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Author Topic: 2013-03-06 BitCoin Ponzi Scheme by Chris Duane (Truthnevertold)  (Read 3666 times)
apetersson
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March 07, 2013, 01:20:19 PM
 #1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKC7iaBKvs
Quote
With Bitcoin up to $48 I think it is time to separate the hype from reality.
This is a Part 1 of a two part series on the Bitcoin.
Listen to all.
Follow none.
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apetersson
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March 07, 2013, 01:28:56 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2013, 02:30:01 PM by apetersson
 #2

he cited an interesting quote at the beginning:

"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value -- zero."
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/Voltaire.Quote.2BC6

i did not know this insight is that old. I'm adding that to my quotes repository.
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March 07, 2013, 01:36:27 PM
 #3

Another idiot gold/silver bug. Just one problem: he called it a ponzi scheme in 2011 - then there was the crash. Unfortunately now its trading above the 2011 highs.. ponzi schemes don't recover after a crash. Thats the definition of one- run out of suckers the system collapses to zero as it has no value beyond the scam.

Therefore he's clearly wrong as proven by the facts. Next!  Grin

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March 07, 2013, 01:40:58 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2013, 02:29:48 PM by apetersson
 #4

of course i completely disagree with the video, just stumbled on it on youtube.

even the ECB disagrees in Bitcoin being a Ponzi by its definition.

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing
investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new
investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little
or no risk.In many Ponzischemes, the fraudstersfocus on attracting new money to make promised
payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any
legitimate investment activity.14

On the one hand, the Bitcoin scheme is a decentralised system where – at least in theory – there
is no central organiser that can undermine the system and disappear with its funds. Bitcoin users
buy and sell the currency among themselves without any kind of intermediation and therefore, it
seems that nobody benefits from the system, apart from those who benefit from the exchange rate
evolution (just as in any other currency trade) or those who are hard-working “miners” and are
therefore rewarded for their contribution to the security and confidence in the system as a whole.
Moreover, the scheme does not promise high returns to anybody. Although some Bitcoin users may
try to profit from exchange rate fluctuations, Bitcoins are not intended to be an investment vehicle,
just a medium of exchange. On the contrary, Gavin Andresen, Lead Developer of the Bitcoin
virtual currency project, does not hesitate to say that “Bitcoin is an experiment. Treat it like you
would treat a promising internet start-up company: maybe it will change the world, but realise that
investing your money or time in new ideas is always risky”.15 In addition, Bitcoin supporters claim
that it is an open-source system whose code is available to any interested party
i omitted the bogus counter-aruments Smiley
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March 07, 2013, 02:21:14 PM
 #5

No. Pirate was a ponzi. Bitcoin is a currency. Ever watch silver trade? It has bubbles and crashes just like bitcoin, yet it's definitely no ponzi.
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March 07, 2013, 02:31:00 PM
 #6

rebuttal by BrotherjohnF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNLSvd4LyP8
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March 07, 2013, 02:36:29 PM
 #7

"Ponzi scheme" has a definition which people are happy to ignore in order to spread whatever shit it is they are peddling.

An increasing exchange rate due to influx of new users is not enough to fit the definition. The fact that Bitcoin is open source and one can learn everything there is to know about it, if they so desire, should be a clue.

Oh, my arguments may be irrelevant because I'm not going to waste my time beyond this post and won't click the link in the OP.

Don't bother posting more indeed, what you wrote is a nice summary and it should be good enough.
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March 07, 2013, 02:47:14 PM
 #8

Another idiot gold/silver bug. Just one problem: he called it a ponzi scheme in 2011 - then there was the crash. Unfortunately now its trading above the 2011 highs.. ponzi schemes don't recover after a crash. Thats the definition of one- run out of suckers the system collapses to zero as it has no value beyond the scam.

Therefore he's clearly wrong as proven by the facts. Next!  Grin

Precisely.

Also ponzi schemes usually don't involve handing out the very thing that you want the person to 'buy in' on. Its more like the definition of an anti-ponzi. "Here, have a small token to understand the system!", "Thanks!"

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March 07, 2013, 02:54:32 PM
 #9

My favorite rebuttal to "bitcoin is just a ponzi" is  "Of course it's a ponzi, but so is the dollar"
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March 07, 2013, 03:01:12 PM
 #10


I've watched the video and what really pissed me off was the claim that six millions bitcoins were mined before the whole thing went public.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Satoshi published his idea, with the source code about one month after he mined the first block, didn't he?  It's not his fault or any other's fault if very little people paid attention at this time.
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March 07, 2013, 03:04:37 PM
 #11


I've watched the video and what really pissed me off was the claim that six millions bitcoins were mined before the whole thing went public.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Satoshi published his idea, with the source code about one month after he mined the first block, didn't he?  It's not his fault or any other's fault if very little people paid attention at this time.

