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Author Topic: How evil is Bitcoin ?  (Read 13683 times)
theymos
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October 26, 2010, 01:27:52 AM
 #61

Some anarchists (usually social anarchists) have advocated forms of direct democracy as an alternative to the centralized state and capitalism; however, others (such as individualist anarchists) have criticized direct democracy and democracy in general for ignoring the rights of the minority, and instead have advocated a form of consensus decision-making. Libertarian Marxists, however, fully support direct democracy in the form of the proletarian republic and see majority rule and citizen participation as virtues. The Young Communist League, USA in particular refers to representative democracy as "bourgeois democracy," implying that they see direct democracy as "true democracy."

Any kind of democracy, "consensus decision-making", or any type of government entails some group of people forcing their will on some other group of people. They all violate property rights and are therefore immoral.

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bober182
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October 26, 2010, 01:29:52 AM
 #62

Fair enough for me.
In today's common society you must obey the law and its rulers however wrong they are, but I love to spread anarchy with little things free hugs downtown, free food to the homeless, finding ways to get stuff for free (dumpster diving, shoplifting) and most of all showing others they can do the same.

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grondilu
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October 26, 2010, 01:31:57 AM
 #63

Any kind of democracy, "consensus decision-making", or any type of government entails some group of people forcing their will on some other group of people. They all violate property rights and are therefore immoral.

I have to agree with theymos.  Personnaly I think sesessionism is the only way to solve this.  If minority can't accept to obey to majority, then there has to be separation, or war.
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October 26, 2010, 01:33:43 AM
 #64

Fair enough for me.
In today's common society you must obey the law and its rulers however wrong they are, but I love to spread anarchy with little things free hugs downtown, free food to the homeless, finding ways to get stuff for free (dumpster diving, shoplifting) and most of all showing others they can do the same.

And I would consider shoplifting to be a form of theft.

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October 26, 2010, 01:34:13 AM
 #65

What we have today is  not capitalism it is corporatism or soft fascism and the governement itself is a corporation which hands out favours to other corporations. Corporations now control the gun in the room of government and have taken over.Witness the disgusting spectacle of the banking bailouts in which the less wealthy are forced to pay off the misdeeds and corruption of large corporations. The bankers get trillions of dollars while the countries infrastructure falls apart and communities are crushed by debt. The elite are like giant fat bloated mosquitos sucking out all the value and destroying the middle class which they hate with a vengeance.

Capitalism is not the problem it is corruption and greed. When you design a system of giving men power over other men it will attract the ones who want to use it for their own ends. A business by itself cant do anything but please its customers or fail. A business in control of the reigns of power can force customers to use its services and have no consequences of failure. Witness GM Holden and Wall Street.
bober182
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October 26, 2010, 01:37:09 AM
 #66

From a large corporation, a purely profit driven enterprise, faceless and cruel.
Most don't have unions, minimum wages and ignore the cries of employees.
The producer of the item being liberated is already payed in full.

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Anonymous
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October 26, 2010, 01:39:51 AM
 #67

Fair enough for me.
In today's common society you must obey the law and its rulers however wrong they are, but I love to spread anarchy with little things free hugs downtown, free food to the homeless, finding ways to get stuff for free (dumpster diving, shoplifting) and most of all showing others they can do the same.

Shoplifting is not anarchy it is criminality. In a voluntary society such things would be punished more harshly than they are now imo. The government is theft so to steal makes you no better than them. The real path to liberty is personal secession.

ie Ghandi

bober182
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October 26, 2010, 01:40:14 AM
 #68

In short Bitcoin is not evil.
At most its good or slightly better as it is an alternative to the evil central banking scene that runs our world.
Money I personally think is unnecessary to life. Thus I'm an anarcho-communist, but this is a step forward.

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grondilu
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October 26, 2010, 01:41:34 AM
 #69

What we have today is  not capitalism it is corporatism or soft fascism and the governement itself is a corporation which hands out favours to other corporations. Corporations now control the gun in the room of government and have taken over.Witness the disgusting spectacle of the banking bailouts in which the less wealthy are forced to pay off the misdeeds and corruption of large corporations. The bankers get trillions of dollars while the countries infrastructure falls apart and communities are crushed by debt. The elite are like giant fat bloated mosquitos sucking out all the value and destroying the middle class which they hate with a vengeance.

