The ONLY solution to the ETH/DAO conundrum..

[john2231]

Why not fix the code, create DAO2.0, and move on? BTC has hard forked before, it is a learning experience. Why do people say ETH is dead? ETH was not even hacked.

BTC was hacked before and survived!!

Even when you 'fix' the code and create DAO 2.0 it is not enough. People will remember this fail forever. There is something which can't be fixed with rewritten code - people's trust.

And how exactly BTC was 'hacked'? I don't recall anything like that in the past. And certainly no coins were stolen during that 'attack'.

If this crisis is dealt properly, people will have more confidence in the Etheruem. It needs the whole community support.

Support? Ethereum is already dead and i think it will not recover all their loses.. because of DAO. their name is already destroyed in people and more invsetors are converting back into bitcoin or other altcoin.. they are not luck of trust.. making a new altcoin and building a new trust and the same devs.. its impossible that you can get trust again.. because its already destroy trust. new promises is not a good solution..

[1714111342]

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[1714111342]

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[alyssa85]

What is interesting about all this is that all the outcomes will harm Ether:

1) no fork: attacker gets all these Ethers and he can manipulate the price as he wants.

2) with a fork: attacker doesn't get Ether, but confidence on Ethereum drops and the price goes down

And the "economic" solution (through economic incentives):

3) miners accept the attacker's proposal of one million Ether to reject the soft fork:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/miners-to-be-offered-one-million-ether-claims-daos-alleged-attacker-in-ccn-interview/

"Just speculating (because only 1 million to miners is committed), but it makes sense to have a carrot and a stick. Carrot: return some of the eth to the DAO to make righteous people happy. Stick: return some of the eth to miners if they don’t fork to give monetary incentive to not fork. So… the impact and amounts will be a lot smaller than current estimations."

But even if miners accept the attacker's proposal, there's a risk of the price going down, so the miners will be harmed (unless they're already shorting Ether to gain when the price drops).

If it is a) it's only 3% of the coins. MtGox was about that and bitcoin took it on the chin, the price dived to be sure, but that's how it goes. 97% are in other hands.

[iamnotback]

So the miners having 51% mining power can decide the fork or any code any way. There is no moral hazard. There is no argument at all. You just need to convince the majority of the miners.

Somebody here actually understands PoW = miners are a "decentralized authority".

Ethereum miners have started voting in some pools on the "soft fork"...
The "soft fork" simply freezes all ETH transfers from the DAO contract (rendering the current "attacks" unprofitable)...
And there are roughly another 25 days left for miners to simply set a flag that locks up the DAO.

Ethpool is voting 99.4% in favor of a "soft fork" here:

http://ethpool.org/stats/votes

Looking at these numbers...
It's very likely miners will subsequently vote in a "hard fork" that will destroy the DAO... and return all ETH to investors.

Ethereum will not suffer from the same paralysis Bitcoin did post-Gox... and still does.

All the FUD you hear about "crypto purity" is from Bitcoin Maximalist Trolls...
Miners acting as a "decentralized authority" on ANY issue is at the heart of PoW.

Did they really act without political control driving their choice?

Vitalik et al are playing with fire as I pondered upthread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHcLKrkwPLQ#t=3864

Especially listen at 1:06:15! And listen at 1:11:15 where the attorney says Vitalik (et al) is creating dangerous legal liability for himself (themselves) by being the judge!

The likely party to be sued are those who can be identified and have a pot of money.

Vitalik just propose a change to the Etheruem protocol. It is the miners who will be responsible for the restoring the money from the theft.

The court may not agree that Vitalik has no political power. Considering how much all the mETH supporters prays at his feet, I'd say it is likely the court will find that Vitalik and his accomplices are significantly in control of the enterprise. But that is just my opinion as an observer. What do others think?

And remember that the attorney pointed out that each of the 1000s of plaintiffs can sue in any one of the 1000s of jurisdictions. Someone can find a favorable judge some where!!!

This is what I specifically warned about over the past months. I can even quote where I said that jurisdiction shopping would be a PITA because one would have to defend themselves against an unbounded number of threats.

As the attorney Pamela points out, this issue could have been significantly mitigated if their attorneys had advised them to add an arbitration clause to the TOS and also had more sobering disclosures on their TOS so that plaintiffs couldn't just choose willynilly to make any sort of claim of injury in any jurisdiction.