That's correct. It's disingenuous to say X number of Bitcoins were mined before it went public. In some very real sense, Bitcoin has not yet "gone public". Does that mean over half of them were mined before it did? No.
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March 07, 2013, 03:34:33 PM
 #12


On the other hand, I think the Ponzi scheme accusation is a fair one, and that's why I think we really should stop promoting bitcoin as we too often do.  It's really too easy to interpret such noise as a way to bring new incomers in order to raise the price.

I think for instance of the way some of us keep harassing Wikimedia to accept bitcoins, or Rick Valvinge's recent article making a prediction for a price at about on hundred thousand dollars or something.   This inevitably attracts skepticism and make the thing look like a scam.  Stop it, please.

Just let people get to know about bitcoin by natural ways (the wikipedia page exists, after all), make their mind about it and use it as a medium of exchange whenever they need it.   We have perfectly natural, commercial and not speculative use cases for bitcoin:  gambling, Silk road, money transfer, IT services, donations and so on.   There is no need to blow whistles and ring bells everywhere to attract the random internet user.

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March 07, 2013, 03:36:27 PM
 #13

Gold is a ponzi  Shocked

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March 07, 2013, 03:39:17 PM
 #14

Gold is a ponzi  Shocked

Before I knew about bitcoin, I was a gold bug.  And I can assure you that on the forums where I was hanging out, there were quite a few people that indeed were trolling this idea that gold is a ponzi scheme.  I'm not exagerating in any way whatsoever.  I'd give you links but these forums were not in english.
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March 07, 2013, 03:48:20 PM
 #15

there were quite a few people that indeed were trolling this idea that gold is a ponzi scheme.

I've found that those folks generally have an over-attachment to government-backed paper as money.
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March 07, 2013, 04:42:49 PM
 #16

Another idiot gold/silver bug. Just one problem: he called it a ponzi scheme in 2011 *snip*
Did youtube.com/user/TruthNeverTold say that? I also wonder how TruthNeverTold's youtube videos count as press?(edit: TruthNeverTold must be proud thinking "I'm as popular as CNN") Is it because the video has 3487 views or 173 likes and 54 dislikes? I added a dislike, do you think it will help? I doubt it and maybe we should just start caring about other stuff than silly actions done by people like TruthNeverTold who rant their mind before thinking(edit: + and not doing any research beforehand, I'm used to this.)

There may still be hope for the 1st decentralized cryptocurrency which is Bitcoin. How to approach different subjects is key to progress.
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March 07, 2013, 07:00:56 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2013, 07:11:02 PM by grondilu
 #17

Also, I totally understand this guy and I think he proves a point I had tried to make several times.

Basically he says that he had began suspecting bitcoin to be a Ponzi scheme whenever he started to receive tons of emails and other messages inviting him to learn about bitcoin and buy some.  I totally understand how it may have looked to him:  precisely like members of a pyramidal scheme trying their best to recruit new suckers.

So I'll say it again:   please stop bitcoin proselytism.

One can make a Ponzi scheme out of anything.  You basically just have to try very hard to have as many people as possible buy it at a higher price than the one you paid.  Don't do that with bitcoin.   Let people who need it or want to use it chose to do so by themselves.
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March 07, 2013, 07:08:46 PM
 #18

+1 to what grondilu said

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March 07, 2013, 08:29:04 PM
 #19

So I'll say it again:   please stop bitcoin proselytism.

i have to agree somewhat, though we are guily of some as well. we organize bitcoin meetups where interested people who happen to be in vienna can come and chat with us.
less evangelism = slower price rise = more bitcoins for us to accumulate before the inevitable happens and bitcoin becomes completely mainstream.
so to get rich, people, STOP actively promoting bitcoin.  Grin
(to be taken with a grain of salt, though i find "pushers" annoying, too no matter what they push. if an idea is good, it will grow from itself)
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March 07, 2013, 09:27:39 PM
 #20

If you stop promoting bitcoin because some random dude calls it a ponzi scheme, you are pretty stupid imo. Keep promoting it, how do you think we got here? Mute sheeple? No.
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March 07, 2013, 11:12:54 PM
 #21


I've watched the video and what really pissed me off was the claim that six millions bitcoins were mined before the whole thing went public.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Satoshi published his idea, with the source code about one month after he mined the first block, didn't he?  It's not his fault or any other's fault if very little people paid attention at this time.

