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Author Topic: | ARDOR | Scalable Blockchain-as-a-Service Platform | Proof of Stake  (Read 366725 times)
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barabbas
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August 09, 2016, 11:56:16 PM
 #601

"But you're not running a regular wallet when you use exchanges. That is custom code written by the exchange to display your balance. How can you expect the NXT foundation to write custom code for each exchange to display a projected Ardor distribution? No where is it stated that a "preview" of how much to expect is a requirement for a wallet, only that there will be a distribution that you will receive. The information needed to calculate the amount is widely posted everywhere for your current NXT holdings. If you want the preview functionality, then hold your NXT in a web or desktop wallet and not on an exchange. That is the official stance of the NXT foundation anyways, so I take that as keeping my funds by any other means is a risk. So if I want to guarantee my funds, I need to be holding them in a personal wallet and not on an exchange. I mean if you have your NXT posted up for sale, clearly you don't believe in the platform and are looking to exit, so why would you care about not receiving any Ardor tokens, unless you just want to dump to make a quick buck? After all the NXT is still needed to acquire the coins from the first child chain, so how can you expect to receive coins for that if you're selling them now?"

Wow, this is completely absurd. And illegal. You can do with your NXT whatever you want, no restrictions whatsoever. And what Next Foundation says it is going to do, is taking snapshots (which they are doing) every hour and that by October 10-12 you will get your Ardor on a 1:1 basis, REGARDLESS where you have or have had those NXT coins, as long as they have been snapshot. Bittrex (and Polo and others, I believe) have agreed to cooperate with this operation and, logically, are not planning on keeping the Ardor themselves (at least I don't think they plan that. If they do, theyll be sued and obviously they will lose hundreds if not thousands of customers and since their business is making money from commissions on trades, not from thievery, logically they will keep their word and do just that). Now, what Bittrex at least don't have is the MECANICALS to tell me, ok as of today, your Ardor accumulated, giving the average of your NXT holdings, is XXX amount. Not that they don't have the will to give the coins to you, they do. They just need the MECANICALS -again- to calculate that as of today. We all know that the figures you get today won't be effective (although they are as real as they can be), meaning you won't get the actual credit, until October 10-12. But the whole point is that there's no reason but, again, the MECANICALS, to not have that estimation in your exchange account just like you do in your regular wallet. The Foundation should provide those mecanicals as of yesterday.

The whole matter of the first chain is up in the air and won't be specific until it is, so it is very secondary for many NXT investors, both traders and long term holders. And has nothing whatsoever to do with the ARDOR matter.
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August 10, 2016, 04:49:56 AM
 #602

Well the whole enchilada at this point is precisely debating -or trolling, if you prefer- the common sense merits of a projects and the possibilities of it finally breaking the barrier and entering the mainstream of the real world. Now, from that perspective, can you tell me again what would be the advantage of a bank using this, as oppose of the private networks they already use? will they eliminate one step in the chain of events from the window to the ledger? I just can't see it, sorry. How will security be improved -with respect to what the now have-, by using a "master network" (the Ardor main one) they have no control whatsoever over and that, regardless whatever it is pretended here or anywhere, is not just susceptible but even prone to outside and successful attacks? Please lets not forget that about a year or so NXT was successfully attacked (and robbed). How on earth is ANY mainstream enterprise ever going to trust their security -and funds- to a system that is constantly the object of thefts and security violation, even in the case of the top of the line, cutting edge technology (arguably), like ETH? How can a responsible, successful, CEO be convinced any of this is actually, practically, viable?

The answer that time will tell is simply not good enough. Enough time and we will all be bald. And dead.

An exchange was attacked and stolen from. NOT NXT. Check your facts.

ARDOR - Blockchain as a Service. Three birds with one stone. /// Do not hold NXT at exchanges, NXT wallets: core+lite, mobile Android
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August 10, 2016, 05:10:23 AM
 #603

Only NXT were stolen, as far as my facts go. So it was an attack on NXT specifically, not the exchange. Unless of course my facts are wrong...
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August 10, 2016, 05:51:31 AM
 #604

Only NXT were stolen, as far as my facts go. So it was an attack on NXT specifically, not the exchange. Unless of course my facts are wrong...

