Social security is the govs way of saying you are too stupid to save your own $$

[Mike Christ]

The whole idea of social security appalls me. The idea that they take some of our money to save it for us. And in reality they just go and dip into those funds to spend at will. It's stupid.

More like your posting is stupid. A lot of people don't save enough, it's hard to know what is enough. SS is not just retirement anyway, I received it until I turned 18. Hopefully it was the money that came out of your check.

So in other words, you receive it, ergo you are in favor of it.

That's great, but, if your only point is to say that he's stupid, I have bad news.  Mostly about pots, and kettles, and the color black.

[1713472644]

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[1713472644]

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[1713472644]

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[FirstAscent]

You're fucking stupid.

You are so ridiculously naive, it's pathetic.

I understand we aren't going to solve the on-going debate between collectivism and individualism in this thread, or push understanding of the difference between society and government.  However, it is enjoyable to debate the details and refine our understanding, until it resorts to this.

It resorts to that because that is what is displayed by the forum participant on the receiving end of those observations. How many libertarian dimwits does it take to argue against one person in opposition to libertarian views, anyway? Clearly, a lot, all apparently victims of groupthink, as well. Such independent thinkers you are - not.

[dotcom]

You're fucking stupid.

You are so ridiculously naive, it's pathetic.

I understand we aren't going to solve the on-going debate between collectivism and individualism in this thread, or push understanding of the difference between society and government.  However, it is enjoyable to debate the details and refine our understanding, until it resorts to this.

To sum it up, we have several fine thinkers in this thread.

And then this one...

Pretty much

I never understood people that spend more time insulting the person they are responding to than actually progressing the argument.

[FirstAscent]

You're fucking stupid.

You are so ridiculously naive, it's pathetic.

I understand we aren't going to solve the on-going debate between collectivism and individualism in this thread, or push understanding of the difference between society and government.  However, it is enjoyable to debate the details and refine our understanding, until it resorts to this.

To sum it up, we have several fine thinkers in this thread.

And then this one...

Pretty much

I never understood people that spend more time insulting the person they are responding to than actually progressing the argument.

Perhaps because the stupid person needs to be made aware of the stupidity of his claims and/or statements?

[archaeopteryx]

You're fucking stupid.

You are so ridiculously naive, it's pathetic.

I understand we aren't going to solve the on-going debate between collectivism and individualism in this thread, or push understanding of the difference between society and government.  However, it is enjoyable to debate the details and refine our understanding, until it resorts to this.

To sum it up, we have several fine thinkers in this thread.

And then this one...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m27z329S401qkp3qu.gif

Pretty much

I never understood people that spend more time insulting the person they are responding to than actually progressing the argument.

Perhaps because the stupid person needs to be made aware of the stupidity of his claims and/or statements?

If that's your goal you are doing a poor job. People don't respond well to emotional and personal attacks--it doesn't make them realize they hold stupid beliefs but usually only hardens their position. I know from experience because I used to believe some stupid things. It wasn't ad hominems that changed my mind, it was rational discussion and friendly discourse which prompted further research of my own.

[FirstAscent]

You're fucking stupid.

You are so ridiculously naive, it's pathetic.

I understand we aren't going to solve the on-going debate between collectivism and individualism in this thread, or push understanding of the difference between society and government.  However, it is enjoyable to debate the details and refine our understanding, until it resorts to this.

To sum it up, we have several fine thinkers in this thread.

And then this one...

Pretty much

I never understood people that spend more time insulting the person they are responding to than actually progressing the argument.

Perhaps because the stupid person needs to be made aware of the stupidity of his claims and/or statements?

If that's your goal you are doing a poor job. People don't respond well to emotional and personal attacks--it doesn't make them realize they hold stupid beliefs but usually only hardens their position. I know from experience because I used to believe some stupid things. It wasn't ad hominems that changed my mind, it was rational discussion and friendly discourse which prompted further research of my own.

Are you aware of the history between myrkul and I? Probably not. Don't make our fight yours.

[myrkul]

Are you aware of the history between myrkul and I? Probably not. Don't make our fight yours.

And have your insults ever done more than display your inability to discuss rationally the topics in which you are emotionally invested?

No, I think not.

