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Author Topic: UK Banks - HMRC have the power to empty your account  (Read 1178 times)
miztaziggy
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March 20, 2014, 01:40:09 PM
 #1

Interesting article. UK government now no longer need a warrant or to win a court case to empty our bank accounts, they can do it and leave anyone with as little as £5,000.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100012871/did-you-spot-this-budget-gives-hmrc-power-to-raid-your-bank-account-like-wonga/


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March 20, 2014, 02:00:12 PM
 #2

Hm you just need to make sure you own the private key to your account, because if you don't control the private key you don't own ...

UH, ONE MOMENT.

HOLD ON ...

SHIT.

BITCOIN USERS NOT AFFECTED  Cheesy

Truth is the new hatespeech.
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March 20, 2014, 02:04:51 PM
 #3

fuckers

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March 20, 2014, 02:05:45 PM
 #4

Good I don't own account in UK

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March 20, 2014, 02:42:16 PM
 #5

Hm you just need to make sure you own the private key to your account, because if you don't control the private key you don't own ...

UH, ONE MOMENT.

HOLD ON ...

SHIT.

BITCOIN USERS NOT AFFECTED  Cheesy

Anyone knowing the private key can come and empty your "wallet". And that's perfectly legal.

I think you mean Bitcoin users are VERY affected.
Meuh6879
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March 20, 2014, 02:44:17 PM
 #6

in Europe (UK is not in europe law) ... they can ALREADY keep money from 8% of a account BELOW 100 000 Euros to "save" a bankrupt bank.

it's a European law vote in dec. 2013.

---

That's why i migrate this year, all my money to BTC ... big crash bank happen every 15 years now (divide per 2 now).
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March 20, 2014, 02:46:02 PM
 #7

Hm you just need to make sure you own the private key to your account, because if you don't control the private key you don't own ...

UH, ONE MOMENT.

HOLD ON ...

SHIT.

BITCOIN USERS NOT AFFECTED  Cheesy

Theoretically it could.

The article mentions this would be done to people who have outstanding tax liabilities.  Could be as simple as:
1. The British equivalent of the IRS detects you've received cash from a BTC exchange.
2. They see that you didn't disclose any BTC gains in your taxable income.
3. They assume you got them with no cost and take a chunk of your cash from your bank account to cover their estimate of your investment gains.
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March 20, 2014, 02:47:17 PM
 #8

Excellent, force more users to switch to things like Bitcoin for their currency, mwhwhahahahahHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!
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March 20, 2014, 02:50:07 PM
 #9


Theoretically it could.

The article mentions this would be done to people who have outstanding tax liabilities.  Could be as simple as:
1. The British equivalent of the IRS detects you've received cash from a BTC exchange.
2. They see that you didn't disclose any BTC gains in your taxable income.
3. They assume you got them with no cost and take a chunk of your cash from your bank account to cover their estimate of your investment gains.

You are describing sterling users.

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March 20, 2014, 03:08:59 PM
 #10

All governments can declare a state of emergency or sanctions or whatever reasons they dream up and confiscate your account. Nothing new here.

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March 20, 2014, 03:23:34 PM
 #11

Hm you just need to make sure you own the private key to your account, because if you don't control the private key you don't own ...

UH, ONE MOMENT.

HOLD ON ...

SHIT.

BITCOIN USERS NOT AFFECTED  Cheesy
This. No, Bitcoin isn't better, at all.  Roll Eyes

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Beliathon
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March 20, 2014, 03:57:07 PM
 #12

Hm you just need to make sure you own the private key to your account, because if you don't control the private key you don't own ...

UH, ONE MOMENT.

HOLD ON ...

SHIT.

BITCOIN USERS NOT AFFECTED  Cheesy

Anyone knowing the private key can come and empty your "wallet". And that's perfectly legal.

I think you mean Bitcoin users are VERY affected.
Sorry, let me clarify:

Stupid, inept Bitcoin users VERY affected.

Smart, competent Bitcoin users NOT affected AT ALL.

Tell me, oh wise one, if I store my BTC in a brain wallet, how will my government steal it from me?

How about if I store it in a paper wallet that I've buried in the ground somewhere?

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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March 20, 2014, 04:19:52 PM
 #13

I'm a UK based anarchist and tax resister. This new power effectively means I keep no more than £5k in fiat at any one time. Aside from the start of the month when bills go out, I usually keep my fiat under £3k anyway, but this is still important to bear in mind.

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miztaziggy
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March 20, 2014, 04:25:18 PM
 #14

I'm a UK based anarchist and tax resister. This new power effectively means I keep no more than £5k in fiat at any one time. Aside from the start of the month when bills go out, I usually keep my fiat under £3k anyway, but this is still important to bear in mind.

Yeah you're fine, how about small businesses?

Imagine a small business with £10k a month in salaries. They receive an incorrect tax bill that's disputed so don't pay.

HMRC proceed to wipe out their bank account and leave them with £5k.

Salaries don't get paid.

Worker's mortgages don't get paid.

Depending on how long it takes to claim the money back, company can't pay for materials to fulfill orders.

Company goes bust.

Everyone loses.

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March 20, 2014, 05:05:52 PM
 #15

I'm a UK based anarchist and tax resister. This new power effectively means I keep no more than £5k in fiat at any one time. Aside from the start of the month when bills go out, I usually keep my fiat under £3k anyway, but this is still important to bear in mind.

*high fives fellow Anarchist*

I actually think that's probably going to be how I'm going to handle it if I ever get enough money to worry about, the only problem is buying a house, but I suppose you could afford to do a one time thing if you really wanted to own one.
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March 20, 2014, 08:04:36 PM
 #16

What I meant is that with bank accounts you never ever own the private key; the bank does. Withdrawing to your own wallet will not work with large amounts either; the bank will not give it to you and you can't store it securely too.

So you can never truly own fiat

Do I need to use a <sarcasm> tag in the future or what  Roll Eyes

Truth is the new hatespeech.
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March 20, 2014, 08:17:17 PM
 #17

Interesting article. UK government now no longer need a warrant or to win a court case to empty our bank accounts, they can do it and leave anyone with as little as £5,000.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100012871/did-you-spot-this-budget-gives-hmrc-power-to-raid-your-bank-account-like-wonga/



1. HMRC can only touch FIAT bank accounts
2. to throw it on its head, if you only have under £5k in fiat.. sounds to me like they cant take your money.. hmmm tax free lifestyle if you only keep under £5k in a bank account.. Cheesy ill keep my funds in bitcoin and only withdraw to fiat to top bank account back up to £4999.98

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March 20, 2014, 10:07:03 PM
 #18

Interesting article. UK government now no longer need a warrant or to win a court case to empty our bank accounts, they can do it and leave anyone with as little as £5,000.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100012871/did-you-spot-this-budget-gives-hmrc-power-to-raid-your-bank-account-like-wonga/



1. HMRC can only touch FIAT bank accounts
2. to throw it on its head, if you only have under £5k in fiat.. sounds to me like they cant take your money.. hmmm tax free lifestyle if you only keep under £5k in a bank account.. Cheesy ill keep my funds in bitcoin and only withdraw to fiat to top bank account back up to £4999.98


If you have less than £5k in fiat IOUs at the bank they can still confiscate those IOUs for taxes owed but they first have to go to the trouble of presenting their evidence to a court.
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