That's correct. It's disingenuous to say X number of Bitcoins were mined before it went public. In some very real sense, Bitcoin has not yet "gone public". Does that mean over half of them were mined before it did? No.

I actually thought it was just the genesis block which was published with the code and paper and the next block was a week after that. I may have it wrong, but I'm pretty sure he didn't spend a month mining alone.

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March 07, 2013, 11:39:26 PM
 #22

None of the people involved in the Ponzi ever think it is a Ponzi  Wink

</troll>

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March 07, 2013, 11:41:02 PM
 #23

I was introduced to bitcoin before the infamous crash of MTGox. Then stopped mining and actually lost a wallet with 10BTC in it. (I would like to think I would find a copy of the wallet on a dusty disk somewhere....). Then Bitcoin just slipped my mind.

When I came back to Bitcoin scene it already got up to 5$ so it got me to wonder about what is Bitcoin exactly? After spending a very long time reading and learning alot of things. Economics, Currencies, Cryptography and the Bitcoin white paper and BIP several times.......

Bitcoin are not worthless and a derivative of it if not Bitcoin itself will get main stream big time. That if we all pitched-in in a way or another to help it.

Will take me a while to climb up again, But where is a will, there is a way...
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March 07, 2013, 11:48:10 PM
 #24

I just to add that with me coming from a computer science background and working in the IT field. What I like about Bitcoin the most is the idea of the block chain! That is the most awesome invention I lived to see so far! well, an invention that interests me  Grin

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March 08, 2013, 12:00:59 AM
 #25

I think he heard the word "ponzi" and liked it. Didn't understand it, but he liked it.

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March 08, 2013, 12:02:28 AM
 #26

I think he heard the word "ponzi" and liked it. Didn't understand it, but he liked it.

It has a tickly feel to it if you emphasize the z Tongue

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March 08, 2013, 03:04:40 AM
 #27

Saw a short version or trailer. What a fucking dumbass if he thinks its a ponzi

EDIT: I just heard half a dozen errors and mistruths in the first 4 mintues

Who wants me to make a rebuttal video?

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March 08, 2013, 10:14:32 AM
 #28

Saw a short version or trailer. What a fucking dumbass if he thinks its a ponzi

EDIT: I just heard half a dozen errors and mistruths in the first 4 mintues

Who wants me to make a rebuttal video?

Go for it man. But I doubt people with this way of stubborn thinking would understand you. They would simply answer with "I don't want to use money that I don't understand"

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March 08, 2013, 10:22:47 AM
 #29

Saw a short version or trailer. What a fucking dumbass if he thinks its a ponzi

EDIT: I just heard half a dozen errors and mistruths in the first 4 mintues

Who wants me to make a rebuttal video?

Go for it man. But I doubt people with this way of stubborn thinking would understand you. They would simply answer with "I don't want to use money that I don't understand"

Oh I expect them to be more rude than that.

I'll see if I have time for this. I already have a way to reach out and touch this guy.

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March 08, 2013, 11:28:48 AM
 #30

If you stop promoting bitcoin because some random dude calls it a ponzi scheme, you are pretty stupid imo. Keep promoting it, how do you think we got here? Mute sheeple? No.

I'm naive enough to think it's possible to be interested in monetary alternatives, and then end up on the bitcoin Wikipedia article,  which is not supposed to promote bitcoin, just to inform about its existence make information about it available.

That's how I got to know about it anyway.
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March 08, 2013, 11:56:36 AM
 #31

Bitcoin isnt based on a secret business model /thread

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March 08, 2013, 02:36:07 PM
Last edit: March 08, 2013, 03:19:14 PM by tjohej
 #32

Edit: As posted by smoothie here is the reply: "Bitcoin Report Volume 27 (Bitcoin Crash 2 - Ponzi Scheme Debunked)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNLSvd4LyP8

First of all what is this doing in the Press section? You are linking to a video of some "Bitcoin hater" that doesn't want to learn about Bitcoin nor understand. Why should we be losing our time with these people? TruthNeverTold blocks any new comments. Ok some people don't wanna learn about Bitcoin and that's fine for me. I'll neither curse them nor blame them nor praise them. I'll just leave this thread alone

This was the comment I was not allowed to post:
Quote
Does TruthNeverTold even know that there was a problem for many years called the "double-spending problem" that has been solved by the HashCash idea in conjunction with Digital Signatures?

There may still be hope for the 1st decentralized cryptocurrency which is Bitcoin. How to approach different subjects is key to progress.
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March 08, 2013, 02:47:03 PM
 #33

Chris just mad because silver < Bitcoin. LOL he bet the "house" on silver and yet made less than if he bought bitcoin 2 years ago as opposed to selling his house 8 years ago to buy silver.

