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Author Topic: That's the end of the altcoins glory?  (Read 2033 times)
smoothie
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March 17, 2013, 08:39:28 PM
 #21

makes sense... there is no point in doing the same thing twice (LTC)

This is LOL.

Litecoin actually improves on Bitcoin, get your facts straight! It is not the "same thing twice" as you put it.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Tongue

--Faster transactions  We changed a parameter or two in the software!
--Short term ASIC resistant (they wont come for a long time for LTC)  Mining is less effecient
--fpgas will be here soon, further strengthening the network  but it is improving
--Already have 2,873,000 Kh of hashing speed behind it, making it pretty stable already
--more stores and services opening up for LTC every day
--arguably/definitely the biggest community of ALT coin users to make things for it and improve upon it  We're number one at being number two!

FIFY

--Already have 2,873,000 Kh of hashing speed behind it, making it pretty stable already thus only 1 out of 2 people can perform a double spent attack
--more stores and services opening up for LTC every day including scam offerings

FIFY
completed

LOL. The Bitcoin Gang here to troll. I think everyone should read both sides of the story and not listen to Bitcoin trolls that are scared of a competing currency that is better (read: faster) than their own. It might deflate their large investments in Bitcoin in the coming years if Litecoin becomes more popular.

They are the wealthy elite and you know... wealthy elite type folks don't like to become part of the formerly wealthy elite.



Calling someone like Jutarul a troll is a shortcut to my ignore list.

No one gives a shit.

<---------------------------------------- Please press the pussy ignore button  Grin Grin Grin

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March 17, 2013, 08:43:35 PM
 #22

Litecoin will prosper. There's not much room for another one, unless it's something innovative like PPCoin. Cheap knockoffs like TRC or NVC are ultimately destined for the scrapheap.

PPC is broken and centralized through checkpointing. Enough said.

Nope not broken and no more centralized than Bitcoin. Next.

Uhh just because you say it isnt centralized doesnt make it NOT CENTRALIZED.

Sunny King is creating checkpoints for the POS algorithm every 5 blocks (or so). THAT IS CENTRALIZED DIPSHIT.

Try harder to make PPC out to be something it is not.....PPC is BROKEN.

Also the exploit in the Proof of Stake algorithm has not been proven to be fixed. Of course you knew this given you've been on this forum for such a long time right?

Fail noob is fail noob. Your account was created on February 25th, 2013. So no, your words mean nothing. Do more research and learn more about cryptos then come back and discuss with the adults.   Grin Grin Grin

No-one cares what you think Smoothie all you do is TROLL all coins except Litecoin. Troll troll troll. I've only been here a few weeks and already I know that much.

You don't think anyone listens to a word you say do you? They just see Troll Smoothie and read it for a laugh, if they haven't already ignored you.

And by your OWN logic, Bitcoin would be broken. Even now after years things still go wrong with it (read: the recent fork fiasco)

PPCoin has a bright future:

1. The number of people searching google for the phrase 'ppcoin' has tripled in size in march compared to previous months:



Litecoin did a similar thing recently. Terracoin which is also growing in size is also showing a trend increase.

2. There is a LOT of trading activity spiking up in ppcoin lately

Volume chart from vircurex:



BTC price graph:



PPcoin is also being mentioned more on the forums in recent days.

3. Lead developer Sunny is still extremely active and passionate about his vision with 'ppcoins'. Sunny is continually improving the code and is very receptive to new ideas and if something goes wrong you can trust him to fix it. The development is still active unlike a lot of the other alt coins which are barren wastelands. This is not a coin that is just a cheap copy of bitcoin with some tweaks, this a very dinstinctive and innovative coinn. PPcoin stands out amongst the other coins for being, in my opinion, the most innovative with it's proof of stake and low energy consumption. Which leads me onto 3:

4. PPcoin will likely scale better than bitcoin. Bitcoin is already running into problems with the amount of transactions and this will only get exponentially worse.  PPcoin will present an alternative. And not only that it should be more of a 'hedge' against Bitcoin since if a flaw is found in Bitcoin it is less likely to be found in PPcoin than other alt currencies.

