Bitmain's Released Antminer S9, World's First 16nm Miner Ready to Order

[Unacceptable]

I think my mining days are completely over. Bummer, I miss the noise and extra winter heat ;-)

GPU mining again,NO MOAR ASIC's fer me!!! 

[1714019788]

1714019788

[1714019788]

1714019788

[1714019788]

1714019788

[Searing]

I think my mining days are completely over. Bummer, I miss the noise and extra winter heat ;-)

GPU mining again,NO MOAR ASIC's fer me!!!  

I'm not up on this..but what are they figuring 2 more months with ethereum mining is good yet..with the increase in difficulty etc? the that is kinda all she wrote?

curious

(on the other hand a GPU card gets about 2x the $$$ then 1 Titan cube at 2x the price at least how I figured it a month ago...probably Titan cube is not that quite that bad now)

[AriesIV10]

I think my mining days are completely over. Bummer, I miss the noise and extra winter heat ;-)

Mining is just getting interesting.  

[Masha Sha]

good to see that hopes are high but on the other hand, some might be too "high" on what ever that 1 might be smoking, eating or drinking . . .

if 1 thinks//assumes//calculates//hopes :

-BTC price to go up & MAINTAIN at a certain value (what if it doesn't hold long enough for 1 to achieve ROI & make a little profit ?)

-if 1 thinks that if he/she is the ONLY 1 who knows how to mine/upgrade using an S9 & sell off older miners then it's very wrong, because it is the BIG boys game now UNLESS 1 have almost ZERO to NONE maint. costs. & many others will also know to do so too "technically" the global hashrate stays pretty much the same or if not it may even go up !

-hmmm i don't even want to add in downtime such as warranty claims, broken psu or catches fire, fan separation or what so ever & we all know that it's gonna take some time to get the parts back from warranty let alone a reply from the manufacturer, i hope 1 takes this into consideration when it comes to ROI.

-most guys calc the ROI based on 100% luck mining at pool, not everyday is sunday mate, take that into account too.

bla bla bla & the lists goes on & on, not trying to be a bit*H here & i hope someone does look into those points as a +ve 1.

in the meanwhile, leaning back, munching the popcorns & wait for a drop, might get 1 or a few when time is right.

Thank you for the post, one of the best description on the reality of mining... I could add some points to the lists easy.

I am sure you will be back

I think my mining days are completely over. Bummer, I miss the noise and extra winter heat ;-)

GPU mining again,NO MOAR ASIC's fer me!!! 

I am sure you will be back!

I think my mining days are completely over. Bummer, I miss the noise and extra winter heat ;-)

Mining is just getting interesting. 

Small time miner have the advantage to be able to use the heat...

[AriesIV10]

They are no longer for sale on the website.  Are they sold out?

[edonkey]

They are no longer for sale on the website.  Are they sold out?

Yes. Consider yourself lucky.

Hopefully we won't have to wait too many batches before the price makes sense.

[QuintLeo]

Is there anything even remotely close to this performance?

 Bitfury's chip has demonstrated comparable performance, if they ever get the bloody thing into MINERS available for sale - depending on how hard they push for hash/chip vs efficiency, they could IN THEORY top the S9 efficiency.

 On the other hand, Bitmain is probably not running THEIR new chip at max efficiency, it was amazing the initial batches of the S7 showed up at the mid-point of the chip's operating range rather than at the top of the voltage range / least efficient point like the later, lower-chip-count batches went to.



 I suspect that "yield limit" issues are behind the low available numbers (so far) on the S9. I'm sure the numbers will ramp up with each batch - not to mention they probably kept quite a few (probably a majority) of the initial month or two of unit manufacture for internal farm/Hashnest use.

[BitTraderCute]

anyone can calculate how long can take profit after halving

[Unacceptable]

anyone can calculate how long can take profit after halving

Let me look into my crystal balls,yep gonna be winter for 7 more weeks 

[zalucia]

They are no longer for sale on the website.  Are they sold out?