[FirstAscent]

Are you aware of the history between myrkul and I? Probably not. Don't make our fight yours.

And have your insults ever done more than display your inability to discuss rationally the topics in which you are emotionally invested?

No, I think not.

Actually, my insults of you were and are a direct reflection of the absurdity and naivete of your views. You made a statement implying that being held financially liable for damages equates to actual compensation to victims. Change your tune, and I'll change my observations of you.

[kokojie]

Over half of America's budget goes into Social Security and Welfare.

To contrast, 2% is spent on education, another 2% on advances in medicine and science.  Anyone who finds this agreeable is the end result of a nation whose budget for education is 2%, while socialism, warfare and debt interest make up almost the entirety of the rest.

That's quite misleading, as federal government has very little role in funding education, and 2% is too high already, it should be zero. Education is funded by local property tax and state budget.

[myrkul]

Are you aware of the history between myrkul and I? Probably not. Don't make our fight yours.

And have your insults ever done more than display your inability to discuss rationally the topics in which you are emotionally invested?

No, I think not.

Actually, my insults of you were and are a direct reflection of the absurdity and naivete of your views. You made a statement implying that being held financially liable for damages equates to actual compensation to victims. Change your tune, and I'll change my observations of you.

Insults do not change minds. Rational discussion does. Prove my ideas wrong, and I will discard them. Insult me or them, and I will understand that you are incapable of doing more than flailing around on the ground like a child.

[FirstAscent]

Are you aware of the history between myrkul and I? Probably not. Don't make our fight yours.

And have your insults ever done more than display your inability to discuss rationally the topics in which you are emotionally invested?

No, I think not.

Actually, my insults of you were and are a direct reflection of the absurdity and naivete of your views. You made a statement implying that being held financially liable for damages equates to actual compensation to victims. Change your tune, and I'll change my observations of you.

Insults do not change minds. Rational discussion does. Prove my ideas wrong, and I will discard them. Insult me or them, and I will understand that you are incapable of doing more than flailing around on the ground like a child.

You deserve insulting simply by your demand that I prove your claim wrong. I don't need to prove your claim wrong, as that is work for me that I didn't sign up for.

Honest questions: Do you honestly get off insisting something that is obviously not true just because it fits your political belief? Do you actually believe the crap you say?

Simple fact: victims are not always compensated just because the courts say someone needs to pay them. And if they are compensated, it's rarely in a timely matter, nor in full.

[Mike Christ]

Over half of America's budget goes into Social Security and Welfare.

To contrast, 2% is spent on education, another 2% on advances in medicine and science.  Anyone who finds this agreeable is the end result of a nation whose budget for education is 2%, while socialism, warfare and debt interest make up almost the entirety of the rest.

That's quite misleading, as federal government has very little role in funding education, and 2% is too high already, it should be zero. Education is funded by local property tax and state budget.

Then I must research more about this subject I'm in the middle of a fed gov class but they don't teach you everything...

[yvv]

Social security is the govs way of saying you are too stupid to save your own $$

No doubt, the majority of humans on this Earth are indeed too stupid for such things.

[myrkul]

Are you aware of the history between myrkul and I? Probably not. Don't make our fight yours.

And have your insults ever done more than display your inability to discuss rationally the topics in which you are emotionally invested?

No, I think not.

Actually, my insults of you were and are a direct reflection of the absurdity and naivete of your views. You made a statement implying that being held financially liable for damages equates to actual compensation to victims. Change your tune, and I'll change my observations of you.

Insults do not change minds. Rational discussion does. Prove my ideas wrong, and I will discard them. Insult me or them, and I will understand that you are incapable of doing more than flailing around on the ground like a child.

You deserve insulting simply by your demand that I prove your claim wrong. I don't need to prove your claim wrong, as that is work for me that I didn't sign up for.

You seem to want me to change my mind. If that is your desire, You'll have to show me that I'm wrong. If you don't want to put out that effort, I suggest you just leave me be. That is, after all, all I desire, to be left alone.

Honest questions: Do you honestly get off insisting something that is obviously not true just because it fits your political belief? Do you actually believe the crap you say?

What is it that I have said that is "obviously not true"?

