someone they are stupidly making bad choices by mining. First, you do not know this to be true. You cannot prove this to be fact. There is past data which will indicate such in many situations, but it is not fact for the future. What is wrong with wishing someone the best when it is obvious you are not changing the person's mind. The same goes for miners talking about how much they are going to make. We have a bit better data because we know X amount of blocks will be mined, but we cannot speak to the price, or the many other variables which are completely out of control.

There are threads in speculation which are more suited to the topic of hodling VS mining, but the simple fact is we are all different and will make our own choices. It does absolutely zero good to belittle anyone for their choice of supporting the Bitcoin Ecosystem and there are many other things we could discuss and channel energy towards than this argument, again. IT is as old or older than most of us posting here. Can we please give it a rest or at least move it off to speculation because that is truly what it is. Unless someone has picked up a crystal ball your predictions are not fact.  

I for one would enjoy seeing actual past data posted. When someone purchased X amount of coins and hearing their strategy. I am also infatuated with hearing how people have rolled from one miner or miner(s) to a much larger farm today with Coin in their wallet still growing. These facts discussed in at least a friendly manner would do more to educate new miners than any amount of trashing someone because of their personal choice. That IS what it comes down to, a personal choice no different than one person deciding to lunch at Mexican, Chinese, Italian, or a Fat double cheeseburger with onion rings. It also takes all kinds to keep our ecosystem moving in the right direction which is why I do all of the above. I bought coins and hodl, I buy miners, and I do a few other things which I personally believe are places who are doing great things for our space.

I stopped being greedy for money a while back. I recognized I do not have the mindset to be Bill Gates, but I firmly believe there is one thing I am great at in my daily work and there are things which all of us should expect and give. That is striving to provide the absolute best service possible no matter what business you are involved with. Communication is THE most important aspect of such, and there is nothing wrong with demanding communication as the customer if it is not being provided and there is certainly something wrong with completely disrespecting your peers in an unfounded manner. If they deserve it, call them on their BS and don't take crap, but if they are simply choosing a different way and never hurt anyone else then maybe it isn't worth our time. I believe in taking up for the little guy and doing what I can to give someone a voice who may not otherwise speak up. I also do not see any reason to see new people come to the forum the way I did and see a bunch of infighting in the family over topics which are never going to change anything. My first experiences here at bitcointalk were enough for me to depart quickly because it appeared to be nothing but a home for scammers and a few people who seemed to hate each other. I left here and went to a forum which was nothing but a big scam.
Those are the things we should be avoiding regardless of our personal opinions of hodling versus mining. Besides, to some people there are many other aspects of mining which are worth a great deal of coin even if it isn't profit, and for others those same variables may be a superb pain in the ass and hodling is more appropriate.

I hope the goal is still one where we are showing others doing one or the other, or in some other way we show people this is an exciting place to be and is going to only become better regardless of the many mountains left to climb.


  

 

Transaction fees go to the pools and the pools decide to pay them to the miners. Anything else, including off-chain solutions are stealing and not the way Bitcoin was intended to function.
Make the block size set by the pool. Pool = miners and they get the choice.
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June 08, 2016, 01:06:32 AM
 #394

A technicality, but Bitman warranty postings has "Alex" all over the place, so unless Yoshi calls himself Alex...Yoshi is probably gone and Alex is in place.
Or, maybe both Yoshi and Alex post under bitmain warranty.
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June 08, 2016, 01:38:40 AM
 #395

A technicality, but Bitman warranty postings has "Alex" all over the place, so unless Yoshi calls himself Alex...Yoshi is probably gone and Alex is in place.
Or, maybe both Yoshi and Alex post under bitmain warranty.

I doubt the statement "Yoshi is probably gone" is anything more than a bullshit statement.  Yoshi has several data centers filled with miners and furthermore he is not a direct employee of Bitmain, more like a huge customer with significant influence.  I am pretty sure his many pentahashes did not up and blew away in the wind.

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June 08, 2016, 01:47:31 AM
 #396

A technicality, but Bitman warranty postings has "Alex" all over the place, so unless Yoshi calls himself Alex...Yoshi is probably gone and Alex is in place.
Or, maybe both Yoshi and Alex post under bitmain warranty.

