Should signatures be removed from the marketplace or be more strict?

[xetsr]

I see the marketplace as a place of business and I'm sure others would agree. Rules should be much more strict if paid signatures are gonna be allowed. It's annoying to keep seeing threads get bumped down and off the first page (which does matter) because these guys want to keep responding and bumping with basically the same post repeated several times. Not only are they bumping down the more legit threads but also keeping scammers' threads alive and at the top.

I know this has been posted several times before but isn't it time for a change? It's getting pretty bad and slowly killing all sections of the marketplace.

Mods do a great job and delete these type of posts but maybe it's time to start making examples out of others to discourage from sig spamming in these section.

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[Chris!]

I had suggested this a few months ago, same with all of the 'captcha' services that constantly got bumped. Honestly I never go to the marketplace section anymore because of this. It's hard to find actual people/businesses posting about actual services.

What I was told when I asked about this was 'it just seems like there's a lot of threads because they get bumped all the time. Nothing we can do about that.'

[Quickseller]

I think this kind of activity should be considered more heavily when deciding if someone is deserving of a ban for insubstantial posts + paid sig.

[Lutpin]

Are we talking about the whole marketplace section (with all sub boards) or just specific areas inside the marketplace?
Because there seem to be sections where this problem is more present (being the digital goods, lending and services sections, imo)
and such where I don't see a big problem at all (the collectibles area for example is pretty unaffected in terms of signature spam).

If removing signatures is the to-go option, I also don't think all sections should be affected.
Yes, there's no need for (paid) signatures in e.g. the lending section.
However, in Gambling (yes, I agree, the "tipster" threads and a few others are very bad) and Service Discussion for example, I see a reason to keep signatures in space.

As for an approach from the rule side, both, with forum rules and the rules signature campaigns pose themselves, I'm generally a fan of more stirct ones and a firm enforcing of those.

[xetsr]

Are we talking about the whole marketplace section (with all sub boards) or just specific areas inside the marketplace?
Because there seem to be sections where this problem is more present (being the digital goods, lending and services sections, imo)
and such where I don't see a big problem at all (the collectibles area for example is pretty unaffected in terms of signature spam).

If removing signatures is the to-go option, I also don't think all sections should be affected.
Yes, there's no need for (paid) signatures in e.g. the lending section.
However, in Gambling (yes, I agree, the "tipster" threads and a few others are very bad) and Service Discussion for example, I see a reason to keep signatures in space.

As for an approach from the rule side, both, with forum rules and the rules signature campaigns pose themselves, I'm generally a fan of more stirct ones and a firm enforcing of those.

Main boards would be currency exchange, goods and lending to start.

I don't even visit the gambling section anymore due to lack of new sites or ideas (dice is getting pretty lame) and so many of the threads you've mentioned.

Overall, the marketplace needs to be completely revamped but I doubt that will ever happen.

Looks like bitcointalk.org is turning into just another get paid to post forum. I honestly do believe sig campaigns RUINED this forum. Others might disagree but how many of you were here a couple of years ago when sig spam wasn't that big of a problem? How many of you are actually here now for anything other than getting paid to post?

[helloeverybody]

Obviously i have a signature but ive noticed myself some un needed bumping just to boost campaigns. Id be happy for this to be implemented as well but just made so that signatures dont show whenever you post their since most campaigns dont allow signatures to be removed.

[tommorisonwebdesign]

I've been burned time and time again for talking about this that I don't even know what to say anymore. There were some good posters over a year ago that made the forum nice to participate in. There was some sig spam but not a lot. I have noticed that there are rarely any meaningful conversation in the above mentioned sections. I think there should be reform, but I don't see that happening soon.

All I can give is give the advise I was told "Quit bitching and report to moderator"

[Quickseller]

The issue with spam has improved over the last year, not gotten worse (the same can probably be said about the last two years as well). The gambling section is probably one of the worse in terms of useless threads/replies/ signature spam.

This is an issue pretty much across the board for ~all the marketplace sections. Part of the issue is that it is not unreasonable to warn people about a probable scam, even multiple times, and it is not unreasonable to ask questions prior to agreeing to trade with someone, and it is in the seller's best interest to have these questions asked (and answered) in their thread because it prevents them from having to answer the same question multiple times. I once sold a coin to someone who was asking questions and commenting on physical coin threads for months (if not a year) -- for a long time I thought he was just posting to get his post count up (despite his coherent comments and conversations) - it turns out that he was just waiting for the right coin/deal (probably).

