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Author Topic: SatoshiDICE: Win Bitcoins while stress testing the network! (Reddit ad)  (Read 4003 times)
evoorhees
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March 22, 2013, 05:57:31 PM
 #21

Erik Voorhees is just another example of greed corrupting a once noble soul.

He can fix it, but doesn't think it is worth the effort - why should he, you're not the boss of him! You don't have those bitcoins rolling in! How dare you commoners try to point out his flawed implementation! And so it goes...

Once you're on that path, nothing will work - the money has taken over. Which is precisely why the transaction patch has been floated as a possible fix. Congratulations Erik, you're the first despoiler of the blockchain - how proud you must be.

I don't want SD to go away, he can continue to waterski behind yachts, I'd just prefer he didn't pollute the entire blockchain to do it.

"Greed corrupting a once noble soul..."  Or maybe a more apt observation is "jealousy corrupting a once logical community"

Bitcoin must handle 100x SatoshiDice. What happens if a nefarious group decides to spend $X creating dust on the blockchain en masse? Have you considered this? The community needs to face this fact. Criticizing me, or SatoshiDice, is a scapegoat and a foolish distraction.

"If only Erik and his yachts would go away, Bitcoin would once again be healthy and happy!"  Right... cause I spend my time waterskiing behind yachts.  Roll Eyes

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Peter Todd
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March 22, 2013, 06:50:55 PM
 #22

Bitcoin must handle 100x SatoshiDice. What happens if a nefarious group decides to spend $X creating dust on the blockchain en masse? Have you considered this? The community needs to face this fact. Criticizing me, or SatoshiDice, is a scapegoat and a foolish distraction.

I gotta agree with you there; we're lucky the first person to do so is known publicly. I created an uneconomical UTXO blocking patch myself, https://github.com/petertodd/bitcoin/tree/block-uneconomic-utxo-creation, and if anything the discussion around that patch showed a community that can't decide among themselves on an approach to take or even that it's an issue at all. Instead I do see a lot of silly crap like calls to block SatoshiDice specifically, in particular people like Luke-Jr calling on miners to "do their job" and filter out "garbage" - sounds like a whole lot of central control to me. You also get people like Mike who see no issues with an unlimited blocksize, because after all miners will "act responsibly" and ensure the chain doesn't get flooded with crap by an attacker.

Frankly if Bitcoin requires that mining be centralized enough and miners be well known enough that we have to ask them to protect the network whenever an attacker shows up we're screwed and haven't created the decentralized currency Bitcoin was supposed to be. After all look at FinCEN taking the first potshot at miners by referring to them directly in their recent guidance, not to mention how convenient it would be for regulators like them if mining is centralized.

Fundamentally the security model is supposed to be that Bitcoin will function just fine provided that less than 50% of the hashing power in existence is specifically trying to attack Bitcoin. Don't compromise on that guarantee.

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March 22, 2013, 09:39:09 PM
 #23

Erik Voorhees is just another example of greed corrupting a once noble soul.

He can fix it, but doesn't think it is worth the effort - why should he, you're not the boss of him! You don't have those bitcoins rolling in! How dare you commoners try to point out his flawed implementation! And so it goes...

Once you're on that path, nothing will work - the money has taken over. Which is precisely why the transaction patch has been floated as a possible fix. Congratulations Erik, you're the first despoiler of the blockchain - how proud you must be.

I don't want SD to go away, he can continue to waterski behind yachts, I'd just prefer he didn't pollute the entire blockchain to do it.

"Greed corrupting a once noble soul..."  Or maybe a more apt observation is "jealousy corrupting a once logical community"

Bitcoin must handle 100x SatoshiDice. What happens if a nefarious group decides to spend $X creating dust on the blockchain en masse? Have you considered this? The community needs to face this fact. Criticizing me, or SatoshiDice, is a scapegoat and a foolish distraction.

"If only Erik and his yachts would go away, Bitcoin would once again be healthy and happy!"  Right... cause I spend my time waterskiing behind yachts.  Roll Eyes



Sure thing Erik - your blockchain spam machine is beyond reproach. How silly of me to question your motives - I mean, it isn't like you're profiting off of the backs of others in the system, right? You're just a little fuzzy bunny nibbling amongst the blockchain leaves, taking small pellet-like craps that the environment can tolerate easily.

Wow, you really are just beyond help. Good luck with that, just remember we tried to talk some reason into you.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
TraderTimm
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March 22, 2013, 09:44:22 PM
 #24

Hehehe I knew the title of the ad would ruffle some feathers Wink

Oh, and a troll too - I'm Tim's total lack of surprise.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
sunnankar
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March 22, 2013, 11:39:44 PM
 #25

Bitcoin must handle 100x SatoshiDice. What happens if a nefarious group decides to spend $X creating dust on the blockchain en masse? Have you considered this? The community needs to face this fact. Criticizing me, or SatoshiDice, is a scapegoat and a foolish distraction.