They are sold out. So you are lucky to get you. But you might not get ROI if the difficulty rises too fast.

[d57heinz]

And btc keeps rising..  about 120$ per machine roi had one bought coin instead of s9.  Same happen with s7.  hmmmm

This is still about making money correct?? Not loaning it out for 12 months with hopes of some interest.  Or the hopes of dumping it on some poor math inept individual.

Best Regards
d57heinz

[s1gs3gv]

And btc keeps rising..  about 120$ per machine roi had one bought coin instead of s9.  Same happen with s7.  hmmmm

This is still about making money correct?? Not loaning it out for 12 months with hopes of some interest.  Or the hopes of dumping it on some poor math inept individual.

Best Regards
d57heinz

Doooode, are you the only punter here who doesn't realize that BTC is going to be worth a gazillion dollars real soon now ?

[813bits]

When the next batch of S9's become available and assuming that the price will still be 2100 USD (I am not intending on starting a debate on what the price will be), does Bitmain adjust the BTC amount to reflect the current exchange rate of BTC/USD? 

[bctmke]

When the next batch of S9's become available and assuming that the price will still be 2100 USD (I am not intending on starting a debate on what the price will be), does Bitmain adjust the BTC amount to reflect the current exchange rate of BTC/USD? 

Generally yes.  BUT they only do it once per batch from what I've noticed (mind you I dont pay real close attention).

So they set the price when the batch is made available for purchase and the BTC cost stays the same (even if the BTC/USD price changes) until the next.

[Puffy23]

It looks like I'll cover 75% of the cost by selling 3 S7's  -- So it is a no-brainer  -- if I can get stock

Well, I don't see how this is actually a no-brainer.  You are exchanging 14TH/s for a more efficient 14TH/s, not actually increasing your hash rate.  With the sale of your S7s covering 75% of the cost to upgrade you are still paying a minimum of $525 for that increased efficiency.  That's if you had already taken into account the shipping and customs/VAT <- depending on location.  If you simply mean 75% of $2,100 you are probably likely paying close to $600 for that increased efficiency.

The average cost to run 3 S7s for a month is $180 from what I've experienced and what I've seen other share.  The S9 will potentially lower that bill to $60.  That means you are saving $120/month with the S9 in place of the 3 S7.  So that efficiency upgrade will, by itself, will take 5 months to ROI.

But that isn't the end of the story.  Have you already hit ROI on your S7s?  If not, you didn't pay one investment off before buying another.  That means whatever you had left to ROI on the S7s must be accomplished by the S9.  The S9 can concurrently contribute to both the efficiency upgrade and the initial investment which does help out.  Depending on the batch of S7s you could have anywhere between 0-7 months of hashing remaining to ROI.

Best case scenario, you already hit ROI on a triple Batch 1 S7 setup and can focus the entire profit of the S9 into that $500-$600 investment for energy efficiency.  In this case, you're right, no-brainer.  That would be a quick 2 month ROI.  Worst case scenario you still have 5-7 months to ROI on your current S7 setup.  This would mean your shortest ROI period is 5 months, with the longest being approximately 6 months (5 months to ROI on the energy savings investment running concurrently with the 5 months to ROI on the initial investment.  After 5 months, the energy savings can then be applied to the initial investment closing the gap from 2 remaining months to potentially a single month).

So without knowing exactly what batch S7 you have or the remaining months to ROI on that investment it is hard to say, but you could be facing anything from 2 months to 6 months to ROI.  As you're selling your S7 now, that timer won't start until you receive the S9.

I don't see how anything about that was a no-brainer.  I would have to give serious thought about taking on a 6 month ROI.  That's quite a bit of risk considering all the variables and potential for failure and having every egg in a single S9 basket.

[QuintLeo]

anyone can calculate how long can take profit after halving

 Anyone can ESTIMATE it - but there are a lot of variables involved, and 2 of them (network hashrate which sets difficulty) and price are going to be guesstimates at BEST.