5. Mining profitability is 150% on dustcoin right now and seems to hover around this mark consistently. (litecoin 163%, terra 135%)

6. It's market cap is 7295 btc, compared to 7168 for terracoin. This is very impressive considering how CHEAP these coins are (about $0.02 ie about 2 cents), much cheaper than terracoin.

7. PPcoin vulnerabilities have now been patched and further to this a tournament is being held to prove the strength of the system and to root out any minor bugs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152809.0) e.g. something similar to double spend for bitcoin.

8. The only downside I see is it's only on vircurex and bitparking. Btc-e don't have it (yet) but the new exchange being developed by neotrix will. The way I see it, you can buy a few k of these coins for peanuts and imo they are the only alt coin left which is cheap and has true potential. Dev coin is very cheap for example but has poor mining rewards due to 90% of the rewards going to the developers , NVC has too much of a scam image now it will never become 'big' + market cap is tiny and fishy, Terracoin is growing but imo is too similar to bitcoin and in a bubble, Namecoin was a brilliant idea but unfortunately was executed wrong and the domain names were too cheap... Actually the other downside I see of ppcoin is it uses the SHA algorithm so will probably get ASICs? This affects all coins apart from Litecoin and NVC though.


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Worldcore
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Jutarul
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March 17, 2013, 08:55:38 PM
 #23

7. PPcoin vulnerabilities have now been patched and further to this a tournament is being held to prove the strength of the system and to root out any minor bugs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152809.0) e.g. something similar to double spend for bitcoin.
Please get involved. Don't just try to sit back and watch.
The tournament is an attempt to leverage the brain power on this forum and within the ppcoin community.

8 ...Actually the other downside I see of ppcoin is it uses the SHA algorithm so will probably get ASICs?[/b] This affects all coins apart from Litecoin and NVC though.
Turns out ppcoin has very little POW exposure (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147537.0), because the main chain is mainly selected by the POS blocks. POW now is just a means to facilitate coin distribution.

Another positive aspect is that Sunny decided early on to drop micro-transactions. This makes sense, since micro-transactions are not very economical with a blockchain consensus model (a lesson the bitcoin community still has to learn IMHO). Also the currency is slightly inflationary (strongly in the first few years) - so I expect the minimal network fee to not be a problem.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
smoothie
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March 17, 2013, 08:57:32 PM
 #24

...
I know nothing about crypto.  Cheesy


You obviously dont know the difference in checkpointing purpose for BTC versus PPC.

PPC needs the checkpointing otherwise someone could fork the chain with relatively low computational power.

The funny thing is I troll with the FACTs. I dont mislead with BULLSHIT.

I am labeled a troll because people can't handle the truth.

Everything I've stated is facts and can be backed up by others on this forum.

By all means go ask Mr. Sunny King about his PPC project. Ask him about the development process and see how far you get with that...all i've gotten up until this point is SILENCE and CRICKETs.

Buy all the PPC you want. No one is saying you cant. I'm just here to inform the uninformed that PPC is broken.

Oh and by the way, people would take my word much more seriously than yours. I've been on this forum close to 2 years and you are just making 4 weeks. So welcome to the land of trolls.

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March 17, 2013, 09:20:59 PM
 #25

Smoothie famous troll on this forum  Cheesy No-one listens to him lol.


Please get involved. Don't just try to sit back and watch.
The tournament is an attempt to leverage the brain power on this forum and within the ppcoin community.

I offer mathematical expertise if it is needed (i've also written to Sunny with this offer). I have two degrees in math, both with First Class Honours. But I am lacking in the computer science department. If something needs mathematically proving and can be broken down in terms for a non-computer person to understand I can contribute to that.

