[POLL] Should Butterfly Labs (BFL) get a Scammer tag?

[Flying Hellfish]

Read the conversation between Inaba and Garr255:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236794.80

In order for me to keep my pre-orders Josh is making me do the following:

I Found this one pretty wild too!

Wonder if some of the fellows around here might like as a signature LOL!!

Everyone here is monumental assholes

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[pixel]

I thought they started shipping? :3

[smoothie]

Shipping a little tiny batch of orders is not..."shipping".

1 year and finally they are sending a few units out...lol what a joke.

[Cablez]

Two more days to 1 year waiting. 

[becoin]

Two more days to 1 year waiting. 

It is too late to ask for a refund, yeah?

[bitbryan]

https://eclipsemc.com/graphs/historical_rate.php

WOW! totally cool link thank you very clear. and daymn 30 days and the hash has doubled!

[bitbryan]

I don't see why they should get a scammer tag. They haven't scammed anyone yet, are offering refunds, and as far as I've seen they're starting to be delivered. I have faith that they'll deliver soon.

I agree Lets all get together and make a huge group buy and buy as many units as possible so we can get preferred treatment and jump the line. We can all meet at a convention and video tape a group video of us running our units giving BFL a great media exposure. That alone will get our units quicker.

Just imagine the love and peace we can bring to the world as we show that BFL is good and loves everyone.

Oh my gosh I'm think I'm gonna cry.

they dont care! there is no prefered treatment. they wont even budge on the phone, so i know that they dont bother with dealing with people they have no social connections to the outside!

[MooC Tals]

I don't see why they should get a scammer tag. They haven't scammed anyone yet, are offering refunds, and as far as I've seen they're starting to be delivered. I have faith that they'll deliver soon.

I agree Lets all get together and make a huge group buy and buy as many units as possible so we can get preferred treatment and jump the line. We can all meet at a convention and video tape a group video of us running our units giving BFL a great media exposure. That alone will get our units quicker.

Just imagine the love and peace we can bring to the world as we show that BFL is good and loves everyone.

Oh my gosh I'm think I'm gonna cry.

they dont care! there is no prefered treatment. they wont even budge on the phone, so i know that they dont bother with dealing with people they have no social connections to the outside!

 For the record, I was being sarcastic.

[Cheeseheaven]

Just because they charge more they shouldn't really be tagged a scammer in my opinion if people are just really talking about prices

[deadweasel]

Just because they charge more they shouldn't really be tagged a scammer in my opinion if people are just really talking about prices

I would like to see a progress bar for their orders fulfilled versus orders placed.  Also, a ticker showing each order leaving the facility.

[philips]

Product: Not a scam
BFL: Crooked business, NOT A SCAM.
BFL's way of gaining money? Totally a fucking scam.
"pre-order now, products are in the final stages of development, SHIPPING NEXT MONTH!" For seven months in a row of them updating and changing the banner to be accuarate, Prooving that it was not "left up there" and that it was constantly being "re-put-up" with next months month added on.
Blatent, Fucking, Scamming. BFL was practically scamming people into being investors with No Return, and No Say.
If they didnt state "shipping next month" Im pretty damn sure that they would not have conned enough funds out of people to build thier dream creation business.

What the scam is, Is the way the took our money under False Advertising. Thats illegal. Thats a Con.

One of those bad days huh?

[MooC Tals]

Product: Not a scam
BFL: Crooked business, NOT A SCAM.
BFL's way of gaining money? Totally a fucking scam.
"pre-order now, products are in the final stages of development, SHIPPING NEXT MONTH!" For seven months in a row of them updating and changing the banner to be accuarate, Prooving that it was not "left up there" and that it was constantly being "re-put-up" with next months month added on.
Blatent, Fucking, Scamming. BFL was practically scamming people into being investors with No Return, and No Say.
If they didnt state "shipping next month" Im pretty damn sure that they would not have conned enough funds out of people to build thier dream creation business.

What the scam is, Is the way the took our money under False Advertising. Thats illegal. Thats a Con.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114329.msg2139947#msg2139947
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=147870.msg1580846#msg1580846
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.msg1622626#msg1622626
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg1625531#msg1625531

There is more but that should support any doubt in character for Josh and the BFL company.

[Fiyasko]

One of those bad days huh?

I-uhh, *gives up* Yeah... one of those days...

[player3]

They aren't quite scamming, as they are shipping miners out. You know, just several months behind schedule. I'm guessing they're having trouble with manufacturing, particularly in getting long-running, consistent production going. I FINALLY received mine a few weeks ago, and it does work well. I think they need new marketing people and perhaps an ethics consultant.

[bitbryan]

 pre-order NOW! cuz its only a 24month wait list that is not published!

[greenbtc]

BFL is definitely a scam, they are now refusing refunds (they refuse to give me a refund on the basis they are "shipping") even though they are not shipping, quoted me a 2 month shipping window, and it is now outside that 2 month window. I already gave the majority of my funds to KnC, but I doubt if I hold onto this BFL order I will see it before 2014...thus I do not want it...and would like a refund, but that was refused.