I gotta agree with you there; we're lucky the first person to do so is known publicly. I created an uneconomical UTXO blocking patch myself,

At least you are doing something and have provided some reasonable and logical ideas for the argument.

It should also be noted that SD was taken offline during the inadvertent hard fork.

I think a bigger threat is some nefarious group that might try to mount an attack as suggested. A solution to this potential attack vector should be debated and decided on.

In the meantime, one of the great aspects of open-source is the ability to engage in cooperation without coordination. And isn't this a prime example?

thefiniteidea
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"In Us We Trust"


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March 23, 2013, 12:06:22 AM
 #26

Hehehe I knew the title of the ad would ruffle some feathers Wink

LMAO
of course you did.


Personally, I actually think SatoshiDice is GREAT for the network (I cant be the only one!). We're involved in a free market here!, and people should take advantage of whatever they can if the system allows them to; this is natural and good for securing the system. Because the sooner we figure out any issues that MAY come up with Bitcoin, the sooner we will figure out a way to solve them.

It's preparing us for the future, and is allowing us to overcome these issues before they're really really hard to fix.

SatoshiDice COULD make the blockchain issue nonexistent if they wanted to. But why should they? It's in their benefit not to, and its in all of ours.

I love it!

misterbigg
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GET IN - Smart Ticket Protocol - Live in market!


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March 23, 2013, 03:09:04 AM
 #27

Sure thing Erik - your blockchain spam machine is beyond reproach. How silly of me to question your motives - I mean, it isn't like you're profiting off of the backs of others in the system, right? You're just a little fuzzy bunny nibbling amongst the blockchain leaves, taking small pellet-like craps that the environment can tolerate easily.

This really made me laugh my ass off


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TraderTimm
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March 23, 2013, 08:00:31 AM
 #28


It should also be noted that SD was taken offline during the inadvertent hard fork.


Yes, it was taken offline - because he couldn't stand doublespends getting in the way of profitability. If you think it was for any other reason, you're mistaken. It's pretty much been proven the only thing Erik cares about beyond himself is how much he can stack up in the corner.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
MPOE-PR
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March 23, 2013, 09:16:42 AM
 #29

how is that illegal?  i can't think of any ads that aren't misleading or false in some ways.

His site has nothing to do with stress testing the network, but there they are making it sound like the people are almost required to play in order to help the network. Basically, they're trying to pretend that it's not a gambling site, of course most people will figure it out but only after clicking the link. I'm not trying to pretend I'm an expert on the topic, but basically he's advertising apples and serving oranges and a lot of people might be upset about that if they were expecting apples.

Gl with the site.

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Jobe7
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Now they are thinking what to do with me


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March 23, 2013, 11:13:49 AM
 #30

Satoshi Dice has a purpose (as others are stating), it won't 'break' the system, it's provided a nice early 'test'. And we've able to sort out a problem before bitcoin goes even more mainstream.

You gotta think about the equilibrium in the mining ..

Satoshi Dice works because of its transaction fees, miners love this, though (extra info on the network (barely noticable btw) the increase in mining value will be offset by more miners and current miners investing in better equipment. This brings the network back into 'speedy mode' (for those that noticed any difference). And thus ready for the next 'satoshi dice' style business.
ShireSilver
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March 23, 2013, 02:24:04 PM
 #31

It should also be noted that SD was taken offline during the inadvertent hard fork.


Yes, it was taken offline - because he couldn't stand doublespends getting in the way of profitability.

So what you're saying is that the incentives of the system make the people using the system behave in ways that help. Sounds good to me. Isn't that how a proper free market is supposed to work?  Grin

Shire Silver, a better bullion that fits in your wallet. Get some, now accepting bitcoin!
robocoin
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March 23, 2013, 02:45:12 PM
 #32

Bitcoin must handle 100x SatoshiDice. What happens if a nefarious group decides to spend $X creating dust on the blockchain en masse? Have you considered this? The community needs to face this fact. Criticizing me, or SatoshiDice, is a scapegoat and a foolish distraction.

I gotta agree with you there; we're lucky the first person to do so is known publicly. I created an uneconomical UTXO blocking patch myself,

At least you are doing something and have provided some reasonable and logical ideas for the argument.

It should also be noted that SD was taken offline during the inadvertent hard fork.

I think a bigger threat is some nefarious group that might try to mount an attack as suggested. A solution to this potential attack vector should be debated and decided on.

In the meantime, one of the great aspects of open-source is the ability to engage in cooperation without coordination. And isn't this a prime example?

