Bitcoin is Bad for the environment, taking the worlds energy - yes?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Mining uses more power than a country of 4-5 million people? Each of whom have washing machines, vibrators, Teslas, streetlamps outside their houses, trams and on and on.

I'm sure Bitcoin's carbon footprint is a disgrace considering the tiny number of users, but that seems like an excessive statistic.

Bitcoin uses as much electricity as X vibrators.   Can someone calculate X?

But I suspect that bitcoin will be powered by wind and solar power in the future,  and I'm not worried about it.   Nor about the vibrators.

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[Sniper44]

(I think this should go in mining)

There has been a lot of talk on this.  Quite a few good papers
https://karlodwyer.github.io/publications/pdf/bitcoin_KJOD_2014.pdf
From this paper: "Bitcoin mining is comparable to Ireland’s electricity consumption".



As bitcoin grows the amount of energy on the planet is not increasing. Anyone who understands the article, it seems very legitimate to me, discuss,   Yes, I realize the miner wants to reduce cost & cut waste.  Therefore they may seek alternative forms or desire to do so.  Yes, I read about the Hydrofarmer on this very forum.  It is just not the norm with all the major miners around the planet.  Proof of work is expensive. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_work

**Title was sarcastic.  But it is still something to think about?

there is already another topic about it here
sarcastic or not, there are a lot of other things that are consuming a lot more power than bitcoin.
the banking system with all these branches which all have a lot of power hungry computers inside are consuming more power than bitcoin.

[tiffyroman]

Mining uses more power than a country of 4-5 million people? Each of whom have washing machines, vibrators, Teslas, streetlamps outside their houses, trams and on and on.

I'm sure Bitcoin's carbon footprint is a disgrace considering the tiny number of users, but that seems like an excessive statistic.

Bitcoin uses as much electricity as X vibrators.   Can someone calculate X?

But I suspect that bitcoin will be powered by wind and solar power in the future,  and I'm not worried about it.   Nor about the vibrators.

This literally made my day LMAO

I've read there are plans to make wind/solar farms dedicated to mining bitcoins in some country. Let me just try to find that article

[Patatas]

Energy can always be converted into one form to another.The electrical waste coming from the industrial and mechanical section is way above the meters compared to the mining industry.That doesn't seem like a problem since we have come up with the alternatives to recycle and conserve energy.If you look at it as an environmental factor,we're literally saving the cost of "fiat money paper" which is made from the trees and is worse. 

[bugsywugsy]

So make a coin where the computational power is put to use - like foldingcoin. But we all know how foldingcoin turned out...

[GreenBits]

So make a coin where the computational power is put to use - like foldingcoin. But we all know how foldingcoin turned out...

Agree with this, all those devices should be put to a better task. also, by simply using renewable sources of energy, and wih the continuing evolution of chip efficiency, this shouldn't be a problem if bitcoin reaches primetime. State actors will provide more efficient mining solutions if necessary.

[pooya87]

there is already a lot of other things that are bad for the environment and they are wasting a lot more energy than bitcoin mining.
besides these mining farms that are mainly mining bitcoin are located in third world countries where they waste a lot of energy and they don't care!

[avikz]

Every new innovation has its positive side as well as negative side. Probably the power consumption is one of the negative factors of bitcoin.

Considering this, alternative energies like solar panel can be used to mine bitcoin. A full time bitcoin earner can install few solar panels at his home and use that power to mine bitcoin. Only one time investment is required for this and the return is life long. Miners should think more seriously about it.

[Patatas]

besides these mining farms that are mainly mining bitcoin are located in third world countries where they waste a lot of energy and they don't care!

Who says ? Get your facts right.See the stats below,most of the full nodes are from the developed countries.Speaking of 3rd world countries and you're not explicitly talking about China,most of them suffer severe energy crises.Electricity is not even distributed to below the average section of the society,forget about wasting it on mining.

[Rubberduckie]

I definitely think people should look to solar.

It may actually get me back into it if I could set up a solar option

energy in california is ridiculous when I missed with 2 S2's it was 800$ a month

[CoinCarrie]

(I think this should go in mining)

There has been a lot of talk on this.  Quite a few good papers
https://karlodwyer.github.io/publications/pdf/bitcoin_KJOD_2014.pdf
From this paper: "Bitcoin mining is comparable to Ireland’s electricity consumption".