They have some horrible customer service, that is for sure. I've sent several emails after they refused my refund, and all have gone unanswered so far.

[OmegaNemesis28]

Yes.
They spit on this community and others.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248365.0

[EBM]

(posted this on that other thread, but it's 108 pages long and I figured you guys should hear this too.)


Okay folks, you might not like this but...

I no longer think they're scammers. Hear me out, if you will - and please check my other posts too. I thought the absolute worst and said so, loudly. No sock puppet here.

So what happened to change my mind? The BC London conference.

Chatted with lots of big-time BTC people, as you'd expect. BFL was mentioned quite a bit, but in more sympathetic tones than angry - which amazed me. Did these people not know what BFL had been doing?

Then I realised Josh was actually there - which amazed me too. So I went over to collar him, for what I presumed would be a righteous bollocking, and ended up speaking with him for a long time.

Told him we were a pissed-off-no-longer-in-the-queue ex-customer, etc. Heard what he had to say, watched how he said it too. FWIW, my conclusion is that he - and they -  are legit and they will deliver, even though it's crazy late and below original specs.

Cock-up, not conspiracy - but not helped by an unpro attitude to customer service with these ongoing slanging matches. Even a young company should always rise above conflict and remain polite, no matter what. (Military mindset, I believe.)

Remember how Yifu Guo spoke about how it doesn't matter how much money you have; to get chips done in China, it's who you know? BFL found that out the hard way - and so did its customers.

BTC, ASICs, all of this is new territory. Look at Gox's teething problems (and I'm NOT defending them, just pointing out that BFL is not alone in making mistakes in this space).

I'll leave you with a thought; my first 'PC' was a Sinclair ZX81. They were pre-sold via adverts, and only then were they actually made and shipped. The delays were incredible and the failure rate ridiculous. But it was the world's first <£100 computer, a totally new concept, so people cut Sinclair a lot of slack.

You don't have to do the same for BFL. You can be pissed off with good reason. But I've seen the whites of his eyes, and I believe Josh is not a scammer. He's just over-promised and over-reached - which would not be the first time in the world of tech startups. Hell, I did it myself with mine.

And as I'm kinda vouching for him here, I won't hide behind anonymity - although I'd like to keep private. Anyone wants to know who I am, just DM me.

[MooC Tals]

(posted this on that other thread, but it's 108 pages long and I figured you guys should hear this too.)


Okay folks, you might not like this but...

I no longer think they're scammers. Hear me out, if you will - and please check my other posts too. I thought the absolute worst and said so, loudly. No sock puppet here.

So what happened to change my mind? The BC London conference.

Chatted with lots of big-time BTC people, as you'd expect. BFL was mentioned quite a bit, but in more sympathetic tones than angry - which amazed me. Did these people not know what BFL had been doing?

Then I realised Josh was actually there - which amazed me too. So I went over to collar him, for what I presumed would be a righteous bollocking, and ended up speaking with him for a long time.

Told him we were a pissed-off-no-longer-in-the-queue ex-customer, etc. Heard what he had to say, watched how he said it too. FWIW, my conclusion is that he - and they -  are legit and they will deliver, even though it's crazy late and below original specs.

Cock-up, not conspiracy - but not helped by an unpro attitude to customer service with these ongoing slanging matches. Even a young company should always rise above conflict and remain polite, no matter what. (Military mindset, I believe.)

Remember how Yifu Guo spoke about how it doesn't matter how much money you have; to get chips done in China, it's who you know? BFL found that out the hard way - and so did its customers.

BTC, ASICs, all of this is new territory. Look at Gox's teething problems (and I'm NOT defending them, just pointing out that BFL is not alone in making mistakes in this space).

I'll leave you with a thought; my first 'PC' was a Sinclair ZX81. They were pre-sold via adverts, and only then were they actually made and shipped. The delays were incredible and the failure rate ridiculous. But it was the world's first <£100 computer, a totally new concept, so people cut Sinclair a lot of slack.

You don't have to do the same for BFL. You can be pissed off with good reason. But I've seen the whites of his eyes, and I believe Josh is not a scammer. He's just over-promised and over-reached - which would not be the first time in the world of tech startups. Hell, I did it myself with mine.

And as I'm kinda vouching for him here, I won't hide behind anonymity - although I'd like to keep private. Anyone wants to know who I am, just DM me.

Anyone else getting to the point where they no longer care? I pretty much left the whole bitcoin scene now. Oh well I see you posted the same post in an other thread and all I can say is Josh is a liar. Simple and true.

You spoke with a liar!!! Nothing left to say.

[becoin]

But I've seen the whites of his eyes, and I believe Josh is not a scammer.

What we believe in is not important. What is important is what facts do we have at hand. The facts we have so far unquestionably prove that BFL is a scam. It was projected to be a scam one year ago. Now they're refusing refunds. It's high time they get a scammer tag on this forum! If not, then this forum is a part of the BFL scam. It is very simple indeed.