Its simply true, more abuse will come. If Bitcoin can't handle SD it can't handle whats possible in the future. I said that before. No bitcoind v.1.0+ with SD being a problem.
MPOE-PR
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March 23, 2013, 11:18:19 PM
 #33

Its simply true, more abuse will come. If Bitcoin can't handle SD it can't handle whats possible in the future. I said that before. No bitcoind v.1.0+ with SD being a problem.

This for sure.

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TraderTimm
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March 24, 2013, 08:07:06 PM
 #34

It should also be noted that SD was taken offline during the inadvertent hard fork.


Yes, it was taken offline - because he couldn't stand doublespends getting in the way of profitability.

So what you're saying is that the incentives of the system make the people using the system behave in ways that help. Sounds good to me. Isn't that how a proper free market is supposed to work?  Grin

My point is this - there is a big difference between acting for the good of the system and acting merely to preserve profit. As the 'suits' would say, profit incentivizes completely different behaviors than altruistic ones.

I'm surprised I actually have to spell this out.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
MPOE-PR
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March 25, 2013, 12:31:53 AM
 #35

My point is this - there is a big difference between acting for the good of the system and acting merely to preserve profit. As the 'suits' would say, profit incentivizes completely different behaviors than altruistic ones.

I'm surprised I actually have to spell this out.

Altruistic is another word for dangerously stupid. And a dangerously stupid way to say dangerously stupid at that, because it makes it unapparent just how dangerously stupid the dangerously stupid stuff is.

Bear in mind that the world's most famous altruist was Adolf Hitler. (Hint: he wasn't doing it for money).

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TraderTimm
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March 25, 2013, 08:47:22 PM
 #36

My point is this - there is a big difference between acting for the good of the system and acting merely to preserve profit. As the 'suits' would say, profit incentivizes completely different behaviors than altruistic ones.

I'm surprised I actually have to spell this out.

Altruistic is another word for dangerously stupid. And a dangerously stupid way to say dangerously stupid at that, because it makes it unapparent just how dangerously stupid the dangerously stupid stuff is.

Bear in mind that the world's most famous altruist was Adolf Hitler. (Hint: he wasn't doing it for money).

Amazing, Godwin's law is alive and well.

Altruism is stupid? I suppose that is your personal view, because it is completely divergent from any community-centric thinking I've ever come across.

It actually saddens me that you think actions without profit are useless. What a horrible world it would be if everyone thought that.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
thoughtfan
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March 29, 2013, 11:38:44 AM
 #37

One thing I'm seeing with Bitcoin and the Internet is the bad advertising because nobody is monitoring it - not sure if that's a good or a bad thing but I've seen more than one site advertise with features that they don't actually have or use words like "biggest", "best" or "number #1" and from where I come from such claims should be backed by evidence and not used at will because they sound nice.

The SatoshiDice ad is at least clever, but I'm guessing it would still be illegal in the US and EU because the reality of SatoshiDice is very different from the ad (and it's not clearly a parody ad or anything like that).
So every lottery/raffle/game that does not have a negative house advantage should be banned from stating 'WIN xxxxx' and instead should say 'LOSE xxxxx (though there is also a chance you may win)'?  Roll Eyes

Please disregard Litecoin and Zcash badges to the left. I have just gathered they are an April fool's joke!
MPOE-PR
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March 29, 2013, 01:45:14 PM
 #38

Amazing, Godwin's law is alive and well.

Altruism is stupid? I suppose that is your personal view, because it is completely divergent from any community-centric thinking I've ever come across.

It actually saddens me that you think actions without profit are useless. What a horrible world it would be if everyone thought that.

I guess that simply shows you've never had anything but "community-centric" kool-aid.

Take a drink of water now and again, it's good for your kidneys.

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TraderTimm
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March 29, 2013, 06:14:51 PM
 #39

Amazing, Godwin's law is alive and well.

Altruism is stupid? I suppose that is your personal view, because it is completely divergent from any community-centric thinking I've ever come across.

It actually saddens me that you think actions without profit are useless. What a horrible world it would be if everyone thought that.

I guess that simply shows you've never had anything but "community-centric" kool-aid.

Take a drink of water now and again, it's good for your kidneys.

I'm fully aware what the depths of the human experience can produce, but I admit it is a first where I've seen someone take a psychopathic bent towards empathy and eject it from their mental core. But perhaps I don't care to swim with sharks. The people I surround myself with I can trust.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
MPOE-PR
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March 29, 2013, 07:24:26 PM
 #40

I'm fully aware what the depths of the human experience can produce, but I admit it is a first where I've seen someone take a psychopathic bent towards empathy and eject it from their mental core. But perhaps I don't care to swim with sharks. The people I surround myself with I can trust.

Isn't that just a wee bit egocentric in that it presumes you get a call in the matter? I'd imagine if they were actual sharks it all boiled down to whether they wish to swim with you, not whether you wish to swim with them.

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