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gaston909
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March 19, 2013, 08:56:46 AM
 #1

When will there be a realistic competitor here.

Having one DECENT exchange is bad for business, I thought normal currency markets took a big slice ..

Also, do you think there is any call for

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Bitcoinfly
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March 19, 2013, 02:51:08 PM
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When will there be a realistic competitor here.

Having one DECENT exchange is bad for business, I thought normal currency markets took a big slice ..


Yeah, that' s the question. After Mt.Gox transfering its business on US (overregulated) soil, there are quite good opportunities for some offshore (mean out of the western world economy) exchange. It' s hard to compete and start against the most liquid exchanger, but someone has to do it sooner or later. 

Trading BTC/USD? You need me... www.bitcoinpit.net
zeocrash
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March 19, 2013, 02:54:18 PM
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Also mtgox trading engine is balls.

I live in Bermuda, which is a wonderful tax haven and home to so many less regulated financial services. It would seem the obvious location for an exchange to be based. Unfortunately at the moment there is very little uptake of bitcoin over here. I'd happily help out starting an exchange in this country.
Gator-hex
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March 19, 2013, 02:58:25 PM
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Quote
there are quite good opportunities for some offshore (mean out of the western world economy) exchange

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand  Wink

adamluc
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March 19, 2013, 03:13:39 PM
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Definitely think there will be a need for a Mt. Gox given the culture and mentality of bitcoin users. It will need to operate in a place that is well known for privacy, such as Singapore, the Cayman Islands, or Bermuda.
zeocrash
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March 19, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
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Like i said, I'm a Bermuda resident, and a software developer. I'd be very interested in working on a Bermuda based exchange,.
jinni
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March 19, 2013, 03:32:30 PM
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When will there be a realistic competitor here.

Having one DECENT exchange is bad for business, I thought normal currency markets took a big slice ..


Yeah, that' s the question. After Mt.Gox transfering its business on US (overregulated) soil, there are quite good opportunities for some offshore (mean out of the western world economy) exchange. It' s hard to compete and start against the most liquid exchanger, but someone has to do it sooner or later. 

True, transferring business to overregulated soil could present dramatic of opportunity for competitors. Yet it could present a dramatic opportunity for Mt. Gox and Bitcoin also. Remember that most of the worlds currency is held in dollars. Once any American can transfer $ to BTC in something like a day or two with minimal fees, then this thing truly will take off, then collapse again, then take off again etc. After it has taken off in the US, other parts of the world will start to take notice and a true competitor will emerge like how London/Singapore/Hong Kong/Tokyo/Shanghai emerged as financial hubs after New York showed the way...

I'm thinking, a place like Singapore or Hong Kong could adopt BTC faster than most other places. Simply due to small concentrated population and a tendency towards little or no taxation. Additionally Asians love gambling, which will make the attraction of BTC even greater as we will surely see huge fluctuations in BTC until $100k+/BTC.
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March 19, 2013, 04:15:12 PM
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After it has taken off in the US, other parts of the world will start to take notice and a true competitor will emerge like how London/Singapore/Hong Kong/Tokyo/Shanghai emerged as financial hubs after New York showed the way...
I predict the opposite to happen (worldwide adoption well before it's a household name in the US.)  People in the US have an irrational faith in their fiat currency, while the rest of the world (Argentina, and pretty much everyone using the Euro, especially Cyprus) know a LOT more about how currency really works.  (And what happens when it doesn't.)

adamluc
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March 19, 2013, 04:16:35 PM
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agreed, people in the US are really do think about currencies, think adoption in the US will be slow relative to the main population.
jinni
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March 19, 2013, 10:14:28 PM
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After it has taken off in the US, other parts of the world will start to take notice and a true competitor will emerge like how London/Singapore/Hong Kong/Tokyo/Shanghai emerged as financial hubs after New York showed the way...
I predict the opposite to happen (worldwide adoption well before it's a household name in the US.)  People in the US have an irrational faith in their fiat currency, while the rest of the world (Argentina, and pretty much everyone using the Euro, especially Cyprus) know a LOT more about how currency really works.  (And what happens when it doesn't.)
Good point.

Yet the US has a tradition for showing an amazing adaptability. It also has the largest integrated culture for a single currency, in terms of purchasing power (which is part of the reason why so many huge business go from nothing to everything...once you crack the code in one place you just scale up and the entire country is for the taking...a 5% market penetration in Greece or Argentina doesn't have to mean anything, but a 5% market penetration in the US means everything). Finally Americans are known to be business savvy whereas Greeks for example are known to be more or less happy with their lot (I think Greeks would prefer a good amount of wine and some nice food over being early adopters any day (meaning they prefer to take it easy and enjoy life if and when they can)).
jinni
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March 19, 2013, 10:29:15 PM
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After it has taken off in the US, other parts of the world will start to take notice and a true competitor will emerge like how London/Singapore/Hong Kong/Tokyo/Shanghai emerged as financial hubs after New York showed the way...
I predict the opposite to happen (worldwide adoption well before it's a household name in the US.)  People in the US have an irrational faith in their fiat currency, while the rest of the world (Argentina, and pretty much everyone using the Euro, especially Cyprus) know a LOT more about how currency really works.  (And what happens when it doesn't.)