The attack was on the exchange and not on Nxt. The hacker stole nxt tokens,  because it was between btc and nxt at that moment of time.

Please get your facts straight,  before posting information on here that is not true.
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August 10, 2016, 05:58:40 AM
 #605

The Foundation should provide those mecanicals as of yesterday.

The Exchanges polo,  btc38 and bittrex are assisting with the snapshots.  How they will distribute is for every exchange different, because most of them have 1 big account on Nxt and keep an own administered system for their internal "NXT " account holders. But these accounts exist only in the exchange. That is why its the exchange his responsibility to distribute the right amounts to the holders.

I will check with the nxt foundation contact for the latest info about it.
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August 10, 2016, 08:49:39 AM
 #606

How are the forging pools catering to the ardor snapshots? Are they passing on ardor tokens?
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August 10, 2016, 09:14:54 AM
 #607

How are the forging pools catering to the ardor snapshots? Are they passing on ardor tokens?
No need for pools to redistribute ARDR. Because one of the great things about Nxt is that you can lease your forging power without leasing your coins. So the coins stay on your account and you get the ARDR to your account although you are leasing the forging power of your coins.
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August 10, 2016, 09:24:46 AM
 #608

How are the forging pools catering to the ardor snapshots? Are they passing on ardor tokens?
No need for pools to redistribute ARDR. Because one of the great things about Nxt is that you can lease your forging power without leasing your coins. So the coins stay on your account and you get the ARDR to your account although you are leasing the forging power of your coins.

Will the user who lease the forging power also earn ARDR in the distribution phase? Does ARDR is paid to all new coins from forging?

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August 10, 2016, 10:03:35 AM
 #609

How are the forging pools catering to the ardor snapshots? Are they passing on ardor tokens?
No need for pools to redistribute ARDR. Because one of the great things about Nxt is that you can lease your forging power without leasing your coins. So the coins stay on your account and you get the ARDR to your account although you are leasing the forging power of your coins.

Will the user who lease the forging power also earn ARDR in the distribution phase? Does ARDR is paid to all new coins from forging?

There are no new coins in Nxt. Nxt has a fixed supply of coins (NXT). The coins gained by forging are the fees people pay to send transactions.

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August 10, 2016, 10:04:17 AM
 #610

How are the forging pools catering to the ardor snapshots? Are they passing on ardor tokens?
No need for pools to redistribute ARDR. Because one of the great things about Nxt is that you can lease your forging power without leasing your coins. So the coins stay on your account and you get the ARDR to your account although you are leasing the forging power of your coins.

Will the user who lease the forging power also earn ARDR in the distribution phase? Does ARDR is paid to all new coins from forging?

If you lease you don't lose your nxt to the account you lease it too.
NXT stays on your own account and you can do whatever you want (sell, buy etc) with it while you lease it out.
So the same NXT you have on your account will get you Ardor (whether you lease it or not).

If you get NXT fees from forging they will be added to your account and you will get Ardor for that (the amount is dependent on the averaging snapshot fase)
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August 10, 2016, 11:46:20 AM
 #611

Well the whole enchilada at this point is precisely debating -or trolling, if you prefer- the common sense merits of a projects and the possibilities of it finally breaking the barrier and entering the mainstream of the real world. Now, from that perspective, can you tell me again what would be the advantage of a bank using this, as oppose of the private networks they already use? will they eliminate one step in the chain of events from the window to the ledger?

There are some inaccuracies here, but they've been addressed already by others. I'm going to address what I think is your main concern, that being...

"The possibilities of it finally breaking the barrier and entering the mainstream of the real world."

Here's the reality; That's already happened. There's an entire pseudo-economy in the crypto sphere worth, at a minimum, 10 billion USD, and probably a lot more given other factors involved.

Maybe you want to know when blockchain technology will have larger mainstream business applications.

Well, it already does. Consider the Russian use of NXT voting technology. Maybe you're interested in large corporate applications, like banks and multinationals.

That's an easy question to answer. Large banks won't use blockchains as we do... but they will license the technology. They'll contract the Nxt team. They'll want it adapted to their specific needs. And there's a whole bunch of reasons why these blockchains are superior compared to traditional databases as financial ledgers. But that's what they'll do. They'll license what they think is the best, most suitable technology and adapt it to their needs, and the R&D process for his selection is already going on  in Banking conglomerates worldwide. You need only ask them, and plenty have been public with their testing of blockchain technologies. If you want to talk about the specific benefits of blockchains versus private databases for financial institutions, that's a different question that should be handled in a different topic.