The root issue is that all of the above is abused by the signature spammers. There are many threads that I outright ignore because I can tell just by their title that there be a bunch of useless posts abusing the above. I often see people making almost the exact same points that I have made (or saying very similar things) in threads when I have warned of some sort of danger. 

I think the issue is a little bit worse recently (especially today) because of the halving. I suspect that the amount of activity has likely spiked, along with the number of useless posts (even by those who do not normally post this way).

I am not sure what the solution should be to this. At the very least, the mods with ban authority should be on the lookout for this kind of abuse, and if their other posting history is indictive of spam/insubstantial posts, then a ban should be issued. Maybe disabling signatures in the market place might be a solution, however this would probably be controversial because most paid sigs are somewhat related to the marketplace.

[jackg]

I believe that we should put in sanctions for both members and managers of signature campaigns.
The managers are the people who should bereviewing the quality of the posts of the members of the gsignature campaign!

Also, I feel a removal of signature campaigns that say things like "75% of posts should be made in the Gambling section each week" as this is obviously going to lead to signature spamming (as there aren't many threads that would interest certain types of people in the gambling sections)!

In my time on this forum, I've had less than 20 posts deleted out of the 1300+ that I've posted too (nd even I'm accused of signature spamming on my trust)!

[SFR10]

Main boards would be currency exchange, goods and lending to start.

I think Auction should also be a part of it. Also only Digital goods section should be the one and not the entire board involving it (as mentioned by Lutpin).

Others might disagree but how many of you were here a couple of years ago when sig spam wasn't that big of a problem? How many of you are actually here now for anything other than getting paid to post?

I haven't been here that long but since last year, I feel that overall mods are less strict than they used to be. I think there was more punishments back then and now there's a higher tolerance prior to punishing users and that might be the reason for surge of spammers as of late.

How many of you are actually here now for anything other than getting paid to post?

I just recently got out of sig campaigns (due to real life work), so I no longer get paid to post (but It doesn't matter that much since it's just recent). The thing is, the longer I stay, it makes me hate myself more for joining sig campaigns back in the days.


My conclusion:
There are some users on mentioned sections that have their own signatures, and if signatures be removed from those section, then they'll be affected as well, so the better option would be making a limit and making the situation more strict instead, so there won't be an incentive for posting on involved sections.

[Joel_Jantsen]

I see the marketplace as a place of business and I'm sure others would agree. Rules should be much more strict if paid signatures are gonna be allowed. It's annoying to keep seeing threads get bumped down and off the first page (which does matter) because these guys want to keep responding and bumping with basically the same post repeated several times. Not only are they bumping down the more legit threads but also keeping scammers' threads alive and at the top.

Blind posters is what the Marketplace section is made of.Specially the lending section. Repetitive posts over and over.We can always report such posts to moderators anyway.I have done that and mods do take action if someone is utterly shit posting.

I know this has been posted several times before but isn't it time for a change? It's getting pretty bad and slowly killing all sections of the marketplace.

Forget market place,we need to cure the most important section of the forum IE Bitcoin Discussion.That is a living habitat for all the sig spammers.You can expect the most shit quality post in bitcoin discussion after the Gambling section.

Mods do a great job and delete these type of posts but maybe it's time to start making examples out of others to discourage from sig spamming in these section.

There is nothing much you can do expect,only allow campaign managers like Lutpin to recruit campaign posters.I believe the root cause of all this starts with a campaign manager,having a good campaign manager solves almost 90% of the shit posting problem.People like Gianluca/Fortunejac/YoShit/Secondstrade don't care about forum at all and hence hire the shit posting army.

[Lutpin]

Looks like bitcointalk.org is turning into just another get paid to post forum. I honestly do believe sig campaigns RUINED this forum.

I think we have to distinguish between the different signature campaigns.
I think signature campaigns are not a problem in general, but those that aren't firmly enough managed are.
Spam ruins every sort of forum and if signatur campaigns encourage spam, they're part of the problem.
Not all campaigns do.
(That's however just my opinion)

Others might disagree but how many of you were here a couple of years ago when sig spam wasn't that big of a problem?

I wasn't and I can't say how the situation was two years ago, or even three/four years ago.
I can however say how the situation is now and I can try to work on improving the current situation.

How many of you are actually here now for anything other than getting paid to post?