Simple fact: victims are not always compensated just because the courts say someone needs to pay them. And if they are compensated, it's rarely in a timely matter, nor in full.

True, which is what insurance is for.

Fun fact: 13% of Texas drivers have no insurance (this makes them criminals).
In Mississippi, 26% of drivers have no insurance (again, this makes them criminals).
In New Hampshire, 9% of drivers have no insurance. Unlike the other states, this does not make them criminals....

[Ekaros]

Social security is the govs way of saying you are too stupid to save your own $$

No doubt, the majority of humans on this Earth are indeed too stupid for such things.

Why should you save when you can rob other people, physically... And that is a valid solution model for individual in some ways. Not ethical, but still valid.

I think social security as price paid for stability and general safety.  Other option would be to kick out everyone who can't provide for themselves and are risk to others, but there is certain lack of places to place them and prisons can also be considered to be social security for prisoners, they aren't penal colonies were prisoners are set to make living for themselves...

I don't disagree with the current system not being very good.

On other hand I think that some system is needed. I'm probably a socialist, but I believe it's best for government to provide the minimum living standards for individuals. 

[myrkul]

On other hand I think that some system is needed. I'm probably a socialist, but I believe it's best for government to provide the minimum living standards for individuals.

That's all well and good, but those resources have to come from somewhere. The question is, are they collected voluntarily, or is it mandatory?

[archaeopteryx]

You're fucking stupid.

You are so ridiculously naive, it's pathetic.

I understand we aren't going to solve the on-going debate between collectivism and individualism in this thread, or push understanding of the difference between society and government.  However, it is enjoyable to debate the details and refine our understanding, until it resorts to this.

To sum it up, we have several fine thinkers in this thread.

And then this one...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m27z329S401qkp3qu.gif

Pretty much

I never understood people that spend more time insulting the person they are responding to than actually progressing the argument.

Perhaps because the stupid person needs to be made aware of the stupidity of his claims and/or statements?

If that's your goal you are doing a poor job. People don't respond well to emotional and personal attacks--it doesn't make them realize they hold stupid beliefs but usually only hardens their position. I know from experience because I used to believe some stupid things. It wasn't ad hominems that changed my mind, it was rational discussion and friendly discourse which prompted further research of my own.

Are you aware of the history between myrkul and I? Probably not. Don't make our fight yours.

You're right I probably am not. Did he leave you for another man? That's unfortunate, but doesn't change the validity of my points. If you're here to change someone's mind you are going about it the wrong way. If you're here simply to fling poo, well, that's your choice. It just seems a poor one to me.

[Ekaros]

On other hand I think that some system is needed. I'm probably a socialist, but I believe it's best for government to provide the minimum living standards for individuals.

That's all well and good, but those resources have to come from somewhere. The question is, are they collected voluntarily, or is it mandatory?

Mandatory. If you want to live in system, you play by common rules. On other hand no one should be stopped from moving to place not controlled by that system. Not that the system having control is a good thing either and without problems. Still it's only way to prevent some other problems. Whole thing is obviously very complicated and no good solutions have yet emerged.

The problem is that there isn't any place for libertarians and certain thinking people just now.

[myrkul]

On other hand I think that some system is needed. I'm probably a socialist, but I believe it's best for government to provide the minimum living standards for individuals.

That's all well and good, but those resources have to come from somewhere. The question is, are they collected voluntarily, or is it mandatory?

Mandatory. If you want to live in system, you play by common rules. On other hand no one should be stopped from moving to place not controlled by that system.

OK, and when all the people who don't want to pay for everyone else have left, and you're left with a population consisting mostly of people who can't (or simply decide not to) provide for themselves, what then?

Where do the resources come from to feed all those hungry people?

[Monster Tent]

The whole idea of social security appalls me. The idea that they take some of our money to save it for us. And in reality they just go and dip into those funds to spend at will. It's stupid.

Actually, it's not stupid. I'm sure there are some hundred million or so that are thankful that their parents receive a social security check.

"thanks govn't for giving me my money back and saving it for me" . Meanwhile the government hopes that you die before you get what you put into it back out.

The department of homeland security just ordered 450 million bullets. Perhaps its some elaborate plan to steal the 2 trillion dollars sitting in social security