Capitalism is not the problem it is corruption and greed. When you design a system of giving men power over other men it will attract the ones who want to use it for their own ends. A business by itself cant do anything but please its customers or fail. A business in control of the reigns of power can force customers to use its services and have no consequences of failure. Witness GM Holden and Wall Street.

The problem is that we let a bunch of people use force to do business.  We are even stupid enough to pay them for doing so.  We even elect them, and consider them as "great men", or "leaders".
kiba
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October 26, 2010, 01:42:24 AM
 #70

From a large corporation, a purely profit driven enterprise, faceless and cruel.
Most don't have unions, minimum wages and ignore the cries of employees.
The producer of the item being liberated is already payed in full.

Have you ever known what it like to be a poor farmer? My father was a farmer back in Vietnam before we came to the states.

On the contrary, we're wealthier than ever before. Whatever lowly position my father hold today, it is a blessing. We didn't make much, but that's alright.

I count the bigass 3D TV, speedy internet, computers, and books, amongst my blessing.

But you decided that minimum wage is not enough. And you know what? I am unemployed as a teen. It took me a while to find a freelancing job. That, I graciously accepted for little pay. You, on the other hand, have the audacity to decide who is and who is not being exploited.

I despise that.

theymos
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October 26, 2010, 01:44:10 AM
 #71

From a large corporation, a purely profit driven enterprise, faceless and cruel.
Most don't have unions, minimum wages and ignore the cries of employees.
The producer of the item being liberated is already payed in full.

This kind of incorrect thinking is caused mainly by ignorance of economics, I think.

In a voluntary society such things would be punished more harshly than they are now imo.

In anarcho-capitalism, you'd probably have to pay your own defense agency a huge amount of money to convince them to keep such an idiot under their protection.

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Anonymous
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October 26, 2010, 01:48:38 AM
 #72

From a large corporation, a purely profit driven enterprise, faceless and cruel.
Most don't have unions, minimum wages and ignore the cries of employees.
The producer of the item being liberated is already payed in full.

Why do you think the biggest most powerful unions are government worker ones? Unions don't do squat for workers they eventually become overly beauracratic and the companies pay off the union reps to lobby on their behalf.

The best idea is to not have a state  interfering in individual bargaining between free people. Giant corporations can get away with it because they can afford to bribe politicians.




kiba
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October 26, 2010, 01:50:41 AM
 #73

From a large corporation, a purely profit driven enterprise, faceless and cruel.
Most don't have unions, minimum wages and ignore the cries of employees.
The producer of the item being liberated is already payed in full.

Why do you think the biggest most powerful unions are government worker ones? Unions don't do squat for workers they eventually become overly beauracratic and the companies pay off the union reps to lobby on their behalf.

The best idea is to not have a state  interfering in individual bargaining between free people.


Highly paid parasites that sucks up whatever jobs was left.

bober182
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October 26, 2010, 01:52:48 AM
 #74

Correct but a union is better then non.

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Anonymous
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October 26, 2010, 01:54:23 AM
 #75

From a large corporation, a purely profit driven enterprise, faceless and cruel.
Most don't have unions, minimum wages and ignore the cries of employees.
The producer of the item being liberated is already payed in full.

Why do you think the biggest most powerful unions are government worker ones? Unions don't do squat for workers they eventually become overly beauracratic and the companies pay off the union reps to lobby on their behalf.

The best idea is to not have a state  interfering in individual bargaining between free people.


Highly paid parasites that sucks up whatever jobs was left.

I agree.Their giant salaries preclude the hiring of more people. Regulations and compliance costs drive up business costs and cause the same outcome.



Anonymous
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October 26, 2010, 01:56:47 AM
 #76

Correct but a union is better then non.

A union is only good when its a union of individuals. Once the majority can vote to rule the minority it always fails because a group can not have more rights than each individual in that group.