Yes, I'm on DannyHamiltons spam/Ignorelist, yes, I'm being publicly displayed together with the worst of spammers.
Why's that? Because I wear a signature that doesn't look as plain as others ("Could be mistaken to be paid for").
I was never enrolled in a signature campaign (I do manage a few) and I was never paid for any of my posts.
I wear my signature the way I do because I want to. It didn't prevent me from getting on Dannys list.
Doesn't change the fact that being paid for my posts is the last thing I want, I've got other incentives to participate in a discussion.

There are some users on mentioned sections that have their own signatures, and if signatures be removed from those section, then they'll be affected as well, so the better option would be making a limit and making the situation more strict instead, so there won't be an incentive for posting on involved sections.

Check your PMs.

[redsn0w]

..
I have asked this more than once, and I will ask it again with the hope of (finally) getting an answer:
When someone brings back an old thread, how old do you think the last answer should be to report that reply / user? (my rule of thumb is around 3 months, but I would like to hear opinions on that). Regarding this issue, I think inactive threads should be automatically locked (after x weeks / months, allowing only the OP to unlock them).

* SebastianJu was once banned for this, was not?

I don't think old thread should be automatically locked after 'x weeks/months' and SebastianJu wasn't banned for that reason, he was banned due this:

SebastianJu, you were temporarily banned because you kept making multiple posts in a row, which that could have been posted in one. You have been warned about this before and having a paid signature doesn't help.

Example 1
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1306301.msg13885766#msg13885766
Four consecutive posts that could have been posted in one.

Example 2
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1359877.msg13886091#msg13886091
Another 3 consecutive posts.

Example 3
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1359877.msg13887359#msg13887359
Another 3 consecutive posts.

Example 4
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1359877.msg13890264#msg13890264
Another 2.

Example 5
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1359877.msg13890417#msg13890417
Another 2.

These are just five examples from yesterday and today. I'm pretty sure I could have found more, but I'm not going to bother.

Though it might be important to know if this might be an automated ban of some kind. Can this be? Are there banbots on the forum?

This was not an automated ban, but I've written (and I'm running) a bot that checks posts made by newbies.

[The_prodigy]

Looks like bitcointalk.org is turning into just another get paid to post forum. I honestly do believe sig campaigns RUINED this forum.

I think we have to distinguish between the different signature campaigns.
I think signature campaigns are not a problem in general, but those that aren't firmly enough managed are.
Spam ruins every sort of forum and if signatur campaigns encourage spam, they're part of the problem.
Not all campaigns do.
(That's however just my opinion)

Others might disagree but how many of you were here a couple of years ago when sig spam wasn't that big of a problem?

I wasn't and I can't say how the situation was two years ago, or even three/four years ago.
I can however say how the situation is now and I can try to work on improving the current situation.

How many of you are actually here now for anything other than getting paid to post?

Yes, I'm on DannyHamiltons spam/Ignorelist, yes, I'm being publicly displayed together with the worst of spammers.
Why's that? Because I wear a signature that doesn't look as plain as others ("Could be mistaken to be paid for").
I was never enrolled in a signature campaign (I do manage a few) and I was never paid for any of my posts.
I wear my signature the way I do because I want to. It didn't prevent me from getting on Dannys list.
Doesn't change the fact that being paid for my posts is the last thing I want, I've got other incentives to participate in a discussion.

There are some users on mentioned sections that have their own signatures, and if signatures be removed from those section, then they'll be affected as well, so the better option would be making a limit and making the situation more strict instead, so there won't be an incentive for posting on involved sections.

Check your PMs.

Signature Campaign Managers should take action. About the spammers that just keep spamming posts or something. They should be more strict about it. About the spammers, I couldn't blame them because the threads become narrow due to many signature campaigns and posters who are already saying what they think. And they cannot post to the other threads because they don't have knowledge about that topic.

Example:

1.Mining- Not everyone here is mining right (including me). Of course, we cannot post in that thread about the hardware, costing and other stuffs about mining.
2. Technical Discussion- Not all of the posters are well equipped with the right or advance knowledge about the bitcoin.
3. Altcoin- Many here are just focused or bitcoin is the only crypto-currency that they know. So, they cannot post in the altcoin discussion.

These are some of the reasons why they spam in one thread. I admit these infos are not accurate and it is only based on my best of knowledge.

[Lutpin]

Signature Campaign Managers should take action.

We are going to, check SMAS.

About the spammers that just keep spamming posts or something. They should be more strict about it.

Being more strict only works if all campaigns participate.
Otherwise, you weed out the spammers from most campaigns only to see them being paid in the two or three campaigns that don't give a fuck about this forum.

