ETH hardfork incoming.

[Juhagic]

One doesn't even have to read past the first three sentences to know that this guy is clearly talking his book.  He owns DAO and also has a couple of other Ethereum-supported projects. 

It's a well-written piece.  He makes some strong arguments.  He does a good job refuting some of the counter-arguments to a hard fork.  But I think his fundamental argument that it would be MORE valuable is completely unsupported.  Truth is, nobody knows the impact of the loss of trust caused by the sloppy work upfront and the efficacy of the attacks that inhibit the soft fork.  What will the next attack be?  Where will it come from?  Will they roll everything back AGAIN to thwart it? 

His argument that it somehow IMPROVES mainstream perception of Ethereum is, well, not actually an argument.  It's an anecdote followed by an opinion.  I happen to have the opposite opinion. 

Finally, he doesn't address my main concern, which is the precedent of colluding with miners to do the bidding of the Foundation.  This is NOT GOOD for a lot of reasons.  One of those reasons is the precedent it sets of collusion.  What happens if a government wants to intervene and threaten the miners to fork because they THINK there is a homeland security issue?  What happens if they want to roll back just because they feel people aren't paying capital gains taxes?  What happens if MegaCorp sees that they could easily afford the required bribes to do whatever it is that THEY want?  ETH is roughly a billion in market cap.  Apple has $160 billion on hand an Microsoft has $85 billion. 

ETH isn't too big to fail.  On the contrary, it's too small to save. 

Colluding with the miners is not a problem. Some people think it is fine for the "hacker" to take away the money from the DAO by exploiting a bug in the system. It is also fine for miners to get the money back by not exploiting a bug. That is all the 51% attack does. It is in the design of any block chain.

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[VERUMinNUMERIS]

If they hardfork eth then it's over for them.  No way.

[Juhagic]

If they hardfork eth then it's over for them.  No way.

Ethereum  is just an experiment, although quite expensive experiment. I saw the soft fork soft ware was withdrawn due to a bug. It is possible to create a soft fork which has no obvious bug? Is that limited by the Ethereum built in structure?

[vuduchyld]

Colluding with the miners is not a problem. Some people think it is fine for the "hacker" to take away the money from the DAO by exploiting a bug in the system. It is also fine for miners to get the money back by not exploiting a bug. That is all the 51% attack does. It is in the design of any block chain.

I think the hacker stole by deception and that is certainly theft.

My problem isn't collusion per se, but collusion at the behest of the Foundation.  I don't think anybody believes their motives are as pure as the driven snow. 

[Hibryda]

I think the hacker stole by deception and that is certainly theft.

My problem isn't collusion per se, but collusion at the behest of the Foundation.  I don't think anybody believes their motives are as pure as the driven snow. 

Foundation is dysfunctional. It lacks governance, it's full of factions. But the scheme behind this theft is probably more complex. Of course a certain faction could be a part of it. But following some trails, logs, public stances, Mircea, letters, timings, suggests that this was usual speculators game. There are many lies in truths in lies and so on, but ultimately all shows normal crypto world dirty tricks. Dressed in big words often.
Ethereum can be blamed for utter irresponsibility (especially certain people there) and inability to identify whom should they bribe first. Not for collusion per se. We live here in a very corrupted but funny world.

[Auponef]

Colluding with the miners is not a problem. Some people think it is fine for the "hacker" to take away the money from the DAO by exploiting a bug in the system. It is also fine for miners to get the money back by not exploiting a bug. That is all the 51% attack does. It is in the design of any block chain.

I think the hacker stole by deception and that is certainly theft.

My problem isn't collusion per se, but collusion at the behest of the Foundation.  I don't think anybody believes their motives are as pure as the driven snow. 

The Foundation members want to make some money out of Ethereum initially. But they did not realise they could have made so much. It was more than $1b.

[Cryptology]

Real time count of the ongoing fork - no fork vote -> http://carbonvote.com/

[Mokuton]

Sentiments are fud and bearish, hmmm maybe hardfork will do the opposite and price will increase instead

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The old chain will live.
https://github.com/ethereumclassic/README

[X7]

Kraken has some warnings about this which is worth noting for any user of their platform.

[bbc.reporter]

So what is the definite date of the hard fork? Have they decalred it already? This might be good or bad for the platform. If they do hard fork they should hope that banks and companies will still be interested in using the platform.