As bitcoin grows the amount of energy on the planet is not increasing. Anyone who understands the article, it seems very legitimate to me, discuss,   Yes, I realize the miner wants to reduce cost & cut waste.  Therefore they may seek alternative forms or desire to do so.  Yes, I read about the Hydrofarmer on this very forum.  It is just not the norm with all the major miners around the planet.  Proof of work is expensive. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_work

**Title was sarcastic.  But it is still something to think about?

there is already another topic about it here
sarcastic or not, there are a lot of other things that are consuming a lot more power than bitcoin.
the banking system with all these branches which all have a lot of power hungry computers inside are consuming more power than bitcoin.

Your reply was a waste of energy, just like me responding.  Read the thread.  At least individuals are taking tome to add value.  I will stop consuming energy here.  The point is not what are other things consuming power.  Please speak directly about the study, if you understand it.  What is exaggerated or erroneous in your professional opinion?  If you do not care or do not understand, this is a very complex subject. That is fine, you are like most.  What I do not understand - Why bother wasting energy replying?

[CoinCarrie]

I definitely think people should look to solar.

It may actually get me back into it if I could set up a solar option

energy in california is ridiculous when I missed with 2 S2's it was 800$ a month

The miner must reduce cost & cut waste to remain profitable.  However there are 29-40 companies responsible for the majority?  Probably closer to the lower number right?  None of these key actors are looking at alternative energy at this time.  Nor have any announced interest.  If I am wrong and miners relevant on a global scale, who are currently using electricity have openly spoken about a sincere transition - who?  That is not a "dig", me being a jerk.  This stuff is just fascinating to me even if just a hypothetical discussion.  Many people have brought this up, it has been discussed in detail in this forum.  But those using the majority of the compute power, which is estimated to be close to or more than all Google servers (IT IS HUGE), none are seriously thinking about making this change.


Though possibly this will be a competitive advantage for newer individuals to "get in"?

[Carlton Banks]

The whole anthropogenic global warming debate is nothing more than a very smart way of making the people of the world pay government cronies for the right to breathe. Several doomsday scenarios were predicted to have struck midnight by the year 2016, and none of them have come to pass. Natural climate change is much, much more powerful than 0.01% changes in CO² atmospheric composition that burning fossil fuels has contributed; Bitcoin mining compares to the previous 2 factors as an infinitesimally small blip. OP is FUD.

Did you read and understand the research?  The author is hardly a "Nazi environmentalist".  There are other journals out there which suggest the same.  Though they seem to be a little bias.  Which part of the research do you disagree with?

No, I did not. I don't need to: energy might be finite, but it's also pretty abundant. It only really makes sense to start comparing between energy used mining Bitcoin and other large scale utilisations of energy if you make either or both of the following 2 assumptions:

• Energy is scarce
• Anthropogenic climate change is significant

And because neither of those 2 assumptions are valid (and are indeed, easily disproved), any research examining Bitcoin mining from the "uses too much energy" perspective is predicated on false premises. [/thread]

[Btcvilla]

The whole anthropogenic global warming debate is nothing more than a very smart way of making the people of the world pay government cronies for the right to breathe. Several doomsday scenarios were predicted to have struck midnight by the year 2016, and none of them have come to pass. Natural climate change is much, much more powerful than 0.01% changes in CO² atmospheric composition that burning fossil fuels has contributed; Bitcoin mining compares to the previous 2 factors as an infinitesimally small blip. OP is FUD.

Did you read and understand the research?  The author is hardly a "Nazi environmentalist".  There are other journals out there which suggest the same.  Though they seem to be a little bias.  Which part of the research do you disagree with?

No, I did not. I don't need to: energy might be finite, but it's also pretty abundant. It only really makes sense to start comparing between energy used mining Bitcoin and other large scale utilisations of energy if you make either or both of the following 2 assumptions:

• Energy is scarce
• Anthropogenic climate change is significant

And because neither of those 2 assumptions are valid (and are indeed, easily disproved), any research examining Bitcoin mining from the "uses too much energy" perspective is predicated on false premises. [/thread]

Human made and natural climate change is significant and real, were already seeing the effects of it.  But, Bitcoin is not a huge contributor to it, at all. A lot of Bitcoin mines actually use green energy, as green energy is cheaper.

[marcuslong]

(I think this should go in mining)

There has been a lot of talk on this.  Quite a few good papers
https://karlodwyer.github.io/publications/pdf/bitcoin_KJOD_2014.pdf
From this paper: "Bitcoin mining is comparable to Ireland’s electricity consumption".



