Is the MTGox - Coinlab deal in trouble? Yes. It is in litigation!

[Severian]

Just because I ask the question doesn't mean I intend to do it. I just want to know the legality of it.

That "you" was meant in the universal sense, not in the humanitee sense. Apologies for confusion.

My meaning is that we have a tool to protect us from predators and I see people practically begging to tell the predators exactly how much meat will be supplied by their corpse. That's idiotic.

[1713291729]

1713291729

[Severian]

you have the civic duty as a citizen to voluntarily fill out the appropriate forms and report yourself to the government. Failure to do so is a federal crime.

We have a civic duty to upend the dominant political and economic system. That's what Bitcoin was created for.

[RodeoX]

If audited, you will have to explain how you sent 1k to japan and received 5 back. Doesnt matter where it came from.

What idiot leaves an auditable trail in Bitcoin? It was created to allow your financial life to be private.

To be clear, bitcoin was not invented so that you may evade taxes. You are absolutely responsible for paying your taxes. Failure to do so can result in the same fines and prison time as any other criminal.
If you don't want to pay your share of tax, then work through your elected officials and change the tax law. There is *basically no such thing as tax free income in the U.S.

[lebing]

If audited, you will have to explain how you sent 1k to japan and received 5 back. Doesnt matter where it came from.

What idiot leaves an auditable trail in Bitcoin? It was created to allow your financial life to be private.

It might be easy to create an unauditable trail for 1k dollars... not so much for 500k. Then again, thats a good problem to have I suppose.

[Severian]

To be clear, bitcoin was not invented so that you may evade taxes.

According to the creator, it was made to "win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of
freedom for several years."

If you can find the "don't forget to pay your taxes" part of the Bitcoin code, please indicate it.

[siulynot]

[Severian]

It might be easy to create an unauditable trail for 1k dollars... not so much for 500k. Then again, thats a good problem to have I suppose.

The guys buying half a mill worth of Bitcoins already have their balls in the IRS vice. They won't wander far from the reservation anyway.

It's us hoi-polloi leaving ourselves open to the wolves that worry me. If the political powers ever decide to crackdown on Bitcoin users, all of those Coinbase, Gox, etc. customers that gave up details are in the crosshairs.

[Rygon]

Why would you want to trade bitcoin back to fiat?

And for those with a half million in USD worth of bitcoin, where 99% of it is considered profit, I would assume they would be looking to make "investement" in big screen TVs (bitcoinstore.com) or cars. Ironically, holders of bitcoin looking to exchange for fiat might help expand the marketplace for bitcoin, in an effort to hide income.

[Rygon]

Too bad I lost all my bitcoins on a unfortunate internet super highway accident.

I lost it all on Satoshi Dice. 

[optimator]

It is legally grey as a currency. As an asset its very clear - when it increases above what you paid for it, you are supposed to pay taxes on that.

IANAA.... but in the US when an asset appreciates (gold, stocks, etc) you don't pay taxes on the appreciated value. You only pay taxes on the appreciated value when you sell it.

[ArticMine]

I recognize that the IRS instils great fear into the hearts of every United States citizen and resident, but the issue here is will this deal actually happen, get delayed or even get cancelled, and what impact this will have if any on the Bitcoin price.

[jimbobway]

I recognize that the IRS instils great fear into the hearts of every United States citizen and resident, but the issue here is will this deal actually happen, get delayed or even get cancelled, and what impact this will have if any on the Bitcoin price.

Why would you speculate that the deal is in trouble?  Are there any links you can provide for this?  Also, the title does seem a little like FUD.

[ArticMine]

I recognize that the IRS instils great fear into the hearts of every United States citizen and resident, but the issue here is will this deal actually happen, get delayed or even get cancelled, and what impact this will have if any on the Bitcoin price.

Why would you speculate that the deal is in trouble?  Are there any links you can provide for this?  Also, the title does seem a little like FUD.

I posted my concerns in another thread which I linked to in my OP. Here they are for clarity

I am starting to have some doubts if this deal is even going to happen as it would appear that things are not going according to plan.