Guys like this dont want to lose the grip on the community buying what they have a lot of...in his case...silver.

Listened to BrotherJohnF's rebuttals to all Chris Duane's lies.....hilarious!

I love how misinformation is perpetuated by this silver bug.

LOL so fail

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March 08, 2013, 02:53:26 PM
 #34

Chris just mad because silver < Bitcoin. LOL he bet the "house" on silver and yet made less than if he bought bitcoin 2 years ago as opposed to selling his house 8 years ago to buy silver.

Guys like this dont want to lose the grip on the community buying what they have a lot of...in his case...silver.

Listened to BrotherJohnF's rebuttals to all Chris Duane's lies.....hilarious!

I love how misinformation is perpetuated by this silver bug.

LOL so fail

hey link me the rebuttal please

thanks

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March 08, 2013, 02:54:00 PM
 #35

Guys like him are just to be ignored. I believe bitcoin can do the talking from here on out.

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March 08, 2013, 02:56:36 PM
 #36

Chris just mad because silver < Bitcoin. LOL he bet the "house" on silver and yet made less than if he bought bitcoin 2 years ago as opposed to selling his house 8 years ago to buy silver.

Guys like this dont want to lose the grip on the community buying what they have a lot of...in his case...silver.

Listened to BrotherJohnF's rebuttals to all Chris Duane's lies.....hilarious!

I love how misinformation is perpetuated by this silver bug.

LOL so fail

hey link me the rebuttal please

thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNLSvd4LyP8

███████████████████████████████████████

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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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March 08, 2013, 03:24:46 PM
 #37

If you stop promoting bitcoin because some random dude calls it a ponzi scheme, you are pretty stupid imo. Keep promoting it, how do you think we got here? Mute sheeple? No.

+1

I'm not much of a bitcoin promoter, but I support the people that do.  Do some of them make me cringe?  Definitely.  But if it wasn't for those people we may not have the support of WordPress, Reddit, Mega, etc already.

And I can see people calling bitcoin a ponzi scheme.  The money people invest into it...goes directly to people who already own bitcoins.  And I'd argue all currencies are ponzi schemes.  Stocks, gold, fiat all follow the same pattern.  So calling it a currency is basically admitting it is a ponzi scheme.  And that is the main difference.  Knowing that is how it works before you get involved means you know the risks.  Ponzi schemes are only bad if the fact that they are ponzi schemes is hidden from you causing you to invest without knowing the true risks.

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March 08, 2013, 03:38:16 PM
 #38

I guess if bitcoin is a ponzi, then I'm Madoff.  Huh
I must be secretly behind this whole ponzi because I'm doing alright?
Maybe I'm Satoshi !!!

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March 08, 2013, 03:49:23 PM
 #39

I guess if bitcoin is a ponzi, then I'm Madoff.  Huh
I must be secretly behind this whole ponzi because I'm doing alright?
Maybe I'm Satoshi !!!

nah i think molecular joined the forum before you in like feb 2011 or jan 2011 so its him

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March 08, 2013, 03:53:50 PM
 #40

I can see why there are so many angry people here - this video is not a criticism of bitcoin - its a criticism of bitcoin supporters! Smiley


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March 09, 2013, 04:44:37 PM
 #41

Great response/rant to Duane from Adam Kokesh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lmvXpksWrg
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March 10, 2013, 02:29:00 AM
 #42

Great response/rant to Duane from Adam Kokesh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lmvXpksWrg


i have insider info other big names will reply too

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March 10, 2013, 02:56:11 AM
 #43

i have insider info other big names will reply too

Do let us know here when they do...
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April 09, 2013, 08:39:19 PM
 #44

i have insider info other big names will reply too

Do let us know here when they do...

Chris Duane is (somewhat) hammered again on why he thinks bitcoin is a scam, by FutureMoneyTrends.com who accepts bitcoin payments for their products:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BXwsKF_g4

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April 09, 2013, 08:46:06 PM
 #45

Gold is a ponzi  Shocked

EXACTLY.   I wish all the people who THINK they own gold would demand physical delivery.   then you see the gold price move.


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April 09, 2013, 08:52:15 PM
 #46

That's right. Don't spend one cent on the bitcoin scam, instead send all your money to Chris Duane and he'll send you back some SBSS Freedom Girl rounds. Maybe. When he gets around to it.
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May 03, 2013, 11:55:22 PM
 #47

Heard from Kokesh that Duane had a falling out with the guy minting thosecoins

anyway

His video now has more dislikes than likes

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May 03, 2013, 11:59:55 PM
 #48

I said something negative on his video a while back and then he banned me from commenting on them Tongue  What a swell fella.

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