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Author Topic: Cypriot bank deposits hit in €10bn bailout  (Read 19889 times)
caveden
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March 19, 2013, 06:34:49 PM
 #161

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Cypriot MPs flatly reject bank deposit levy with 36 against, 19 abstentions and not a single vote in favour

tl;dr Cypriots to EU: "Fuck You!"

That's it? The parliament voted 'No'?

What now? They'll let the banks break? Force taxpayers to save them? What?

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BitcoinAshley
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March 19, 2013, 06:37:19 PM
 #162

Holy shit, you know your statist intervention is a bad idea when Paul Krugman thinks it's a bad idea.   I try to stay out of politics, but couldn't resist looking up PK's blog to see (what I anticipated to be) his verbose and circular defence of this action, how it was perfectly reasonable when seen in the proper light and possibly something the US should be considering.   I stand corrected!


Good God! Even statist of statists, Mr. ObamaCoin opposes the haircut? Day-umn, Europe is in for some hard times.

Of course, the bitcoin protocol (tx capacity, etc.) as it is right now couldn't possibly support a European rush on Bitcoin. Let's just hope bitcoin doesn't catch on too quick there or else we'll catch the devs with their pants down.

So, don't tell your cypriot friends about Bitcoin! Unless you want 15-hour confirmation times and then the alt-coins will start circling like vultures (although protocol-wise they're probably just as bad for scale.)
caveden
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March 19, 2013, 06:50:04 PM
 #163

There are some positive aspects on this Cypriot story.

The EU has basically sent a message to other members in difficulties: "We will not save you. You'll have to find your own way out of your mess."

I just read a couple of very interesting articles on this debacle:


I'm really curious as to what the Cypriot government will do now.

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BTC Books
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March 19, 2013, 08:25:33 PM
 #164

There are some positive aspects on this Cypriot story.

The EU has basically sent a message to other members in difficulties: "We will not save you. You'll have to find your own way out of your mess."

I just read a couple of very interesting articles on this debacle:


I'm really curious as to what the Cypriot government will do now.

Hopefully they'll follow Iceland's lead.

Except they're less tied-in to being nicey-nicey than those places (like Iceland) with closer cultural ties to the EU, and all that politically correct bullshit.

Maybe some bankers will swing this time.

Dankedan: price seems low, time to sell I think...
potato5491
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March 19, 2013, 09:51:20 PM
 #165

That's it? The parliament voted 'No'?

What now? They'll let the banks break? Force taxpayers to save them? What?

Clearly the MPs are only stalling for time. Time they will use wisely to move their money into Bitcoin.  Grin
marcus_of_augustus
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March 20, 2013, 12:51:32 AM
 #166

Bank holiday extended to March 26 ... Cypriots vs. EUdiots

Vladimir
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March 20, 2013, 02:46:01 AM
 #167

people to banksters:


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cypherdoc
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March 20, 2013, 04:59:42 AM
 #168

Bank holiday extended to March 26 ... Cypriots vs. EUdiots

you gotta be kidding me?  that's criminal keeping ppl from their money like that.  i'm sure these ppl have bills to pay?
BTC Books
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March 20, 2013, 05:07:43 AM
 #169

Bank holiday extended to March 26 ... Cypriots vs. EUdiots

you gotta be kidding me?  that's criminal keeping ppl from their money like that.  i'm sure these ppl have bills to pay?

But it's apparently worse, keeping the bankers from what they want to be their money.

Sounds like a week's worth of serious - very serious - arm-twisting by the bankers.  I wonder if the Cypriots can withstand the pressure that will be brought to bear.  I lean towards no - unless the Russians decide it's worth a stand.

Dankedan: price seems low, time to sell I think...
caveden
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March 20, 2013, 07:39:20 AM
 #170

people to banksters:



Although I understand the feeling, this is naive.

These banks are broken. It's inevitable, somebody is going to lose money. Either it will be every euro-user via inflation (the worst solution), either will be taxpayersvictims (also awful), or it will be the bank's clients. This last solution is, after all, the least unfair, as long as the current shareholders of these banks lose everything, and shares are given for those clients who suffered a cut.

Of course, bondholders and other riskier-investors should suffer cuts before checking account holders, but apparently these banks have very few bondholders, so the haircut on the accounts is inevitable - unless you replace it by something even worse.