Turns out ppcoin has very little POW exposure (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147537.0), because the main chain is mainly selected by the POS blocks. POW now is just a means to facilitate coin distribution.

Another positive aspect is that Sunny decided early on to drop micro-transactions. This makes sense, since micro-transactions are not very economical with a blockchain consensus model (a lesson the bitcoin community still has to learn IMHO). Also the currency is slightly inflationary (strongly in the first few years) - so I expect the minimal network fee to not be a problem.

What do you mean exactly by dropping micro-transactions?  Smiley

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March 17, 2013, 09:31:24 PM
 #26

I created my profile on February 25th, 2013 so don't listen to what I have to say as facts, only ignorance. Thanks  Grin

okay  Tongue

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March 17, 2013, 09:32:54 PM
 #27

Right now people bitcoin GPU miners can switch to mining litecoin. If they upgrade to ASICs for bitcoin, they will no longer be able to switch to Litecoin when it is more profitable to mine. Bitcoin miners will be locked into only mining bitcoins, namecoins, devcoins, groupcoins, ixcoins, i0coins, coiledcoins, and maybe even some of the trickier ones such as GeistGeld, all at once using merged mining with ASICs.

Litecoin miners (GPU miners) will mine Litecoin most likely because ASICs will make bitcoin mining with GPUs UNPROFITABLE.

Fixed That For You.

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March 17, 2013, 09:35:46 PM
 #28

With all this competition in posts, how could Alt coins be at the end of their glory ??

 Wink

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March 17, 2013, 09:41:20 PM
 #29

Right now people bitcoin GPU miners can switch to mining litecoin. If they upgrade to ASICs for bitcoin, they will no longer be able to switch to Litecoin when it is more profitable to mine. Bitcoin miners will be locked into only mining bitcoins, namecoins, devcoins, groupcoins, ixcoins, i0coins, coiledcoins, and maybe even some of the trickier ones such as GeistGeld, all at once using merged mining with ASICs.

Litecoin miners (GPU miners) will mine Litecoin most likely because ASICs will make bitcoin mining with GPUs UNPROFITABLE.

Fixed That For You.

-MarkM-


Thanks Mark. I forgot about that.

Point being...they will be locked into mining those coins.

This is what separates Litecoin from the rest.

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March 17, 2013, 09:46:56 PM
 #30

Litecoin will prosper. There's not much room for another one, unless it's something innovative like PPCoin. Cheap knockoffs like TRC or NVC are ultimately destined for the scrapheap.

Now where did I put that "haters gonna hate" gif?......

more or less retired.
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March 17, 2013, 09:51:57 PM
 #31

Please get involved.

I offer mathematical expertise if it is needed
Good. Then you may want to get involved with creating an open source documentation of ppcoin. It is badly needed and Sunny seems to have a lack of time/motivation to do it.

Another positive aspect is that Sunny decided early on to drop micro-transactions.

What do you mean exactly by dropping micro-transactions?  Smiley
The term micro-transactions is a bit fuzzy and is also a bit misused here. What is meant is rather "uneconomical" transaction, which can be quantified by: output value < network fee.
While it is still possible that the chain may have an average transaction fee to implement QoS features (to discriminate which transactions are worthwhile processing), and allows transactions to be incorporated with "output value"<"average fee", it is impossible to incorporate transactions with a net output smaller than the minimal fee (0.01PPC), something which is principally possible with bitcoin.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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March 17, 2013, 09:52:22 PM
 #32

With all this competition in posts, how could Alt coins be at the end of their glory ??

 Wink

 Grin

Few points need addressing. I see some of you have been here for a long time and learned very little.

sha256 is far more easily abused and you kids know this. I will trade perceived 'efficiency' for not being coerced into pre-ordering hardware from people with felonies and less than steller PR representatives.

If you actually look at the production costs and wasted resources, you would understand there's more to efficiency than pure power costs.