 Very few folks anticipated the release of the S7 driving difficulty back into double-digit increases per adjustment for several MONTHS - which wiped out the price gains and then some over that same time frame, though the price gains were a lot faster which gave a short-lived "income increase" to those of us that were mining at the time.

There is always a RISK factor involved in mining - the risk that diff will go up more than price (or that price will DROP) and reduce profitability enough to make an investment into mining hardware lose money. That risk is helped a LOT if you have very low cost electric, as your profit is more resistant to diff increases and price drops, and it *ALMOST* disappears if your electric is free (you still have the risk of the hardware dying before it pays back for itself), but it's still there and you CAN'T "calculate" it, you can only ESTIMATE it.

[suchmoon]

When the next batch of S9's become available and assuming that the price will still be 2100 USD (I am not intending on starting a debate on what the price will be), does Bitmain adjust the BTC amount to reflect the current exchange rate of BTC/USD? 

Generally yes.  BUT they only do it once per batch from what I've noticed (mind you I dont pay real close attention).

So they set the price when the batch is made available for purchase and the BTC cost stays the same (even if the BTC/USD price changes) until the next.

In the past there have been two ways Bitmain sets the price: USD (and BTC price floats according to the exchange rate) or BTC (and USD price floats).

S9 B1 price was set in USD and the BTC price was floating. The exchange rate is at the bottom of every page on the Bitmain website. It might be lagging from the usual Bitstamp/Coinbase/etc rates, often in Bitmain's favor , but generally accurate.

How they will set B2 price is anybody's guess.

[d57heinz]

*cough**cough* buy some bitcoin muddles under his breath *cough*cough*  https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/coinbase/btcusd

 

edit. maybe just something around 10 20% of what you would have put on batch 1..This has some great upside potential yet.  IMO 700 - 800.  but take that with grain of salt:)

Best Regards
d57heinz

[SaBit]

No -- It really is a no-brainer vs keeping the S7's Running


My Calculations include shipping, customs and leave a little spare -- 3 Machines - $180 per month - Where do you find power costs like that?   --  Each Machine uses around 1000Kwh per month $110 per month to run each  -- that is a saving of $220 per month  -- 2 months pretty much pays the difference no matter what happens to the price or difficulty

Return on investment on the S7's MEH -- Not really important for the decision to upgrade.   ROI on the cost of the upgrade (in power savings) is in 2.5 months tops  -- ROI on the total cost  --- I don't really care

It looks like I'll cover 75% of the cost by selling 3 S7's  -- So it is a no-brainer  -- if I can get stock

Well, I don't see how this is actually a no-brainer.  You are exchanging 14TH/s for a more efficient 14TH/s, not actually increasing your hash rate.  With the sale of your S7s covering 75% of the cost to upgrade you are still paying a minimum of $525 for that increased efficiency.  That's if you had already taken into account the shipping and customs/VAT <- depending on location.  If you simply mean 75% of $2,100 you are probably likely paying close to $600 for that increased efficiency.

The average cost to run 3 S7s for a month is $180 from what I've experienced and what I've seen other share.  The S9 will potentially lower that bill to $60.  That means you are saving $120/month with the S9 in place of the 3 S7.  So that efficiency upgrade will, by itself, will take 5 months to ROI.

But that isn't the end of the story.  Have you already hit ROI on your S7s?  If not, you didn't pay one investment off before buying another.  That means whatever you had left to ROI on the S7s must be accomplished by the S9.  The S9 can concurrently contribute to both the efficiency upgrade and the initial investment which does help out.  Depending on the batch of S7s you could have anywhere between 0-7 months of hashing remaining to ROI.