About the spammers, I couldn't blame them because the threads become narrow due to many signature campaigns and posters who are already saying what they think. And they cannot post to the other threads because they don't have knowledge about that topic.

Then they shouldn't post at all.
If given the option between not posting and posting spam, one should always opt for the former.

These are some of the reasons why they spam in one thread. I admit these infos are not accurate and it is only based on my best of knowledge.

I doubt it. Most spam because they get paid for it. If they wouldn't get, they might not be spamming.
That might not be accurate either, It's based on the best of my knowledge.

[jackg]

Signature Campaign Managers should take action.

We are going to, check SMAS.

About the spammers that just keep spamming posts or something. They should be more strict about it.

Being more strict only works if all campaigns participate.
Otherwise, you weed out the spammers from most campaigns only to see them being paid in the two or three campaigns that don't give a fuck about this forum.

About the spammers, I couldn't blame them because the threads become narrow due to many signature campaigns and posters who are already saying what they think. And they cannot post to the other threads because they don't have knowledge about that topic.

Then they shouldn't post at all.
If given the option between not posting and posting spam, one should always opt for the former.

These are some of the reasons why they spam in one thread. I admit these infos are not accurate and it is only based on my best of knowledge.

I doubt it. Most spam because they get paid for it. If they wouldn't get, they might not be spamming.
That might not be accurate either, It's based on the best of my knowledge.

Acutally, there is many threads that people can post on with their specific knowledges.
I enrolled in a signature campaign when I was a Jr Member and din't know much about Bitcoin (I had en eleaning about bitcoin fo rthe 3 months prior to joining the forum though)!
I found I was never stuck for finding a certain number of posts to post each week an, just by posing in the same way I had done before, I had many posts that I couldmake that were worthwile to the forum.
They should not opt for not posting at all though, they should learn abot the other threads and what they are discussing and ten get more information to discuss it better by searching for things and reading things from this forum and others about diferent parts of Bitcoin or other topics people  post about! If we ask for members to learn about stuff that is posted, then they will no longer spam as they will enoy making a worthwile contribution to the forum.

The problem with leaving signature campaign managers to dealinng with spamming is that you get stuck with sites that have automated systems such as YoBit.net!
They have an automated system and, while they do control some aspects of it, the do not formally have a manager of that campaign that scours the forum and searches for the spammers. They also have a dialy limit of 20 posts so the spammers are obviously going to choose them, that is where the restrictions fail unless you make something that is approved as a rule by Theymos or Badbear (or other staff members) then they could confirm that these are rules of the forum that should be followed by signature campaign owners.

[Relnarien]

Rather than disabling signatures in the Marketplace subforum, I believe a better way to curtail sig spam there would be to not increase the post count for any post made in all of its child forums. The Marketplace subforum is already rife with scammers, and padding their post count there just increases their chances of scamming even more. Besides, the forum is already providing a service to the members by yielding to them one whole subforum to perform their trades. Do they really deserve a bonus "+1" to their signature earnings from buying and/or selling something that they wouldn't have been able to otherwise?

[botany]

The issue with spam has improved over the last year, not gotten worse (the same can probably be said about the last two years as well). The gambling section is probably one of the worse in terms of useless threads/replies/ signature spam.

Campaigns which pay higher for posts in the gambling section, or have a requirement of minimum posts in the gambling section, are one cause of this.

[jackg]

The issue with spam has improved over the last year, not gotten worse (the same can probably be said about the last two years as well). The gambling section is probably one of the worse in terms of useless threads/replies/ signature spam.

Campaigns which pay higher for posts in the gambling section, or have a requirement of minimum posts in the gambling section, are one cause of this.

That's due to campaigns like Bitcoin.ag who want people to post 75% of posts in the gambling section.
It is the restriction of posting in certain boards such as off topic that leads to spamming of other threads.
If you spam in the off topic section, then it is contained in the other useless stuff that is quarenteened in that section.

In some ways, spam has stopped by restricting posting in the "off-topic" section, though it has eected the other boards in a negative way.

[KenR]

That's due to campaigns like Bitcoin.ag who want people to post 75% of posts in the gambling section.

If I'm not wrong,even the signature you're carrying right now pays bonus money for posting in the gambling section.Who doesn't love bonuses ?  Having said that,Fortunejack needs the members to spam the gambling section as well.I haven't seen anyone spamming the gambling section as bad as Fortunejack guys.Most of the users enrolled there are shills of each other to be precise.