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Vladimir
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March 20, 2013, 07:41:00 AM
 #171

Actually you do not get it. It is all about sovereignty or lack of thereof.


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caveden
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March 20, 2013, 07:54:04 AM
 #172

Actually you do not get it. It is all about sovereignty or lack of thereof.

But that's not the issue here. Okay, want to be sovereign and independent of EU? Great. Declare independence. That might solve some problems, but not this particular problem of these major banks which are bankrupt.

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Vladimir
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March 20, 2013, 07:57:49 AM
 #173

The proposed bail-in would not solve anything either. Even if EU provided the full loan and not a single depositor lost a penny directly it would still not solve the problem. It would just kick the can a year down the road. They simply solving problem of debt by more debt, nothing less, nothing more.

Ultimately, the problem is in the fact that all new money are always being created on the credit side of balance sheets of private owners of central banks and on debit side of balance sheets of everyone else, including the governments.  Whichever way money move after that cannot change the fact that private owners of the central banks are swindling the rest of the population.

The problem is also in the fact that wast majority of the victims are non the wiser and unable to comprehend trivially simple concepts that are hidden behind of all the smoke and mirrors.

It is pretty much an equivalent of everyone forced to bet all their money and all their annual income every year in a casino where the house has 3-10% edge.

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caveden
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March 20, 2013, 08:07:19 AM
 #174

The proposed bail-in would not solve anything either. Even if EU provided the full loan and not a single depositor lost a penny directly it would still not solve the problem.

That would be a worse solution. The EU-taxvictims have nothing to do with this mess. It's less worse to make the bank clients' lose, than to force random people that have nothing to do with it to pay.

The EU shouldn't lend anything. The bank shareholders should lose all their ownership. Cuts should be made, starting by risky-investment-clients like bondholders, and then eventually account holders. The new ownership should be transferred to those who suffered such cuts in proportion to the amount they lost.
I don't know any better way to deal with a bank failure. Forcing taxvictims to pay is definitely worse. Inflating the money supply to save banks is even worse.

The problem is also in the fact that wast majority of the victims are non the wiser and unable to comprehend trivially simple concepts that are hidden behind of all the smoke and mirrors.

Yes, people have been tricked into believing that their bank deposits are "guaranteed". That's just impossible, nothing in life is guaranteed, starting by life itself. But if after all these turmoil in the euro-zone you still believe your bank deposits are "guaranteed", I can only be sorry for you.

It is pretty much an equivalent of everyone forced to bet all their money and all their annual income every year in a casino where the house has 3-10% edge.

hehe, sort of. You're not really forced to have a bank account, but it's hard to live without one. And all banks practice fractional reserves, protected by the central bank, so your analogy has some good ground. Smiley

But hey, that's part of what Bitcoin is here to solve, isn't it?

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March 20, 2013, 01:23:09 PM
 #175

ALL banks are still closed there.  Can you imagine?  Going on four days with no end in sight.  They are now in a catch-22, if they open the banks without taking the money, everyone goes in and takes money out leaving banks insolvent well before everyone gets their money.  Not that it is a good idea, but now the only choice is to take that 10% out of the deposits as 100% of 0 is still 0.


Herodes
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March 20, 2013, 01:40:39 PM
 #176

ALL banks are still closed there.  Can you imagine?  Going on four days with no end in sight.  They are now in a catch-22, if they open the banks without taking the money, everyone goes in and takes money out leaving banks insolvent well before everyone gets their money.  Not that it is a good idea, but now the only choice is to take that 10% out of the deposits as 100% of 0 is still 0.

Uh - what about those who don't keep cash around, how do they get money for the stuff they need to have ? I mean, not everybody has even food for 4 days in their house..
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March 20, 2013, 01:48:59 PM
 #177

Credit cards are still working.

Yes, the average Cypriot is welcome to generate more debt but cannot know their checking balance Smiley
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March 20, 2013, 02:30:04 PM
 #178

ALL banks are still closed there.  Can you imagine?  Going on four days with no end in sight.  They are now in a catch-22, if they open the banks without taking the money, everyone goes in and takes money out leaving banks insolvent well before everyone gets their money.  Not that it is a good idea, but now the only choice is to take that 10% out of the deposits as 100% of 0 is still 0.

Uh - what about those who don't keep cash around, how do they get money for the stuff they need to have ? I mean, not everybody has even food for 4 days in their house..

This is why it is called a crisis.

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