[greenuser]

So what is the definite date of the hard fork? Have they decalred it already? This might be good or bad for the platform. If they do hard fork they should hope that banks and companies will still be interested in using the platform.

20th July....  Oh the banks are too far in now to cop out.  They were the ones that voted up the fork,  well you can't let just the miners decide about the future of the banking system can you?  Moreover: only about 6 months left of mining before PoS anyway.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

>So what is the definite date of the hard fork?
The hard fork will occur at block 1,920,000 on or around Wednesday, July 20th.
>Have they decalred it already?
Yup. Totally decalred.
>This might be good or bad for the platform.
I 'spose.
>If they do hard fork they should hope that banks and companies will still be interested in using the platform.
Let 'em have it. ETHC will fork away from Vitalik and his nanny chain can whore itself out to the highest bidder.

[greenuser]

ETHC will fork away from Vitalik and his nanny chain can whore itself out to the highest bidder.

Thats a done deal.  It's called The R3 Consortium
As of June 23rd they are:
Barclays, BBVA, Commonwealth Bank of Australia, Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, Royal Bank of Scotland, State Street, UBS, Bank of America, BNY Mellon, Citi, Commerzbank, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group, Morgan Stanley, National Australia Bank, Royal Bank of Canada, Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken, Société Générale, Toronto-Dominion Bank,  Mizuho Bank, Nordea, UniCredit,  BNP Paribas, Wells Fargo, ING, Macquarie Group, Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce,  BMO Financial Group, Danske Bank, Intesa Sanpaolo, Natixis, Nomura, Northern Trust, OP Financial Group, Banco Santander, Scotiabank, Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation, U.S. Bancorp, Westpac Banking Corporation, SBI Holdings of Japan, Hana Financial of South Korea, Bank Itau of Brazil and Toyota Financial Services.

Not that there are any cartels in the banking world    But, surely you didn't think that bloated market cap came from forum users did you?

[zana]

ETHC will fork away from Vitalik and his nanny chain can whore itself out to the highest bidder.

Thats a done deal.  It's called The R3 Consortium
As of June 23rd they are:
Barclays, BBVA, Commonwealth Bank of Australia, Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, Royal Bank of Scotland, State Street, UBS, Bank of America, BNY Mellon, Citi, Commerzbank, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group, Morgan Stanley, National Australia Bank, Royal Bank of Canada, Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken, Société Générale, Toronto-Dominion Bank,  Mizuho Bank, Nordea, UniCredit,  BNP Paribas, Wells Fargo, ING, Macquarie Group, Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce,  BMO Financial Group, Danske Bank, Intesa Sanpaolo, Natixis, Nomura, Northern Trust, OP Financial Group, Banco Santander, Scotiabank, Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation, U.S. Bancorp, Westpac Banking Corporation, SBI Holdings of Japan, Hana Financial of South Korea, Bank Itau of Brazil and Toyota Financial Services.

Not that there are any cartels in the banking world    But, surely you didn't think that bloated market cap came from forum users did you?

Excellent observation!!! Many people still believe it came from normal users. Lol.

[BitUsher]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4t2jfq/security_the_oldtonewchain_replay_attack_and_the

Replay Attacks Incoming!

[greenuser]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4t2jfq/security_the_oldtonewchain_replay_attack_and_the

Replay Attacks Incoming!

LoL, I was planning to run both chains at the same time too, I wonder how many others will do the same

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4t2jfq/security_the_oldtonewchain_replay_attack_and_the

Replay Attacks Incoming!

LoL, I was planning to run both chains at the same time too, I wonder how many others will do the same

"There could be an issue in the way the P2P protocol was split that causes cross-talk. There could also be myriad game theoretical attacks possible, like we saw in the DAO -- this is a protocol level change and not just a single contract, it's very much more complex. The DAO was studied for months and much was missed, this has been days from conception to completion."

 

[Factmine]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4t2jfq/security_the_oldtonewchain_replay_attack_and_the

Replay Attacks Incoming!

LoL, I was planning to run both chains at the same time too, I wonder how many others will do the same

So you should buy a lot of Ethereum now and then you will have double the amount in both chains.

[Foex]

Is tentative date for hardfork?