As for the actual users of the Nxt blockchain, who will they be?

In all likelihood, they'll be entrepreneurs. They'll be small business folk. They'll be people with great ideas and fantastic talent, but without the 100 million USD to spend that these banks and states have. And they'll need a place to build their vision. Some will need cryptocurrencies. Some will need assets. Some will need an easy way to build Smart Contracts.

Ardor will provide the ecosystem for all of them. And when 1, 2, or 3 of this horde of entrepreneurial projects succeed, that's when we'll see a sudden and dramatic collision of the crypto and mainstream business worlds.

And here's the truth: I don't know which entrepreneurial project will do that job. None of us do. We don't know which tools or technologies they'll need, or how they'll use them. That's why Ardor is refining all these different applications. Ardor sets the stage for them, creates the network infrastructure, and builds every tool they could possibly need.

Then it's up to us entrepreneurs to create amazing things and disrupt the behemoths.
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August 10, 2016, 12:22:49 PM
 #612

+1440 for futureprocessa
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August 10, 2016, 12:41:00 PM
 #613

I mean if you have your NXT posted up for sale, clearly you don't believe in the platform and are looking to exit, so why would you care about not receiving any Ardor tokens, unless you just want to dump to make a quick buck? After all the NXT is still needed to acquire the coins from the first child chain, so how can you expect to receive coins for that if you're selling them now?
So people who want to sell NXT deserve to be stolen from? Exchanges deserve to keep the millions of ARDR tokens they get from the software for all those millions of NXT in sell orders? We are probably talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars here. I still hope that exchanges understand that it is their responsibility to distribute ARDR tokens correctly to all of their clients, though.

I don't recall saying that anyone deserves to be stolen from in my post?? I just asked the question why anyone who is currently selling NXT care about Ardor? To me if they truly wanted the Ardor credit, the best and easiest way is to hold it until after the distribution and then sell. I agree with you that it's ultimately the exchanges responsibility to ensure distribution is done on their side, it's just to many moving parts where things can go wrong for me, so I feel safer with my funds in my personal NXT wallet. That way I'm sure to get my correct distribution and can use the funds to start foraging. I've been scammed for over $2,000 in BTC when I first started, so I definitely don't want anyone to loose money and feel how I did.

Back on subject-

I just setup my first NXT node on a raspberry pi 3 last night and it's finally sync'd to the block chain. The process was pretty easy and painless following the guide on the foundation blog, just having an issue getting the CRON job setup via the guide (Linux noob)...

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August 10, 2016, 12:46:09 PM
 #614

How are the forging pools catering to the ardor snapshots? Are they passing on ardor tokens?
No need for pools to redistribute ARDR. Because one of the great things about Nxt is that you can lease your forging power without leasing your coins. So the coins stay on your account and you get the ARDR to your account although you are leasing the forging power of your coins.

Will the user who lease the forging power also earn ARDR in the distribution phase? Does ARDR is paid to all new coins from forging?

There are no new coins in Nxt. Nxt has a fixed supply of coins (NXT). The coins gained by forging are the fees people pay to send transactions.

The forging pools accumulate the NXT fees in their forging account, and that account will be accumulating ARDOR like all other accounts. Are the pools going to distribute the ARDOR? afaik the pools don't distribute NXT until users request payment of their share, so the pools hold some nxt on behalf of pool members. There is uncertainty here ...

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August 10, 2016, 05:43:39 PM
 #615

Only NXT were stolen, as far as my facts go. So it was an attack on NXT specifically, not the exchange. Unless of course my facts are wrong...

The attack was on the exchange and not on Nxt. The hacker stole nxt tokens,  because it was between btc and nxt at that moment of time.

Please get your facts straight,  before posting information on here that is not true.