Who set up the legal structure for Ethereum et al?  They apparently suck!

What are you doing to crypto-currency? Who will support Ethereum as it becomes the 666 coin? The attorney explains that they open the ecosystem to subpoena power by doing this. And you support the moral hazard of rewarding n00bs for not doing due diligence instead of letting them suffer a 30% haircut.

Effectively MIT's 666 ChainAnchor proposal which can be used for enforcing KYC, is a blacklist coming to crypto-currency thanks to Ethereum and The DAO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHcLKrkwPLQ#t=2627  <--- a real attorney's explanation

Thanks Vitalik for enslaving us!

AnonyMint predicted this in 2013, Bitcoin : The Digital Kill Switch.

[anthonydar]

So the miners having 51% mining power can decide the fork or any code any way. There is no moral hazard. There is no argument at all. You just need to convince the majority of the miners.

Somebody here actually understands PoW = miners are a "decentralized authority".

Ethereum miners have started voting in some pools on the "soft fork"...
The "soft fork" simply freezes all ETH transfers from the DAO contract (rendering the current "attacks" unprofitable)...
And there are roughly another 25 days left for miners to simply set a flag that locks up the DAO.

Ethpool is voting 99.4% in favor of a "soft fork" here:

http://ethpool.org/stats/votes

Looking at these numbers...
It's very likely miners will subsequently vote in a "hard fork" that will destroy the DAO... and return all ETH to investors.

Ethereum will not suffer from the same paralysis Bitcoin did post-Gox... and still does.

All the FUD you hear about "crypto purity" is from Bitcoin Maximalist Trolls...
Miners acting as a "decentralized authority" on ANY issue is at the heart of PoW.

Did they really act without political control driving their choice?

Vitalik et al are playing with fire as I pondered upthread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHcLKrkwPLQ#t=3864

Especially listen at 1:06:15! And listen at 1:11:15 where the attorney says Vitalik (et al) is creating dangerous legal liability for himself (themselves) by being the judge!

The likely party to be sued are those who can be identified and have a pot of money.

Vitalik just propose a change to the Etheruem protocol. It is the miners who will be responsible for the restoring the money from the theft.

The court may not agree that Vitalik has no political power. Considering how much all the mETH supporters prays at his feet, I'd say it is likely the court will find that Vitalik and his accomplices are significantly in control of the enterprise. But that is just my opinion as an observer. What do others think?

And remember that the attorney pointed out that each of the 1000s of plaintiffs can sue in any one of the 1000s of jurisdictions. Someone can find a favorable judge some where!!!

This is what I specifically warned about over the past months. I can even quote where I said that jurisdiction shopping would be a PITA because one would have to defend themselves against an unbounded number of threats.

As the attorney Pamela points out, this issue could have been significantly mitigated if their attorneys had advised them to add an arbitration clause to the TOS and also had more sobering disclosures on their TOS so that plaintiffs couldn't just choose willynilly to make any sort of claim of injury in any jurisdiction.

Who set up the legal structure for Ethereum et al?  They apparently suck!

What are you doing to crypto-currency? Who will support Ethereum as it becomes the 666 coin? The attorney explains that they open the ecosystem to subpoena power by doing this. And you support the moral hazard of rewarding n00bs for not doing due diligence instead of letting them suffer a 30% haircut.

Effectively MIT's 666 ChainAnchor proposal which can be used for enforcing KYC, is a blacklist coming to crypto-currency thanks to Ethereum and The DAO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHcLKrkwPLQ#t=2627  <--- a real attorney's explanation

Thanks Vitalik for enslaving us!

AnonyMint predicted this in 2013, Bitcoin : The Digital Kill Switch.

If the miners decide to freeze the funds or even return the stolen funds to the owners of the DAO holers, will any courts chasing the miners world wide?

[coinyard]

So the miners having 51% mining power can decide the fork or any code any way. There is no moral hazard. There is no argument at all. You just need to convince the majority of the miners.

Somebody here actually understands PoW = miners are a "decentralized authority".

Ethereum miners have started voting in some pools on the "soft fork"...
The "soft fork" simply freezes all ETH transfers from the DAO contract (rendering the current "attacks" unprofitable)...
And there are roughly another 25 days left for miners to simply set a flag that locks up the DAO.

