Butterfly Labs ASIC Update?

[Sage]

Well, they don't seem too responsive asking them direct...

Anyone receive their rigs?

Is it worth placing an order now with Bitcoins, getting charged for them now, not receiving the rig for who knows how long, in the meantime the price of Bitcoin soars, and we miss out on both our Bitcoin holding profit, and/or any potential mining profit...

Or...

Wait until they ship.  Then order.  Then receive them late in the game.  Difficulty goes up, just when we get our hands on them.

Or...

Can we place an order now, and NOT be charged for it until the order actually ships out?  And if so is Paypal the only way to do that?

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[opentoe]

Well, they don't seem too responsive asking them direct...

Anyone receive their rigs?

Is it worth placing an order now with Bitcoins, getting charged for them now, not receiving the rig for who knows how long, in the meantime the price of Bitcoin soars, and we miss out on both our Bitcoin holding profit, and/or any potential mining profit...

Or...

Wait until they ship.  Then order.  Then receive them late in the game.  Difficulty goes up, just when we get our hands on them.

Or...

Can we place an order now, and NOT be charged for it until the order actually ships out?  And if so is Paypal the only way to do that?

BFL has taken the pre-order game to a whole new level. I've never seen so many people dump thousands of dollars into something that was just an idea that could so easily fail.  And here we are, months and months later at the same point as back then. I already got my refund back a little while ago and bought BTC right away. Since then it has risen to over 60 and I've made quite a bit of money already. I'm thinking of buying a couple Avalon's if I can and other things right now. If you order from BFL today you don't have to pay them anything, they just give you an order number...and if you don't pay you will lose your place in the queue if someone gets ahead of you. I'm far from being analytical or smart in the way the bitcoin economy works but in my opinion if you order from BFL now you will most likely have to wait maybe 6 months before receiving anything. By that time their first batch will have been out and delivered, Avalon's 2nd AND 3rd batch will be out hashing away too. So that $300/day money making machine is equal to a low powered video card at that time. Maybe you'll get $.50/day and that is being generous. Is it worth it? Not to make any money, but to fool around with it and do it strictly as a hobby.

[h4r13q1n]

The question arises why they'd need new preorders if they already have like 30.000 and not a single unit shipped.

and what is that supposed to mean:

"Products are shipped according to placement in the order queue, and delivery may take 2 months or more after order. All sales are final."

source https://products.butterflylabs.com/featured-products/60gh-bitcoin-miner.html

also, how do they want to produce 50.000 units or so (estimated, many orders are multiple units) in just 2 months?

[SgtSpike]

The question arises why they'd need new preorders if they already have like 30.000 and not a single unit shipped.

and what is that supposed to mean:

"Products are shipped according to placement in the order queue, and delivery may take 2 months or more after order. All sales are final."

source https://products.butterflylabs.com/featured-products/60gh-bitcoin-miner.html

also, how do they want to produce 50.000 units or so (estimated, many orders are multiple units) in just 2 months?

30,000 units is a large over-estimate, given that they've got 75 wafers @ 1,000 chips each and said that it would be way more than they need to fill current preorders.  30,000 CHIPS might be a reasonable estimate though (which would equate to around 4,000 single SCs).

They don't NEED preorders, either.  But why leave money on the table when you can spend a little on advertising to get more sales?

All sales are final = whatever you think it means.  They've been giving refunds to anyone who asks, but maybe that unspoken policy will change once they get the preorders caught up.  In other words, it could be a "once we ship, you can't ship it back to us for a refund" sort of policy.

[h4r13q1n]

30,000 units is a large over-estimate, given that they've got 75 wafers @ 1,000 chips each and said that it would be way more than they need to fill current preorders.  30,000 CHIPS might be a reasonable estimate though (which would equate to around 4,000 single SCs).

Their order numbers are around 30.000. I know they wouldn't have the chips to build that, afaik they even got only 6 wavers at their hand atm. maybe I missed something. so if they have 30.000 pre-orders without being able to process them with the current resources, it just seems fishy to accept more pre-orders.

of cause everyone who asked for a refund got it. You could imagine that all hell would break loose if they refused to refund. enough people call it a scam already.

[SgtSpike]

30,000 units is a large over-estimate, given that they've got 75 wafers @ 1,000 chips each and said that it would be way more than they need to fill current preorders.  30,000 CHIPS might be a reasonable estimate though (which would equate to around 4,000 single SCs).

Their order numbers are around 30.000. I know they wouldn't have the chips to build that, afaik they even got only 6 wavers at their hand atm. maybe I missed something. so if they have 30.000 pre-orders without being able to process them with the current resources, it just seems fishy to accept more pre-orders.

of cause everyone who asked for a refund got it. You could imagine that all hell would break loose if they refused to refund. enough people call it a scam already.

Their order numbers are false.  Every time you get to the bit-pay screen, it generates an order number, regardless of whether it has been paid for or not.  People can run up the number just for fun if they want.  Or, generate an invoice to see how much BTC they would have to pay.  Or, decide not to order at the last minute.  Etc, etc, etc.

[h4r13q1n]

Their order numbers are false.  Every time you get to the bit-pay screen, it generates an order number, regardless of whether it has been paid for or not.  People can run up the number just for fun if they want.  Or, generate an invoice to see how much BTC they would have to pay.  Or, decide not to order at the last minute.  Etc, etc, etc.

Hey, thanks for clearing that up for me.

[SgtSpike]

Their order numbers are false.  Every time you get to the bit-pay screen, it generates an order number, regardless of whether it has been paid for or not.  People can run up the number just for fun if they want.  Or, generate an invoice to see how much BTC they would have to pay.  Or, decide not to order at the last minute.  Etc, etc, etc.

Hey, thanks for clearing that up for me.

No problem. 

[Photon939]

+1 for the thread, it has all info I wanted to know except one - is it possible to readdress pre-order? As in "no refund but change pre-order owner"?

AFAIK BFL has said that they will NOT change the shipment address once the order is placed.

[cosmicone]

+1 for the thread, it has all info I wanted to know except one - is it possible to readdress pre-order? As in "no refund but change pre-order owner"?

AFAIK BFL has said that they will NOT change the shipment address once the order is placed.

What if you have moved?  It has been what... 7 months now since the pre-orders started?  Some people go away to school, come back and move around in that timeframe.

[tcp_rst]

The offical answer is "no".  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/54-selling-your-bitforce-products.html

But since then they've added an order management system.  https://products.butterflylabs.com/customer/account/login/  When I login it allows me to edit the shipping address.  Didn't try saving it though since I don't want to do that, but it looks possible.  You should note that many seem to have bad luck getting into this system.  I never have, but there's alot of chatter about problems.