My facts are quite straight. As usual. Your foregone conclusions on the other hand... First of all, it not clear, to this day, who and how the "theft" was perpetrated (there's plenty of literature about it in Google). Lin, the owner of Biter, is a piece of shit individual that was proven to be involved in several scams after that and it is strongly suspected that this "theft" was actually an inside job, as in most of the theft cases, is. And the purpose of the "theft", clearly, was an attack on NXT, not just steal as many coins as possible, much less BTC. BTC stolen is sure to "work", since no one is going to hard fork it where NXT could have done it easily -like Vericoin did just weeks before, for the same reason-, thus rendering the "theft" of no value whatsoever. So it was an attack on NXT and NXT was susceptible (all coins but BTC are) to that attack. Should it have affected more people -or more of the RIGHT people, or in bigger amount-, what would NXT have done? that's just up for speculation. Successful enterprises, the mainstream, conventional ones, are not open to such possibilities of attacks ... not to mention the security of networks sustained by the computers on the hands of people of... let's say a rather anarchist vision of the world, spread the world over? I'm sure you catch my point.
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August 10, 2016, 05:52:24 PM
 #616

Well the whole enchilada at this point is precisely debating -or trolling, if you prefer- the common sense merits of a projects and the possibilities of it finally breaking the barrier and entering the mainstream of the real world. Now, from that perspective, can you tell me again what would be the advantage of a bank using this, as oppose of the private networks they already use? will they eliminate one step in the chain of events from the window to the ledger?

There are some inaccuracies here, but they've been addressed already by others. I'm going to address what I think is your main concern, that being...

"The possibilities of it finally breaking the barrier and entering the mainstream of the real world."

Here's the reality; That's already happened. There's an entire pseudo-economy in the crypto sphere worth, at a minimum, 10 billion USD, and probably a lot more given other factors involved.

Maybe you want to know when blockchain technology will have larger mainstream business applications.

Well, it already does. Consider the Russian use of NXT voting technology. Maybe you're interested in large corporate applications, like banks and multinationals.

That's an easy question to answer. Large banks won't use blockchains as we do... but they will license the technology. They'll contract the Nxt team. They'll want it adapted to their specific needs. And there's a whole bunch of reasons why these blockchains are superior compared to traditional databases as financial ledgers. But that's what they'll do. They'll license what they think is the best, most suitable technology and adapt it to their needs, and the R&D process for his selection is already going on  in Banking conglomerates worldwide. You need only ask them, and plenty have been public with their testing of blockchain technologies. If you want to talk about the specific benefits of blockchains versus private databases for financial institutions, that's a different question that should be handled in a different topic.

As for the actual users of the Nxt blockchain, who will they be?

In all likelihood, they'll be entrepreneurs. They'll be small business folk. They'll be people with great ideas and fantastic talent, but without the 100 million USD to spend that these banks and states have. And they'll need a place to build their vision. Some will need cryptocurrencies. Some will need assets. Some will need an easy way to build Smart Contracts.

Ardor will provide the ecosystem for all of them. And when 1, 2, or 3 of this horde of entrepreneurial projects succeed, that's when we'll see a sudden and dramatic collision of the crypto and mainstream business worlds.

And here's the truth: I don't know which entrepreneurial project will do that job. None of us do. We don't know which tools or technologies they'll need, or how they'll use them. That's why Ardor is refining all these different applications. Ardor sets the stage for them, creates the network infrastructure, and builds every tool they could possibly need.

Then it's up to us entrepreneurs to create amazing things and disrupt the behemoths.

Wow, I'm really floored. Thank you for your clear and well explained post. Finally! No mumbo-jumbo and generalities. I really appreciate it and, for the most part, agree with all your main statements... especially the one regarding the licensing of the technology and the hiring of the NXT team. Both of which will benefit ... THE NXT TEAM, no one else. What else's new. Thanks again for your sincerity and clarity in expressing what this whole project is at this state in the game. If you allow me the metaphor, we are an interesting set of tools to mine the "gold", but we will not extract gold itself in the crypto-gold rush. Fear assessment? At this stage, we don't even provide practical use cases for these tools, but if you go west and buy them, you may end up thinking of one or two...