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October 26, 2010, 03:40:35 AM
 #77

But you decided that minimum wage is not enough. And you know what? I am unemployed as a teen. It took me a while to find a freelancing job. That, I graciously accepted for little pay. You, on the other hand, have the audacity to decide who is and who is not being exploited.

I despise that.

My faith in the future of humanity, and in particular the Millinial Generation, is again renewed and rewarded.  I have faith that, should my generation fail to fix Social Security and the social nets of America, as those who have come before have failed; the Millinials will simply destroy the welfare state by whatever means neccessary.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
bober182
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October 26, 2010, 04:36:53 AM
 #78

Have you ever known what it like to be a poor farmer? My father was a farmer back in Vietnam before we came to the states.

On the contrary, we're wealthier than ever before. Whatever lowly position my father hold today, it is a blessing. We didn't make much, but that's alright.

I count the bigass 3D TV, speedy internet, computers, and books, amongst my blessing.

But you decided that minimum wage is not enough. And you know what? I am unemployed as a teen. It took me a while to find a freelancing job. That, I graciously accepted for little pay. You, on the other hand, have the audacity to decide who is and who is not being exploited.

I despise that.

It seems we both don't know each others stories.

I am currently a teenager with no job.
Before you start accusing me of living of my parents.
My parents where decently living in Poland before we moved here 16 years ago. They had good jobs (Teacher and Programmer) and a house and where able to support doing almost whatever they felt like.
Now that we moved to Canada.
My mom works 50 cents above minimum wage and several illegal jobs. My fathers bust his ass in a factory just to pay the mortgage.
I steal my neighbors Wifi, dumpster dive and shoplift. I also have 3 younger siblings. At school we have fundraisers that I cannot afford to take part of. Such as casual Fridays because it costs 15 bucks a year. I share alot of books and other stuff with my friends who are also politically anarchocollectivist/anarchosyndicalist. To me I know that we dont live in poverty but this is not how each person should live on the world. That is why I hate capitalism.

Just wanted to clear that up so you don't think I'm a 40 year old guy who has no one to feed and claims he can fix the world.

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MoonShadow
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October 26, 2010, 04:58:27 AM
 #79

I am currently a teenager with no job.
Before you start accusing me of living of my parents.
My parents where decently living in Poland before we moved here 16 years ago. They had good jobs (Teacher and Programmer) and a house and where able to support doing almost whatever they felt like.
Now that we moved to Canada.

I think we have found the disconnect.  Canada isn't a capitalist society, it's a social market democracy like many in Europe.  You're blaming capitalism for problems not caused by it.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Anonymous
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October 26, 2010, 05:04:33 AM
 #80

Have you ever known what it like to be a poor farmer? My father was a farmer back in Vietnam before we came to the states.

On the contrary, we're wealthier than ever before. Whatever lowly position my father hold today, it is a blessing. We didn't make much, but that's alright.

I count the bigass 3D TV, speedy internet, computers, and books, amongst my blessing.

But you decided that minimum wage is not enough. And you know what? I am unemployed as a teen. It took me a while to find a freelancing job. That, I graciously accepted for little pay. You, on the other hand, have the audacity to decide who is and who is not being exploited.

I despise that.

It seems we both don't know each others stories.

I am currently a teenager with no job.
Before you start accusing me of living of my parents.
My parents where decently living in Poland before we moved here 16 years ago. They had good jobs (Teacher and Programmer) and a house and where able to support doing almost whatever they felt like.
Now that we moved to Canada.
My mom works 50 cents above minimum wage and several illegal jobs. My fathers bust his ass in a factory just to pay the mortgage.
I steal my neighbors Wifi, dumpster dive and shoplift. I also have 3 younger siblings. At school we have fundraisers that I cannot afford to take part of. Such as casual Fridays because it costs 15 bucks a year. I share alot of books and other stuff with my friends who are also politically anarchocollectivist/anarchosyndicalist. To me I know that we dont live in poverty but this is not how each person should live on the world. That is why I hate capitalism.

Just wanted to clear that up so you don't think I'm a 40 year old guy who has no one to feed and claims he can fix the world.

What were taxes in Poland like? If the state takes 70 per cent of your money its no wonder people cant afford things.
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