How are people getting their Trade Information with everything so slow?

[muyuu]

Too much short-term scalping going on.

Whats wrong with scalping? It adds liquidity and removes volatility.

Nothing wrong with it, except having a good deal of the bitcoin community obsessed with it and neglecting the rest of the activity, including many tasks that are still pending. And obviously real btc-for-goods/services commerce.

[humanitee]

Too much short-term scalping going on.

Whats wrong with scalping? It adds liquidity and removes volatility.

Removes volatility? Please pass what you are smoking.

[cypherdoc]

you guys should try btccharts.com.  it kept me up to date during the whole move yesterday.  lots of great features too.

[muyuu]

you guys should try btccharts.com.  it kept me up to date during the whole move yesterday.  lots of great features too.

Can't try for free.

Just wasted time choosing a login/pass, activating it by email and then it tells me the pricing.

That kind of shit doesn't fly with me. If you're going to charge me tell me how much beforehand so I make a decision and don't waste my time.

[Bitobsessed]

you guys should try btccharts.com.  it kept me up to date during the whole move yesterday.  lots of great features too.

Can't try for free.

Just wasted time choosing a login/pass, activating it by email and then it tells me the pricing.

That kind of shit doesn't fly with me. If you're going to charge me tell me how much beforehand so I make a decision and don't waste my time.

I agree.  I even went to their forums and I still cannot find any pricing.  Oh well, maybe I will try bitcoin-analytics.com

[prof7bit]

Too much short-term scalping going on.

Whats wrong with scalping? It adds liquidity and removes volatility.

Removes volatility? Please pass what you are smoking.

I have smoked some basic logic: Scalping is converting volatility into profit (for the scalper). Since there is no such thing as a perpetuum mobile it must therefore *reduce* volatility until no profit can be made from it anymore.

[humanitee]

Yeah sure, when people panic sell at $33 after it was at $49, that definitely removes volatility.

Just kidding, that causes volatility.
Noobs racing to the door does not somehow improve the market. It just wreaks havoc for merchants and makes Bitcoin look silly to outsiders.

[muyuu]

Too much short-term scalping going on.

Whats wrong with scalping? It adds liquidity and removes volatility.

Removes volatility? Please pass what you are smoking.

I have smoked some basic logic: Scalping is converting volatility into profit (for the scalper). Since there is no such thing as a perpetuum mobile it must therefore *reduce* volatility until no profit can be made from it anymore.

Generally I'd agree. But too much of a good thing can be bad.

Too many people are fucking obsessed in scalping a few satoshis and they don't do anything else that could benefit the community a lot more.

Sure they are free to try, but what we're seeing is the market telling them this is a competitive market already and there is lower hanging fruit elsewhere. Getting wiped months of profits in one go is the invisible hand of the market pointing you the way and telling you to fuck off.

Attacks are part of the market too aren't they.

Yeah sure, when people panic sell at $33 after it was at $49, that definitely removes volatility.

Just kidding, that causes volatility.
Noobs racing to the door does not somehow improve the market. It just wreaks havoc for merchants and makes Bitcoin look silly to outsiders.

Well, that's not scalping. I think you are referring to HFT in general.

[humanitee]

Scalping is pretty much speculating. My statement stands.

[prof7bit]

Yeah sure, when people panic sell at $33 after it was at $49, that definitely removes volatility.

Without many scalpers who have their orders on both sides of the book (real orders from real scalpers with the intention to be filled, not fake and bait orders from quote stuffers), orders that absorb parts of the panic-volume (and convert the loss of the n00bs into profits for themselves) it would drop even faster and much further on every temporary panic event.

[humanitee]

I'm going to argue that people selling at those low prices are noobs either panicking their faces off or speculators hoping to capitalize on other speculators and the noobs.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

[crazy_rabbit]

I'm going to argue that people selling at those low prices are noobs either panicking their faces off or speculators hoping to capitalize on other speculators and the noobs.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

I don't think it's fair to describe all panicers as noobs. I think it's legitimate to panic about if you know the market is moving- FAST and moving DOWN, but there is no way to get any timely information regarding market. Being in the dark is scary, for anyone. Because the market is limited with regards to how much FIAT can enter it, and the rate at which is can enter, but it's almost unlimited in the ability for fiat to LEAVE the market and the rate at which it leaves, it's a de-facto panic situation for everyone.

This is 'digital' money without a central issuer or backing. If the services that tell you it exists, stop giving you feedback about it's existence, you naturally panic. Because unless something says it's exists, it by default doesn't. Hence the panic.

It's really all GOX's fault though. They need to step it up. Millions of dollars are passing through them. It's totally unacceptable. We might be high volume, but we are nothing compared to Twitter or tumblr. They need to fix this, and fast.

[humanitee]

I'm going to argue that people selling at those low prices are noobs either panicking their faces off or speculators hoping to capitalize on other speculators and the noobs.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

I don't think it's fair to describe all panicers as noobs. I think it's legitimate to panic about if you know the market is moving- FAST and moving DOWN, but there is no way to get any timely information regarding market. Being in the dark is scary, for anyone. Because the market is limited with regards to how much FIAT can enter it, and the rate at which is can enter, but it's almost unlimited in the ability for fiat to LEAVE the market and the rate at which it leaves, it's a de-facto panic situation for everyone.