Thanks again.
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August 10, 2016, 06:14:24 PM
 #617

Wow, I'm really floored. Thank you for your clear and well explained post. Finally! No mumbo-jumbo and generalities. I really appreciate it and, for the most part, agree with all your main statements... especially the one regarding the licensing of the technology and the hiring of the NXT team. Both of which will benefit ... THE NXT TEAM, no one else. What else's new. Thanks again for your sincerity and clarity in expressing what this whole project is at this state in the game. If you allow me the metaphor, we are an interesting set of tools to mine the "gold", but we will not extract gold itself in the crypto-gold rush. Fear assessment? At this stage, we don't even provide practical use cases for these tools, but if you go west and buy them, you may end up thinking of one or two...

Thanks again.

Why do you think Nxt 2.0 forging/child chain model is created? To have businesses operate their child blockchains secured by the forging chain. Ardor holders running the forging chain benefit from fees of businesses using child chains. You produce a lot of words, but you have grasped so little of the Nxt 2.0 concept.

ARDOR - Blockchain as a Service. Three birds with one stone. /// Do not hold NXT at exchanges, NXT wallets: core+lite, mobile Android
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August 10, 2016, 06:28:05 PM
 #618

My main concern is that there is no plan to develop NXT chain after the snapshot which could cause the price to plummet because special attention would be given to Ardor. So NXT token could turn to doge coin with no developer behind it.

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barabbas
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August 10, 2016, 07:05:35 PM
 #619

My main concern is that there is no plan to develop NXT chain after the snapshot which could cause the price to plummet because special attention would be given to Ardor. So NXT token could turn to doge coin with no developer behind it.

I have been posting about this: The ARDOR thing is just a SCHEME (not to be mistaken for a scam). In actuality, without any exchange in "value", what Ardor means is a DOUBLING of the number of "coins" in Next. Pure and simply. Next, consequently, ceases of having any value as ARDOR is implemented. That is quite straightforward... where the very smart scheme comes in is AFTER the Ardor is distributed when your holdings in NXT still will entitle you to 0.5 (at least) of the (still unnamed) coin/token resulting from the sale of the first child chain. I repeat again: It is a very, very smart scheme that has already worked very well -as reflected in the price, that I believe has a potential for a double from here still, within weeks-, but that could provoke a huge sell off eventually and before the distribution of ARDOR on October 10-12.

Of course the upside of this could be several. For instance, that the foundation finds the money that they apparently need (Huh) to further finance the child chains and instead of ).5 per 1 NXT distributes those tokes on a 1:1 basis. That would be one that will definitely extend the period of value of NXT for a while. But make no mistake about it, this smart scheme is designed with the dual purpose of reinforcing the network (many more coin will remain in wallets and forging up until the early days of october, at least, probably and possibly much longer), and to , as a consequence, eliminating a lot of sell-side liquidity on the exchanges AND increase the buy-side, both of which have already being accomplished to a significant extent. The inevitable consequence, has been already felt in the increase in both volume and price. Did I say it was a very smart scheme? It is.
barabbas
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August 10, 2016, 07:12:01 PM
 #620

Wow, I'm really floored. Thank you for your clear and well explained post. Finally! No mumbo-jumbo and generalities. I really appreciate it and, for the most part, agree with all your main statements... especially the one regarding the licensing of the technology and the hiring of the NXT team. Both of which will benefit ... THE NXT TEAM, no one else. What else's new. Thanks again for your sincerity and clarity in expressing what this whole project is at this state in the game. If you allow me the metaphor, we are an interesting set of tools to mine the "gold", but we will not extract gold itself in the crypto-gold rush. Fear assessment? At this stage, we don't even provide practical use cases for these tools, but if you go west and buy them, you may end up thinking of one or two...

Thanks again.

Why do you think Nxt 2.0 forging/child chain model is created? To have businesses operate their child blockchains secured by the forging chain. Ardor holders running the forging chain benefit from fees of businesses using child chains. You produce a lot of words, but you have grasped so little of the Nxt 2.0 concept.

I am beginning to grasp it. And I need all of those words to try to cut through the simple, generic, bullshit. For instance the generalization -completely empty of practical world meaning- that it could be used by "businesses". Not by any model of real-world currently conceivable businesses, it won't. But there's no denying that the crypto-world itself is a "business" (pretty shady for the most part), that involves 10 or more billion dollars, so I guess, semantically speaking, it qualifies. In that meaning, my above metaphor would be amplified to "a tool TO MAKE TOOLS to dig for gold...".
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