I doubt the statement "Yoshi is probably gone" is anything more than a bullshit statement.  Yoshi has several data centers filled with miners and furthermore he is not a direct employee of Bitmain, more like a huge customer with significant influence.  I am pretty sure his many pentahashes did not up and blew away in the wind.

by gone, i might mean promoted to a position where he does not post on this thread in most cases.
look at the posting, pal

worker: "alex.bismedia', alex.112, etc
then look at the top right corner: does it say Alex near the logout button?
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June 08, 2016, 03:21:29 AM
 #397

Well yoshi paid me the compensation on the batch 1, but that was may 1st.  we exchanged emails and the email was yoshi  not alex.

But the last email I sent to yoshi was not answered  so maybe he has changed his duties.

back to batch 2 of the s-9  or for that matter batch 1 of the s-9  has anyone got a shipping notice on batch 1?

I know it says it ships on the 12th of June  but bitmaintech has been known to ship early at times.

I would love for them to come out a few days ahead of schedule.

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June 08, 2016, 03:59:07 AM
 #398

Well yoshi paid me the compensation on the batch 1, but that was may 1st.  we exchanged emails and the email was yoshi  not alex.

But the last email I sent to yoshi was not answered  so maybe he has changed his duties.

back to batch 2 of the s-9  or for that matter batch 1 of the s-9  has anyone got a shipping notice on batch 1?

I know it says it ships on the 12th of June  but bitmaintech has been known to ship early at times.

I would love for them to come out a few days ahead of schedule.

I hope Bitmain start shipping by the end of this week, and don't ship batch 2 until after halving.

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June 08, 2016, 04:20:33 AM
 #399

So after the S9s are shipped and running, Republicans will now finally be able to believe in Global Warming, eh?  Will these replace central heating systems in homes across the planet?  I can't imagine the kind of heat these things will put off.  Also, do they come with a complimentary set of earplugs?
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June 08, 2016, 07:06:59 AM
 #400

Could anyone recommend a power cord (preferably Amazon Prime) that would work with the Bitmain APW3-12-1600 PSU's that would work on 208v and/or 220v?  

Thanks.

I will look for one.

so the power supply end is a iec320c13

but what are you plugging it into?  


this wall plug?

http://www.amazon.com/SF-Cable-Universal-Power-Cord/dp/B0064SZ5K2?


a pdu socket takes this

http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-IEC-320-C14-IEC-320-C13-P005-006/dp/B0027JTJ22?


notice 14awg  for the sake of safety in both types

That is it, iec320c13 to USA 3-pin plug NEMA 5-15P.  I presume that 14 AWG allows me to run it on 208/220v whereas the 16 and 18 awg limit me to 120v?

Thanks again.

 5-15P is 120 volt US standard plug. The 220 volt versions are the NEMA 6 series - 6-20P seems to be the most commonly used.

 $7 for a standard power cable like that is also VERY high priced, unless it's 12 AWG or better - then it's just sorta high.

 14 AWG limits current, not voltage - IIRC 14 is rated for 20 amps or so.


 Global warming exists, but there's a LOT of question how much of it is human-caused, especially when the majority of it has been demonstrated to have happened before 1940 *AND* at least one major scientific study showed that CO2 levels LAG temperature increases by a few months, *AND* one study showed that global warming trends track the sunspot cycle length with GREAT precision (except for the couple years after Krakatoa, and a year or so after Mount Saint Helens).

 Keep in mind that the world was also a much warmer place in the 900s AD, and a much colder place in the 1400/1500s (look up the year that the river going through London froze completely, and the "Little Ice Age") - this is DESPITE there being a lot more humans around burning a lot more wood in the 1400s/1500s than in the 900s....


 Hint. I don't think ANY "climate model" in existance has taken variation of the output of the SUN into consideration - none of the ones I've ever seen mention of do so anyway.


 I don't think any of them take cryptomining into account either, but that's still a small blip on overall human power usage.




 I agree that the network probably won't drop 400 PH overnight at the halfing - but I suspect it will drop more than 140 short-term. I'd guess more like 200-250ish, as there are probably some folks that won't realise they're unprofitable for a while, a few that won't care, a few that have REALLY REALLY cheap or free electric that ARE still profitable even with S1s, etc.

 How long will the drop last? Depends on how fast Bitmain can ship S9s and if anyone else is shipping 14/16nm full custom generation miners by then and how fast any of THOSE can be shipped if so. I wouldn't bet on more than a few months, and it wouldn't shock me if that pre-halfing peak rate regained within 60 days estimate proves to be accurate.


 BTW - MY central heat last winter was mostly A2 Terminators, with some additional input from a few S5s, a SP20E, and my computers - I had to keep at least 2 windows open all winter at least a crack to avoid overheating my place.



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