This is 'digital' money without a central issuer or backing. If the services that tell you it exists, stop giving you feedback about it's existence, you naturally panic. Because unless something says it's exists, it by default doesn't. Hence the panic.

It's really all GOX's fault though. They need to step it up. Millions of dollars are passing through them. It's totally unacceptable. We might be high volume, but we are nothing compared to Twitter or tumblr. They need to fix this, and fast.

Nice response. I agree on most counts.

As a veteran at this point (lol) I just expect Gox to break during episodes like this. I hope Coinlab can step it up.
I still think those panicking are noobs. 

[crazy_rabbit]

I'm going to argue that people selling at those low prices are noobs either panicking their faces off or speculators hoping to capitalize on other speculators and the noobs.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

I don't think it's fair to describe all panicers as noobs. I think it's legitimate to panic about if you know the market is moving- FAST and moving DOWN, but there is no way to get any timely information regarding market. Being in the dark is scary, for anyone. Because the market is limited with regards to how much FIAT can enter it, and the rate at which is can enter, but it's almost unlimited in the ability for fiat to LEAVE the market and the rate at which it leaves, it's a de-facto panic situation for everyone.

This is 'digital' money without a central issuer or backing. If the services that tell you it exists, stop giving you feedback about it's existence, you naturally panic. Because unless something says it's exists, it by default doesn't. Hence the panic.

It's really all GOX's fault though. They need to step it up. Millions of dollars are passing through them. It's totally unacceptable. We might be high volume, but we are nothing compared to Twitter or tumblr. They need to fix this, and fast.

Nice response. I agree on most counts.

As a veteran at this point (lol) I just expect Gox to break during episodes like this. I hope Coinlab can step it up.
I still think those panicking are noobs. 

Thanks, I was typing fast and I realize that was nearly incomprehensible due to mistakes. :-)

[Bit_Happy]

Day traders who go against the short-term trend reduce volatility.
People who "play the breakout" (without waiting for a pull-back) or "trade in the current direction" are likely to increase volatility.

...scalpers increase volatility...

"Scalpers" (by definition) would both buy and sell within a short time/price move, how exactly does that increase volatility?  

[humanitee]

Day traders who go against the short-term trend reduce volatility.
People who "play the breakout" (without waiting for a pull-back) or "trade in the current direction" are likely to increase volatility.

...scalpers increase volatility...

"Scalpers" (by definition) would both buy and sell within a short time/price move, how exactly does that increase volatility?  

Who can fuck each other the hardest, that's how.
"You sold yours now? I'll sell mine below you and hope someone sells below me. We'll scalp together bro!"

I hope the strong hands caught the fall.

[bzzard]

I agree.  I even went to their forums and I still cannot find any pricing.

Good point - there ya go: http://btccharts.com/forum/index.php?topic=447.msg620

Oh well, maybe I will try bitcoin-analytics.com

...rrrright!

[baggyp]

I'm going to argue that people selling at those low prices are noobs either panicking their faces off or speculators hoping to capitalize on other speculators and the noobs.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

I don't think it's fair to describe all panicers as noobs. I think it's legitimate to panic about if you know the market is moving- FAST and moving DOWN, but there is no way to get any timely information regarding market. Being in the dark is scary, for anyone. Because the market is limited with regards to how much FIAT can enter it, and the rate at which is can enter, but it's almost unlimited in the ability for fiat to LEAVE the market and the rate at which it leaves, it's a de-facto panic situation for everyone.

Well by definition they are newbs. Maybe not 'n00bz' but the panic sellers are often those who haven't watched the coin long enough to know daily ups and downs are our bread and butter.

Because of the latter, scalpers increase volatility for no good reason other than to increase the volatility to make a profit.

Absolutely. The bitcoin has such strong momentum that smart traders with deep pockets have recognized that movement in either direction often takes a while to stop. Long enough for them to capitalize.

Yeah sure, when people panic sell at $33 after it was at $49, that definitely removes volatility.

Without many scalpers who have their orders on both sides of the book (real orders from real scalpers with the intention to be filled, not fake and bait orders from quote stuffers), orders that absorb parts of the panic-volume (and convert the loss of the n00bs into profits for themselves) it would drop even faster and much further on every temporary panic event.

I think you are pretty right here. It's nearly habitual.

Yeah sure, when people panic sell at $33 after it was at $49, that definitely removes volatility.

Just kidding, that causes volatility.
Noobs racing to the door does not somehow improve the market. It just wreaks havoc for merchants and makes Bitcoin look silly fucking terrifying and wonderous to behold to outsiders.

FTFY

[muyuu]

I agree.  I even went to their forums and I still cannot find any pricing.

Good point - there ya go: http://btccharts.com/forum/index.php?topic=447.msg620

Oh well, maybe I will try bitcoin-analytics.com

...rrrright!

Well, with bitcoin-analytics I know what I'd be paying for and btccharts tries to lure me into registering only to tell me afterwards that it's a pay site and I cannot even get a glimpse of the service. That kind of scumbag behaviour puts me off, so bitcoin-analytics it is for now.