Oh and that part about pretty much everyone using the Euro knowing a LOT more is completely false. People using the Euro are mostly expecting a hard currency in the spirit of the Deutsche Mark. Yes the discussion about the Euro faltering is more developed in some places in Europe, but mostly in Eurosceptic Britain, and there mostly out of spite. Even the keenest sceptics of the Euro within the Eurozone think that reverting back to a national fiat currency will solve their problems.
Tvan
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March 19, 2013, 10:52:36 PM
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I don´t think the U.S. has a lot of money.  Now if you could tie it to credit......  Sorry, just trolling for post number 5. Grin
jinni
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March 19, 2013, 10:57:36 PM
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I don´t think the U.S. has a lot of money.  Now if you could tie it to credit......  Sorry, just trolling for post number 5. Grin

Bastard, I thought you were going to continue the argument...I'm way past five now, but now I just want to debate  Grin
kevin143
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March 19, 2013, 11:31:24 PM
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I think www.campbx.com is realistic enough
jinni
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March 20, 2013, 12:13:29 AM
 #15

I think www.campbx.com is realistic enough


Haha. How is campbx's $1.55 going to match mt.gox's $1.1 for the same $1k? Besides mt.gox accepts most currencies now.

I would still choose volume over tiny fee difference anytime. It is a matter of trust and reliability.
ReAzem
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March 20, 2013, 12:46:56 AM
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I think www.campbx.com is realistic enough


Haha. How is campbx's $1.55 going to match mt.gox's $1.1 for the same $1k? Besides mt.gox accepts most currencies now.

I would still choose volume over tiny fee difference anytime. It is a matter of trust and reliability.

Trust and reliability comes with developement. Just wait.
Minor Miner
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March 20, 2013, 01:06:41 AM
 #17

Can someone tell me what all this means to US citizens?   Will Mt Gox report all your transactions to the IRS?

jinni
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March 20, 2013, 01:50:58 AM
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Can someone tell me what all this means to US citizens?   Will Mt Gox report all your transactions to the IRS?


Who knows? What does it matter? I sent all my BTC to a blockchainwallet and used the "send anonymously" function to lots of other e-wallets and lost it all on satoshidice...all a part of my business strategy...but it didn't work as planned as I lost. Sorry IRS, I'm broke.
unknown45682
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March 20, 2013, 02:05:26 AM
 #19

Gox is becoming more like PayPal with the ID they require. We need a more fair, anonymous competitor that can give better quality (server that doesn't lag so much) and cheaper fees.
Nagato
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March 20, 2013, 10:50:33 AM
 #20

I'm thinking, a place like Singapore or Hong Kong could adopt BTC faster than most other places. Simply due to small concentrated population and a tendency towards little or no taxation. Additionally Asians love gambling, which will make the attraction of BTC even greater as we will surely see huge fluctuations in BTC until $100k+/BTC.

Just because income tax is low, it does not mean the goverment does not tax.

Besides the usual tricks of the trade like Inflation, with CPI ~6% with real inflation 15%-20% p.a. since 2009, and Forced Pension Fund(~35% of your income paying negative real interest rates). Singapore is unique in taxation that the government monopolises necessities and creates artificial scarcity to enjoy profit margins of 1000%. In short there is a huge spending tax.
Namely,
GST 7%
Million dollar flats (~cost 40k to build, sold at 400k - 1mil based on size)(99yr lease, not owned)
~125k tax to own a car(excludes cost of car)
~$5-$10 a day toll charges for driving(ERP)
Public Utilities/Telcos all owned by Government-linked organisations (Our electricity costs about 3X of US, we have one of the worse 3G speeds in the world due to telco cartel http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/10/uk-singtel-wireless-idUSLNE84901J20120510)
Extreme overcrowding to increase tax revenues and drive up house prices/depress wages

If you add all of these up, Singapore is probably the most taxed nation on earth. But your average sheeple would never figure it out. And this is how you run a budget surplus year after year with trillion dollar reserves(estimated) while projecting a low tax-heaven image while paying your ministers million dollar salaries! US congress is made up of amateurs compared to our Government.

We do have alot of advantages over other countries, but its not cheap as people perceive.

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