Ethpool is voting 99.4% in favor of a "soft fork" here:

http://ethpool.org/stats/votes

Looking at these numbers...
It's very likely miners will subsequently vote in a "hard fork" that will destroy the DAO... and return all ETH to investors.

Ethereum will not suffer from the same paralysis Bitcoin did post-Gox... and still does.

All the FUD you hear about "crypto purity" is from Bitcoin Maximalist Trolls...
Miners acting as a "decentralized authority" on ANY issue is at the heart of PoW.

Did they really act without political control driving their choice?

Vitalik et al are playing with fire as I pondered upthread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHcLKrkwPLQ#t=3864

Especially listen at 1:06:15! And listen at 1:11:15 where the attorney says Vitalik (et al) is creating dangerous legal liability for himself (themselves) by being the judge!

The likely party to be sued are those who can be identified and have a pot of money.

Vitalik just propose a change to the Etheruem protocol. It is the miners who will be responsible for the restoring the money from the theft.

The court may not agree that Vitalik has no political power. Considering how much all the mETH supporters prays at his feet, I'd say it is likely the court will find that Vitalik and his accomplices are significantly in control of the enterprise. But that is just my opinion as an observer. What do others think?

And remember that the attorney pointed out that each of the 1000s of plaintiffs can sue in any one of the 1000s of jurisdictions. Someone can find a favorable judge some where!!!

This is what I specifically warned about over the past months. I can even quote where I said that jurisdiction shopping would be a PITA because one would have to defend themselves against an unbounded number of threats.

As the attorney Pamela points out, this issue could have been significantly mitigated if their attorneys had advised them to add an arbitration clause to the TOS and also had more sobering disclosures on their TOS so that plaintiffs couldn't just choose willynilly to make any sort of claim of injury in any jurisdiction.

Who set up the legal structure for Ethereum et al?  They apparently suck!

What are you doing to crypto-currency? Who will support Ethereum as it becomes the 666 coin? The attorney explains that they open the ecosystem to subpoena power by doing this. And you support the moral hazard of rewarding n00bs for not doing due diligence instead of letting them suffer a 30% haircut.

Effectively MIT's 666 ChainAnchor proposal which can be used for enforcing KYC, is a blacklist coming to crypto-currency thanks to Ethereum and The DAO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHcLKrkwPLQ#t=2627  <--- a real attorney's explanation

Thanks Vitalik for enslaving us!

AnonyMint predicted this in 2013, Bitcoin : The Digital Kill Switch.

If the miners decide to freeze the funds or even return the stolen funds to the owners of the DAO holers, will any courts chasing the miners world wide?

It could the first time in history that the miners can show their strength and their decision can be crucial.

[Auponef]

I have voted for the soft fork, I will vote for the hard fork if the thief does not return the stolen funds and compensate.

[yelllowsin]

I have voted for the soft fork, I will vote for the hard fork if the thief does not return the stolen funds and compensate.

Yep, me too. Voted for soft fork and hard fork as the funds were stolen.

[anthonydar]

I have voted for the soft fork, I will vote for the hard fork if the thief does not return the stolen funds and compensate.

Yep, me too. Voted for soft fork and hard fork as the funds were stolen.

I have done the same. I have my own conciounce. I think it is the stolen funds, so it has to be return to the owner.

[Auponef]

I have voted for the soft fork, I will vote for the hard fork if the thief does not return the stolen funds and compensate.

Yep, me too. Voted for soft fork and hard fork as the funds were stolen.

I have done the same. I have my own conciounce. I think it is the stolen funds, so it has to be return to the owner.

It seems most of the miners agree with you. There is very small chance for the hacker to get hold of the coins.

[antiscam2000]

If hackers dump these coins price will be 50 cent

NXT died because of this!

There is enough alts out there that had 5% or 10% of supply stolen and dumped and survived it. ETH community is a bunch of betamale pussies that are scared of volatility.

@OP
Why cry like being hurt? Just sell and move on. Nobody sheds a tear over a shitcoin, really.

[anthonydar]

If hackers dump these coins price will be 50 cent

NXT died because of this!

There is enough alts out there that had 5% or 10% of supply stolen and dumped and survived it. ETH community is a bunch of betamale pussies that are scared of volatility.

@OP
Why cry like being hurt? Just sell and move on. Nobody sheds a tear over a shitcoin, really.

It depends on how much the 10% of the stolen funds worth. If that is over $60 million, somebody will be worried.