Combine that with substantial government sha256 hashpower, the highly limited transaction overhead and the recent fork...nope. Oh yeah, it's also really slow. That's the least of the disadvantages...

Bitcoin is technology and technology evolves. The first steps have already been taken. I really shouldn't have to explain.
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March 17, 2013, 09:56:15 PM
 #33

Bitcoin faggits are just made cause they can't find the right config to mine sCrypt with their GPU's or FPGA's :trlf:
sCrypt dun like you!

You know Simran, I think we all think you are a valuable member of the altcommunity, but I will be the first to say it's not cool to use a homosexual slur here. I mean, we are all here because we think Bitcoin and crypto in general is going to be a big part of some better, more fair future. I can't imagine you would really want homophobia to come with us to that future as well. We're all better then that.

more or less retired.
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March 17, 2013, 09:58:27 PM
 #34

No , it will certainly not be the end of all altcoins.

But it is funny to see all this i-am-an-early-adopter-in-(insertaltcoin)-have-thousands-of-them-and-will-be-rich-like-the-bitcoiners come to their defense.

And our favorite trolls as usual. Cheesy


Plagiarize, let no one elses work evade your eyes.
Remember why the good lord made your eyes, so don't shade your eyes but plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize. Only be sure always to call it please 'Alternative Coin'.
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March 17, 2013, 10:01:03 PM
 #35


Good. Then you may want to get involved with creating an open source documentation of ppcoin. It is badly needed and Sunny seems to have a lack of time/motivation to do it.


What would the open source documentation consist of exactly?

Perhaps we also need to draw up a To Do List of things that missing or need to be done.

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Worldcore
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March 17, 2013, 10:02:33 PM
 #36

What would the open source documentation consist of exactly?

Perhaps we also need to draw up a To Do List of things that missing or need to be done.

Go through Sunny King's C++ code and figure out what the christ is going on in it.  It's poorly commented and difficult to read through.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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March 17, 2013, 10:04:05 PM
 #37

What would the open source documentation consist of exactly?

Perhaps we also need to draw up a To Do List of things that missing or need to be done.

Go through Sunny King's C++ code and figure out what the christ is going on in it.  It's poorly commented and difficult to read through.

I'm not a programmer, I'm a mathematician...

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Worldcore
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March 17, 2013, 10:05:11 PM
 #38

What would the open source documentation consist of exactly?

Perhaps we also need to draw up a To Do List of things that missing or need to be done.

Go through Sunny King's C++ code and figure out what the christ is going on in it.  It's poorly commented and difficult to read through.

This only adds to the suspicion that his code is still broken.

No comments, no documentation, no public discussion of development.

Sunny King obviously has something to hide. Judging from his track record this is true. He was outted by Jutarul in December 2012 about the POS exploit in his code.


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                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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March 17, 2013, 10:06:29 PM
 #39

Maybe a little less copy/paste whitepaper, too.

He should relaunch with scrypt and have it decentralized from the start if he can actually get PoS to function securely.

Or if he doesn't..someone else will. Damn it, here comes another alt  Sad
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March 17, 2013, 10:09:45 PM
 #40


Good. Then you may want to get involved with creating an open source documentation of ppcoin. It is badly needed and Sunny seems to have a lack of time/motivation to do it.


What would the open source documentation consist of exactly?

Perhaps we also need to draw up a To Do List of things that missing or need to be done.
I suppose, first thing to do is to spawn a separate thread to organize this.
The content should consist of a mathematical description of the POS scheme and ideally should lead to a better understanding between stake, stake generation power, block chain reorganizations and attack vectors.

Here are some specific questions:
- how much stake is needed to protect the chain?
- what is the ideal granularity?
- which POS sampling strategy is most successful in terms of consecutive blocks? (May need game theory -> tournament)
- how does POW and POS interact? Is POW denial by POS miners effective?
- ...

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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