As bitcoin grows the amount of energy on the planet is not increasing. Anyone who understands the article, it seems very legitimate to me, discuss,   Yes, I realize the miner wants to reduce cost & cut waste.  Therefore they may seek alternative forms or desire to do so.  Yes, I read about the Hydrofarmer on this very forum.  It is just not the norm with all the major miners around the planet.  Proof of work is expensive. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_work

**Title was sarcastic.  But it is still something to think about?

Bitcoin is not bad in environment it is bad if all bitcoin miners stop bitcoin mining because theres no big consumer of electricity i think thats bad for community many people will not get their pay for their services if bitcoin miners stopped using bitcoin mining.. So the bad here if they stopped.

[Carlton Banks]

Human made and natural climate change is significant and real, were already seeing the effects of it.  But, Bitcoin is not a huge contributor to it, at all. A lot of Bitcoin mines actually use green energy, as green energy is cheaper.

You're wrong, and dangerously wrong. There is no runaway greenhouse effect, the evidence is plain for everyone to see. Look out of your window.

If you looked out of your window on planets with genuinely massive concentrations of greenhouse gases, you had better make sure that both the glass and the frame of said window are capable of withstanding huge temperature fluctuations and highly corrosive airbourne chemicals. Because of the genuine runaway greenhouse effect such planets expereience because of genuinely high concentrations of greenhouse gases. On those planets.


But we're not on Venus, or Mercury, this is Earth. None of the scare stories will ever come to pass. Not with 0.04% CO². Get a grip, global warming dogmatists. The end goal is to charge you taxes to breathe air outwards. You won't be dragging me down with you.

[Btcvilla]

Human made and natural climate change is significant and real, were already seeing the effects of it.  But, Bitcoin is not a huge contributor to it, at all. A lot of Bitcoin mines actually use green energy, as green energy is cheaper.

You're wrong, and dangerously wrong. There is no runaway greenhouse effect, the evidence is plain for everyone to see. Look out of your window.

If you looked out of your window on planets with genuinely massive concentrations of greenhouse gases, you had better make sure that both the glass and the frame of said window are capable of withstanding huge temperature fluctuations and highly corrosive airbourne chemicals.


But we're not on Venus, or Mercury, this is Earth. None of the scare stories will ever come to pass. Not with 0.04% CO². Get a grip, global warming dogmatists. The end goal is to charge you taxes to breathe air outwards. You won't be dragging me down with you.

You sound like a schizophrenic with a "the government is after me" conspiracy.

You have some of the smartest people in the world, telling you its real, and you need to take action.

However, a lot of people predicting dooms day from it are wrong, very wrong. We won't live to see the full effects. Our children and grand children will be seeing the full effects. People will die from it, but it wont extinct humans. The worse effect from it will be economic, as some of the worlds most important cities are built right by the coast.

[Astermony]

The mining energy is used to protect/secure the bitcoin network. If you consider the energy used by US army to protect the US dollar, that is much more.

[carlisle1]

energy consumption used for bitcoin mining cannot beat the energy consumption used  simultaneously for aircons, refrigerators , washing machine that also has a dryer on it , TVs and a Flat Iron . and it is not bad for the environment i guess what really bad is the Factories that is not disposing their waste properly whether is toxic or not .

[Carlton Banks]

You sound like a schizophrenic with a "the government is after me" conspiracy.

Like I said, you're a highly dangerous individual making such unfounded accusations, that could get the recipient of your "diagnosis" abducted and indefinitely detained; stood upon that eternally solid basis: blind faith and ignorance.... speaking of which:

You have some of the smartest people in the world, telling you its real, and you need to take action.

Having a job title, or letters after your name, or a swimming badge on your swim shorts demonstrates precisely fuck all about your ability within a given field of endeavour.

I don't care if a newspaper or the TV news repeats-repeats-repeats endlessly that "97% of scientists uphold anthropogenic global warming", because (and welcome to the 21st century, by the way) that's how propaganda works on people without an adequate sense of incredulity: very rich people with an agenda to push own corporate media, why would those people want you to believe or know information that's in your interests? Believe that garbage at your own considerable risk.




So, instead of making accusations that seriously risk the freedom and safety of the person you're debating, why don't you come up with some actual arguments, instead of saying "arrest the unbeliever" or "someone who knows something you don't told me that fiction X is real". That's the same kind of arguments that religious people make. And they're equally dangerous and ignorant for the same reason; blind faith.