1) According to http://coinlab.com/transition, the alpha and beta phases were supposed to be completed by March 15, 2013, last Friday. Has anyone been transitioned?
Furthermore all the United States and Canadian accounts are supposed to be migrated by this coming Friday March 22, 2013, I am starting to wonder if this is going to happen at all.

2) There has been silence on the part of CoinLab for two weeks in their "official thread" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148147.0;all

Basically Coinlab could end any possible FUD by providing an update and answering questions. At that time depending on the update and answers I will amend my title.

[lebing]

It might be easy to create an unauditable trail for 1k dollars... not so much for 500k. Then again, thats a good problem to have I suppose.

The guys buying half a mill worth of Bitcoins already have their balls in the IRS vice. They won't wander far from the reservation anyway.

It's us hoi-polloi leaving ourselves open to the wolves that worry me. If the political powers ever decide to crackdown on Bitcoin users, all of those Coinbase, Gox, etc. customers that gave up details are in the crosshairs.

What makes you think they are already in the crosshairs? There are plenty of nerds who got lucky playing around with mining rigs over the last few years and some average joes that went all in and held their strong hand. If you are implying something other than (potential) evasion happening in general with these folks, I would tend to disagree. Just because you speculate doesnt mean you sell drugs.

[Dalkore]

If audited, you will have to explain how you sent 1k to japan and received 5 back. Doesnt matter where it came from.

What idiot leaves an auditable trail in Bitcoin? It was created to allow your financial life to be private.

Well if someone seized your wallet computer then there would be a trail.  Also if you transferred money from your bank to an exchange, that would be a trail.

[Dalkore]

you have the civic duty as a citizen to voluntarily fill out the appropriate forms and report yourself to the government. Failure to do so is a federal crime.

We have a civic duty to upend the dominant political and economic system. That's what Bitcoin was created for.

I am not sure if the is our "civic duty" to upend dominant political and economic.  I for one liked on paper our constitutional democracy, the problem is that our representatives don't actually follow the rules and we can't seem to actual elect someone who will.

"That" is not what Bitcoin was created for.  It was created and a alternative and given to the people for many purposes.   With that said, you can use it for those ends if you would like.

[Severian]

If you are implying something other than (potential) evasion happening in general with these folks, I would tend to disagree. Just because you speculate doesnt mean you sell drugs.

It's not about drugs. TPTB will possibly see Bitcoin and its users as an economic threat in the near future.

Remember that these are the mindsets that invaded Iraq, set up Gitmo and enforce the Patriot Act, among other things. Thugs don't care about law or due process.

[Severian]

I am not sure if the is our "civic duty" to upend dominant political and economic. 

If one is of a more accepting nature when it comes to centralized authority and the power of the collective, then civic duty would be perceived as upholding that authority. If one is more inclined to favor the rights of the individual over the power of the collective, the civic duty would entail defending against that power.

I don't fault anyone for their perceptions but I will fault people for not exploring other avenues of political thought.

"That" is not what Bitcoin was created for. 

Bitcoin's creator was explicit in his intentions. Bitcoin is a political weapon creating a new territory of freedom for users. While I don't adhere to all of Satoshi's thoughts, this one is unmistakeable in its clarity.

[Dalkore]

I am not sure if the is our "civic duty" to upend dominant political and economic. 

If one is of a more accepting nature when it comes to centralized authority and the power of the collective, then civic duty would be perceived as upholding that authority. If one is more inclined to favor the rights of the individual over the power of the collective, the civic duty would entail defending against that power.

I don't fault anyone for their perceptions but I will fault people for not exploring other avenues of political thought.

"That" is not what Bitcoin was created for. 

Bitcoin's creator was explicit in his intentions. Bitcoin is a political weapon creating a new territory of freedom for users. While I don't adhere to all of Satoshi's thoughts, this one is unmistakeable in its clarity.

I am open to all forms of political thought to weigh out their benefits and failings.  That is why I am here supporting this project.  We have needed competition in money for too long.

[jimbobway]

Basically Coinlab could end any possible FUD by providing an update and answering questions. At that time depending on the update and answers I will amend my title.

Ok, sounds fair and thanks for pointing me to your links.  I must have overlooked them.