OKPAY debit cards, 10% tax Cyprus debited?

[matt4054]

Hello,

Anyone here has an OKPAY debit card?

My balance has lost 10% of value over the week-end and I highly suspect this to be the result of the events in Cyprus, CSC24Seven being a service of the Cyprus Central Bank. However, I haven't got any confirmation yet from OKPAY, and my card statement is empty (just the balance has been reduced)

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[davout]

wow, glad I did not follow up on their e-mails to integrate their service into Bitcoin-Central

[caveden]

Davout, in Portuguese there's a proverb that translated is something like "Don't spit up, it may fall back on your face".

France is not that immune from these kind of heists... nobody in the Eurozone is, actually.

[ArticMine]

It is Cyprus since these debit cards are issued by a financial institution in Cyprus. 10% is high it should be 6.75% below 100,000 EUR and 9.9% above 100,000 EUR so I would contact OKPAY to get the amount withdrawn reduced to the correct amount.

[caveden]

If OKPay sums everything on a single account of theirs, it might fall mostly in the 10% cut.

[justusranvier]

France is not that immune from these kind of heists... nobody in the Eurozone is, actually.

Nobody in the world is immune.

The only safe thing is bitcoins at an address whose private keys you exclusively control.

[ArticMine]

If OKPay sums everything on a single account of theirs, it might fall mostly in the 10% cut.

The cards are issued by an "electronic money institution" in Cyprus so there may be a case for the lower rate of 6.75% for amounts under 100,000 EUR. https://www.okpay.com/en/company/agreements/debit-cards-tos.html. In any event it should be 9.9% not 10% for amounts over 100,000 EUR.

[matt4054]

I do not want to spread false information, but I just find it surprising that depositors are not informed of what's going on and I think this will only make the bank run scenario more likely: the only thing I can be considering now is whether I will withdraw all remaining funds from my account or not, before they all burn because of some foreign state's bankruptcy.

I will keep you updated of the response from OKPAY. So far they have just not answered it at all.

[justusranvier]

I would say a pile of gold coins is pretty safe as well.

It's not possible to memorize a pile of gold coins.

[caveden]

I would say a pile of gold coins is pretty safe as well.

At least while you don't get burgled.

[ArticMine]

France is not that immune from these kind of heists... nobody in the Eurozone is, actually.

Nobody in the world is immune.

The only safe thing is bitcoins at an address whose private keys you exclusively control.

Was OKPAY not the victim of a Bitcoin double spend? It was only resolved as a result the honesty of the sender of the coins. I wonder what would have happened if the sender withheld 6.75% as a "network tax" when correcting the double spend?

Nothing is actually immune and yes that includes Bitcoin.

[Piper67]

My OKPay account is still at the same level, no 10% discount 

And Bitcoin deposits appear to be back online.

[matt4054]

My OKPay account is still at the same level, no 10% discount  

I want to make it clear:

My OKPAY account was NOT debited.
OKPAY is based in the Virgin British Islands, as far as I know.

Only my OKPAY Debit Card balance was debited.
OKPAY used the services of CSC24Seven for their debit card.
And CSC24Seven is regulated by the Central Bank of Cyprus.

I can't tell for sure if it was 6.75% or 9.9%, because the transaction statement is empty (maybe not updated yet)

I hope things are more clear now.

[paraipan]

Davout, in Portuguese there's a proverb that translated is something like "Don't spit up, it may fall back on your face".

France is not that immune from these kind of heists... nobody in the Eurozone is, actually.

+1 

[freakying99]

There is nothing worse than propaganda, and bitcoiners are full of it.

As much as i dont like fiat monetary system, before this 10% or whatever cut can be applied, local law must be done and this takes time, so you have time to withdraw your funds.

BTW this is the dumbiest thing that these parrots could come with, it only creates possibility for bank run where there could be game over. Why not just loan (aka create) more money, this proven way is much safer choice and the dumb masses wouldnt mind.

[ArticMine]

My OKPay account is still at the same level, no 10% discount  

I want to make it clear:

My OKPAY account was NOT debited.
OKPAY is based in the Virgin British Islands, as far as I know.

Only my OKPAY Debit Card balance was debited.
OKPAY used the services of CSC24Seven for their debit card.
And CSC24Seven is regulated by the Central Bank of Cyprus.

I can't tell for sure if it was 6.75% or 9.9%, because the transaction statement is empty (maybe not updated yet)

I hope things are more clear now.

Can you move what is left of your money out of the debit card and back to your OKPAY account?

[matt4054]

Can you move what is left of your money out of the debit card and back to your OKPAY account?

Yes you can, at a 3% fee.

[matt4054]

Here's a follow-up:

Without any information from OKPAY (which I find lame), I called the support line of the Cyprus-based card issuer, and I had a friendly guy on the line from CSC24Seven. After checking my card holder status, he gave me the following information:

The "rogue debit" on the card was indeed initiated by Cyprus authorities because of the ongoing events, they affected all card holders in Cyprus.

However, the card issuer announced me over the phone that these debits would be compensated by the bank, for eMoney card holders, within a week. Since the information that was given to me seemed transparent and credible, and the guy on the phone was obviously having a hard time explaining all this, I decided that I would not withdraw the remaining funds right now and wait for a week.

I will keep you updated, for those interested.

[paraipan]

Just received this email a few moments ago, it's related to CSC24Seven

Cyprus bailout effect
   
Dear Customer,

As you have probably already learned from the news, the Cypriot government is planning to introduce a one-time tax on all customer accounts held with Cypriot financial institution. In order to secure the collection of this tax, many customers have had funds blocked against their accounts held in Cyprus-based banking institutions.

UWC Financial Services Ltd issued a statement confirming that Cyprus bailout will have no effect on the funds held in our customers accounts, as these funds are kept outside Cyprus. For our UWCFS Quick Cards it is regrettable that customers that are holders of the CSC24Seven issued cards will have probably noticed that an unrecognised transaction has been issued on their cards over the weekend 16th-17th March 2013.

CSC24Seven the card issuing bank has originated these transactions under instruction from the government of Cyprus to ensure the collection of this tax from all account holders. While it is still unclear whether the tax will affect all accounts or just savings accounts, bank accounts or specific other types of accounts remains to be confirmed but until the final decision (expected Tuesday 19th March 2013) is announced, the funds blocked on UWCFS Quick Cards are under the control and disposal of the card issuing bank (CSC24Seven).

CSC24Seven has assured UWC Financial Services Ltd, if in the event that e-money (pre-paid card) accounts are granted exclusion from the bailout scheme, the blocked funds will be reversed back to pre-pard card accounts.

UWC Financial Services Ltd are in continued communication with CSC24Seven and we are continually monitoring the situation and endeavour to keep our customers updated on any further development.

You can find more information on the situation in Cyprus in our daily market reviews from Mayzus Investment Company Ltd http://www.mayzus.com/en/market-reviews/marketreview-3444.html

Kind regards,
Nikolay Rozhok
CEO
UWC Financial Services Ltd

[caveden]

As much as i dont like fiat monetary system, before this 10% or whatever cut can be applied, local law must be done and this takes time, so you have time to withdraw your funds.

No, they don't. The amount that will be taken will be calculated based on last Friday's balance, if I'm not mistaken. Actually, these amounts are already frozen, as OKPay mail above says.