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Author Topic: I hate socialism but..... shouldn't a nations resources be nationalized?  (Read 2518 times)
FirstAscent
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March 19, 2013, 06:03:15 PM
 #41

Why do people buy at market tops?
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March 19, 2013, 06:08:50 PM
 #42

Well again no, value of something has always been how someone is prepaird to pay. You can value your car to 50k $$$ but its worth how much is someone willing to pay. Also no, i'm richer on paper but in fact i lost 99billion and my country lost even also, while company and that country is getting richer. Also when you are occupied you cant say no, even if that occupation is not military. Thus you have Giffen goods such as Oil where price is rising and demand is rising also. And who has oil, well satellite states owned by USA.

If you consider that every time you sell something and someone is able to sell it for more that you lost something, you are calculating things wrong and in for a disappointing life. Why would anyone wish to purchase your labor if they were not able to profit off of it somehow?

We are not talking about selling something. If you have a problem to understand then well... Im talking about exploiting country rich in reasurces and without cash to start production by the country with large pockets. Who is talking about use of labor and making money that way. Large companies are only interested in making cash/money and thats the reason why are they moving entire facotries to a country that has low wages, we are talking about a company that wants to earn 10$ for every 1$ invested.  Profit is Ok, but profit made by exploting other countries is not. Thats the reason why globalization is bad. EU market is a prof of that. Small countries cant compete with big countries
FirstAscent
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March 19, 2013, 06:11:09 PM
 #43

Well again no, value of something has always been how someone is prepaird to pay. You can value your car to 50k $$$ but its worth how much is someone willing to pay. Also no, i'm richer on paper but in fact i lost 99billion and my country lost even also, while company and that country is getting richer. Also when you are occupied you cant say no, even if that occupation is not military. Thus you have Giffen goods such as Oil where price is rising and demand is rising also. And who has oil, well satellite states owned by USA.

If you consider that every time you sell something and someone is able to sell it for more that you lost something, you are calculating things wrong and in for a disappointing life. Why would anyone wish to purchase your labor if they were not able to profit off of it somehow?

We are not talking about selling something. If you have a problem to understand then well... Im talking about exploiting country rich in reasurces and without cash to start production by the country with large pockets. Who is talking about use of labor and making money that way. Large companies are only interested in making cash/money and thats the reason why are they moving entire facotries to a country that has low wages, we are talking about a company that wants to earn 10$ for every 1$ invested.  Profit is Ok, but profit made by exploting other countries is not. Thats the reason why globalization is bad. EU market is a prof of that. Small countries cant compete with big countries

I think you'd like what Herman Daly says: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3941
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March 19, 2013, 06:16:31 PM
 #44

Well again no, value of something has always been how someone is prepaird to pay. You can value your car to 50k $$$ but its worth how much is someone willing to pay. Also no, i'm richer on paper but in fact i lost 99billion and my country lost even also, while company and that country is getting richer. Also when you are occupied you cant say no, even if that occupation is not military. Thus you have Giffen goods such as Oil where price is rising and demand is rising also. And who has oil, well satellite states owned by USA.

If you consider that every time you sell something and someone is able to sell it for more that you lost something, you are calculating things wrong and in for a disappointing life. Why would anyone wish to purchase your labor if they were not able to profit off of it somehow?

We are not talking about selling something. If you have a problem to understand then well... Im talking about exploiting country rich in reasurces and without cash to start production by the country with large pockets. Who is talking about use of labor and making money that way. Large companies are only interested in making cash/money and thats the reason why are they moving entire facotries to a country that has low wages, we are talking about a company that wants to earn 10$ for every 1$ invested.  Profit is Ok, but profit made by exploting other countries is not. Thats the reason why globalization is bad. EU market is a prof of that. Small countries cant compete with big countries

I think you'd like what Herman Daly says: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3941

Will read it whn i get back home. Need to take GF to dinner Sad
notig (OP)
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March 21, 2013, 02:33:38 AM
 #45

Does someone who owns property have a right to the air over their property? Can they charge people to breathe it? could they somehow harvest it and create a permanent oxygen vacuum so nothing alive could reside in it? do they have a right to airspace over their property? If they don't own the oxygen over their property why do they own the precious metals or oil below it? do they own the magma really really below it? At what point does that stop? 100 feet? The radius of the earth?



 
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March 21, 2013, 03:02:42 AM
 #46

Does someone who owns property have a right to the air over their property? Can they charge people to breathe it? could they somehow harvest it and create a permanent oxygen vacuum so nothing alive could reside in it? do they have a right to airspace over their property? If they don't own the oxygen over their property why do they own the precious metals or oil below it? do they own the magma really really below it? At what point does that stop? 100 feet? The radius of the earth?

"Cuius est solum, eius est usque ad caelum et ad inferos"

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Brunic
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March 21, 2013, 06:18:22 PM
 #47

Last century, Americans company were coming in Canada, pumping iron and buying mining companies for cheap. With the same iron, they shipped it back into the US, made steel with it and sold it back to us at like 5x times the original price. I know "capitalist/freedom/etc", but this type of business doesn't create any plus-value.

That's a rather ignorant statement on your part.  No added value?  Try building something out of iron ore.  As it comes out of the ground, it's rather useless. Refining ore into steel is an energy-intensive process.  Try telling me with a straight face that there's no value in that.


Maybe I was not clear.

If you take the whole process (mining iron, processing it, selling it), you create value, I agree with that. But to get this value, you have a part of cost and a part of profit. The problem in the situation I exposed is that the biggest part of the cost was on our shoulders and the biggest part of the profit was in the pockets of the Americans. By cost, I'm talking about health cost like injuries or illnesses due to the mining part that need to be assumed by the society. I'm also talking about environmental damage and the fact that these resources are non-renewable.

Miners were treated like shit back in the days. It wasn't until they started to fight back and unionized themselves that the situation changed for the best. Today, we have knowledge, expertise and technology to do the same job a lot more efficiently.
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