Best case scenario, you already hit ROI on a triple Batch 1 S7 setup and can focus the entire profit of the S9 into that $500-$600 investment for energy efficiency.  In this case, you're right, no-brainer.  That would be a quick 2 month ROI.  Worst case scenario you still have 5-7 months to ROI on your current S7 setup.  This would mean your shortest ROI period is 5 months, with the longest being approximately 6 months (5 months to ROI on the energy savings investment running concurrently with the 5 months to ROI on the initial investment.  After 5 months, the energy savings can then be applied to the initial investment closing the gap from 2 remaining months to potentially a single month).

So without knowing exactly what batch S7 you have or the remaining months to ROI on that investment it is hard to say, but you could be facing anything from 2 months to 6 months to ROI.  As you're selling your S7 now, that timer won't start until you receive the S9.

I don't see how anything about that was a no-brainer.  I would have to give serious thought about taking on a 6 month ROI.  That's quite a bit of risk considering all the variables and potential for failure and having every egg in a single S9 basket.

[Puffy23]

No -- It really is a no-brainer vs keeping the S7's Running


My Calculations include shipping, customs and leave a little spare -- 3 Machines - $180 per month - Where do you find power costs like that?   --  Each Machine uses around 1000Kwh per month $110 per month to run each  -- that is a saving of $220 per month  -- 2 months pretty much pays the difference no matter what happens to the price or difficulty

Return on investment on the S7's MEH -- Not really important for the decision to upgrade.   ROI on the cost of the upgrade (in power savings) is in 2.5 months tops  -- ROI on the total cost  --- I don't really care

It looks like I'll cover 75% of the cost by selling 3 S7's  -- So it is a no-brainer  -- if I can get stock

Well, I don't see how this is actually a no-brainer.  You are exchanging 14TH/s for a more efficient 14TH/s, not actually increasing your hash rate.  With the sale of your S7s covering 75% of the cost to upgrade you are still paying a minimum of $525 for that increased efficiency.  That's if you had already taken into account the shipping and customs/VAT <- depending on location.  If you simply mean 75% of $2,100 you are probably likely paying close to $600 for that increased efficiency.

The average cost to run 3 S7s for a month is $180 from what I've experienced and what I've seen other share.  The S9 will potentially lower that bill to $60.  That means you are saving $120/month with the S9 in place of the 3 S7.  So that efficiency upgrade will, by itself, will take 5 months to ROI.

But that isn't the end of the story.  Have you already hit ROI on your S7s?  If not, you didn't pay one investment off before buying another.  That means whatever you had left to ROI on the S7s must be accomplished by the S9.  The S9 can concurrently contribute to both the efficiency upgrade and the initial investment which does help out.  Depending on the batch of S7s you could have anywhere between 0-7 months of hashing remaining to ROI.

Best case scenario, you already hit ROI on a triple Batch 1 S7 setup and can focus the entire profit of the S9 into that $500-$600 investment for energy efficiency.  In this case, you're right, no-brainer.  That would be a quick 2 month ROI.  Worst case scenario you still have 5-7 months to ROI on your current S7 setup.  This would mean your shortest ROI period is 5 months, with the longest being approximately 6 months (5 months to ROI on the energy savings investment running concurrently with the 5 months to ROI on the initial investment.  After 5 months, the energy savings can then be applied to the initial investment closing the gap from 2 remaining months to potentially a single month).

So without knowing exactly what batch S7 you have or the remaining months to ROI on that investment it is hard to say, but you could be facing anything from 2 months to 6 months to ROI.  As you're selling your S7 now, that timer won't start until you receive the S9.

I don't see how anything about that was a no-brainer.  I would have to give serious thought about taking on a 6 month ROI.  That's quite a bit of risk considering all the variables and potential for failure and having every egg in a single S9 basket.

I'm in North Texas on a 100% wind plan that is $0.067/kWh. The guys on coal are getting a slightly better deal and farms are at half that cost using commercial accounts. If you're trying to mine at >$.1/kWh I could understand paying $500 for efficiency. Then again, if you're mining at those rates you're never going to get your BTC back anyway. Which explains your closing statement.

Most people care whether they make their money back so this isn't a no-brainer for most people.