Any thoughts on when to change a miner? Did some calculation for 0.02cents/kwh.

[MineRonny]

Hi all,

For guys who has 0.02cents/kwh, when do you decide to change your miners?

Was doing some math if i were to rent a place for miners.

Assuming if i were to rent a small place which can only hold ~48000 watts
Renovation costs: 6250 USD
APW3 Power supply : 140 USD each (after shipping)
Maintenance cost + Rental per month : 750 USD

If i were to get S7,
Total units = 48000watts / 1293watts = 37units.
37 units of S7 + 37 APW3 PSUs = 37 * 365 + 37 * 140 = 18685 USD
Total TH/s = 173.9

Total investment + renovation = 24935 USD with 750 USD monthly maintenance cost.

I assume 2.9% difficulty increase, with 2% pools fees.
According to https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator , it would take 399days for me to ROI.

If i were to get S9,
Total units = 48000watts / 1275watts = 37units.
37units of S9 + 37 APW3 PSUs = 37 * 1993.3 + 37 * 140 = 78932.1
Total TH/s = 478.41

Total investment + renovation = 85182.1 USD with 750 USD monthly maintenance cost.

I assume 2.9% difficulty increase, with 2% pools fees.
According to https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator , it would take 399days for me to ROI.

All of this is assuming 100% working with no breakdowns. It seems like its not even good to mine for 0.02cents/kwh, or is there something that i'm missing?

There is some questions i'd like to ask:

1) Does the miners draw the amount of watts shown on bitmain's website, or it actually draws more?

2) Is it safe to actually assume 2.9% difficulty increase bi-weekly? I've gotten to this number by calculating the average difficulty increase.

3) Should i get S7 or S9? By getting S9, we're paying 166.55 USD/THs . By getting S7, we're paying 111.75 USD/THs. ( After including power supply cost, and including average maintenance cost per TH. )

4) I understand that renovation cost + PSU cost is fixed, as they can be reused again. That brings me to the question : If thats the case, how do you actually determine when to change your miners?


Please let me know, if there is anything that i forgot to factor inside the calculation. I've not started mining yet, and i'd like to make sure that i do my calculations before venturing into it. Thanks!

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[dsattler]

If your not living at one of the poles you'll get a lot of heat from the miners in the summer and you want to dissipate this.
So you have to include some cooling or ventilation method in your calculation, otherwise your miners will have a lot of downtime.

[talks_cheep]

In the past, years ago, the rule of thumb was to mine for 3 months and then sell the miners and use the proceeds to buy new miners, rinse and repeat. I do not think the rule is up to date any more, you would have to mine longer to offset the rise in diff, halved block reward, absurdly high miner cost, etc.

[MineRonny]

If your not living at one of the poles you'll get a lot of heat from the miners in the summer and you want to dissipate this.
So you have to include some cooling or ventilation method in your calculation, otherwise your miners will have a lot of downtime.

Thanks. I forgot to allocate watts to cooling. However, i believe that we'll be able to maintain 48000watts for miners as we actually have a lil spare watts.

In the past, years ago, the rule of thumb was to mine for 3 months and then sell the miners and use the proceeds to buy new miners, rinse and repeat. I do not think the rule is up to date any more, you would have to mine longer to offset the rise in diff, halved block reward, absurdly high miner cost, etc.

Thats some interesting insights. Something that i will definitely consider. The biggest problem is difficulty. With the halving, the prices maintained at 6xxUSD, and the difficulty is rising constantly.

[leowonderful]

1. The power usage is based off of the power usage in lab conditions running their 93%-efficient APW3 PSU. Now, assuming you don't use those, you're going to get a small bit more power usage due to the fact that most psus are not as efficient, though some do come close and beat the AWP3.

2. Difficulty is not easily calculated, and it will occasionally drop like it is now, or rise just a smidge like it did for a while. Assuming you buy right now and it gets delivered right this moment(which is impossible), you'll be off to a good start with the lower difficulty that will come the next difficulty correction period.

3. S7s are generally cooler and more reliable than S9s imo, but really it's up to you which one to buy. S7s have held their own for quite some time and have had lots of users, while the S9 is slightly less documented than the S7. it's your pick.

4. Generally, I use old miners until they make less than 3.5$ a day. With your cheap electricity, you may want to sell a bit earlier, as your electrical costs are comparable to some chinese miners and people with nearly free electricity. This means you may want to sell early, so that buyers are more inclined to buy the miner; they'll make at least a bit of profit.

[MineRonny]

1. The power usage is based off of the power usage in lab conditions running their 93%-efficient APW3 PSU. Now, assuming you don't use those, you're going to get a small bit more power usage due to the fact that most psus are not as efficient, though some do come close and beat the AWP3.

2. Difficulty is not easily calculated, and it will occasionally drop like it is now, or rise just a smidge like it did for a while. Assuming you buy right now and it gets delivered right this moment(which is impossible), you'll be off to a good start with the lower difficulty that will come the next difficulty correction period.

3. S7s are generally cooler and more reliable than S9s imo, but really it's up to you which one to buy. S7s have held their own for quite some time and have had lots of users, while the S9 is slightly less documented than the S7. it's your pick.

4. Generally, I use old miners until they make less than 3.5$ a day. With your cheap electricity, you may want to sell a bit earlier, as your electrical costs are comparable to some chinese miners and people with nearly free electricity. This means you may want to sell early, so that buyers are more inclined to buy the miner; they'll make at least a bit of profit.

Great insight. Thank you!

[Gahs]

If your not living at one of the poles you'll get a lot of heat from the miners in the summer and you want to dissipate this.
So you have to include some cooling or ventilation method in your calculation, otherwise your miners will have a lot of downtime.

Come to think of it, the people living at the poles (antartica) seems to be unaware of bitcoins.

Antartica is a good place to site a mining farm, you spend less on ventilation

[Daffadile]

0.02cents/kwh ?? Gees where do you live ! 
I have never seen under $0.09/kwh

[HerbPean]

2% pool fees ... it's time to change for Kano.

0.9% and we got the TX fees

[notlist3d]

2% pool fees ... it's time to change for Kano.

0.9% and we got the TX fees

If you look at blocks to Kano currently look's very positive: https://kano.is/index.php?k=pblocks  Short term looked amazing to over past few day's:

Last 5 Blocks   14.5hrs   105.2%   60.64%   60.64%   0.1901   164.91%   171.95%
Last 10 Blocks   1.5days   104.7%   76.54%   76.54%   0.2414   130.66%   135.52%
Last 25 Blocks   4.4days   103.6%   91.65%   91.65%   0.3584   109.11%   112.07%
Last 50 Blocks   8.2days   104.0%   83.15%   83.15%   0.1116   120.26%   124.00%

I still can see why PPS for some makes sense as electricity cost is there even if a pool does have bad luck on blocks, but Kano I agree is a great example of how PPLNS can work.  And it has a huge following of loyal miners, I don't know that I have seen a mining pool with a more loyal userbase.