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Author Topic: What is the price of Batch 3?  (Read 4106 times)
Aseras
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March 22, 2013, 07:29:52 PM
 #21

FWIW, I paid 114 BTC for a batch 1 unit, and 75 BTC for batch 2.

you paid $1,299 + 120 for batch one and $1500 for batch 2.  You sold your coins for that value at the time of the sale.

Those were the terms. Applying bitcoin value retroactively doesn't apply.

Oh, but it does. The whole purpose of buying Avalon unit is to generate bitcoins. So, we should think and calculate ROI for this project in BTC, not USD terms. It does not matter if the manufacturer price is expressed in BTC or USD.

I invested 114btc back in October and if it arrives tomorrow, I can expect it to produce 4.42btc per day (post diff adjustment), consuming about 0.06btc of electricity per day. That gives me 26 days to break even on my initial high-risk investment, after waiting for 6 months for the delivery. That is, 26 days if difficulty stays the same. But it won't stay the same, it will skyrocket down the road. Given the uncertainty of initial investment, I do not think that the rates of return for 1st batch Avalon pre-orders are unreasonable.

2nd batch Avalon dropped the price considerably in btc terms, and it was absolutely the BEST deal in terms of ROI. No wonder the demand was crazy.

With the 3rd batch, Avalon is still cheaper than the 1st batch customers paid, with much more certainty about the outcome.

Even if it made 100 btc per day, if the value of them crashes, what then? Bitcoin issue is volatility. Are you in it for money or bitcoins?

The first two batches avalon sold for bitcoins, but the bitcoins were sold instantly by a processor. You may have sent bitcoins but you paid USD for them.

bitcoins value is only useful at the time of a transaction.

comparing historical values one way or the other is foolish.

remember the 10,000 btc pizzas?
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March 22, 2013, 07:39:05 PM
 #22

Those of you bringing USD into this need to shut the fuck up. This isn't a USD mining machine, you don't buy it with USD, the USD-BTC exchange rate is inconsequential. The exchange rate is only the problem of people who want to be part of the corrupt governments rigged economy. The exchange rate is unrelated to this transaction.

You are buying a device in bitcoins to mine bitcoins to have bitcoins to take part in a bitcoin economy. Anybody who says different is just a profiteer trying to take away from what has been built here.
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March 22, 2013, 07:47:13 PM
 #23

Those of you bringing USD into this need to shut the fuck up. This isn't a USD mining machine, you don't buy it with USD, the USD-BTC exchange rate is inconsequential. The exchange rate is only the problem of people who want to be part of the corrupt governments rigged economy. The exchange rate is unrelated to this transaction.

You are buying a device in bitcoins to mine bitcoins to have bitcoins to take part in a bitcoin economy. Anybody who says different is just a profiteer trying to take away from what has been built here.

It is an issue if you need to purchase bitcoins.

It doesn't matter if you purchase something in bitcoins, USD, bottlecaps or seashells. Any currency has a value associated to it.

bitcoin right now has incredible volatility. it can change by the hour. Lately its been going up. tomorrow it could be much less or much more. in a month or two, who knows? We could pop right back down to $5 per btc, or rocket past $200. it's value matters then.

Batch 3 has been made into a gamble because of this on price alone. If you count avalons customer service and shipping rate and order management it's even more of a gamble.
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March 22, 2013, 08:04:04 PM
 #24

Everyone is raving about these overpriced avalon units in batch 3...

However I cant find the price anywhere at all... Can anyone shed some light on the price? thanks!

88 btc (3 modules)
113 btc (4 modules)

psu +2btc; freight charges +2btc

Hope you bought btc when they were cheap

Yifu has said that those prices were examples based on current difficulty and that the actual price will be based on difficulty when the units go on sale.
I missed it. Care to point it out?

Quote
That was an example estimate, I should probably clarified earlier, that 88 -115 is based on difficulty estimates, so this number will adjust accordingly, and I would say many things are lost in translation and taken the wrong way.

in other words, DO NOT take information to be final unless it is from the NEWSLETTER.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155345.msg1656559#msg1656559



All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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March 22, 2013, 08:07:10 PM
 #25

Everyone is raving about these overpriced avalon units in batch 3...

However I cant find the price anywhere at all... Can anyone shed some light on the price? thanks!

88 btc (3 modules)
113 btc (4 modules)

psu +2btc; freight charges +2btc

Hope you bought btc when they were cheap

Yifu has said that those prices were examples based on current difficulty and that the actual price will be based on difficulty when the units go on sale.
I missed it. Care to point it out?

Quote
That was an example estimate, I should probably clarified earlier, that 88 -115 is based on difficulty estimates, so this number will adjust accordingly, and I would say many things are lost in translation and taken the wrong way.

in other words, DO NOT take information to be final unless it is from the NEWSLETTER.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155345.msg1656559#msg1656559




Thank you, I'm waiting for the newsletter.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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March 22, 2013, 08:07:24 PM
 #26

IMO, If the hardware costs Avalon $800 to build the ASICS. Then they should charge a markup on top of that for their time and R&D. But stating that ROI is the reason of their price shady to me... We do not know if the Fed will step in within the time of buying an ASIC and your earnings to recoup the cost of the ASIC. And if Bitcoins become unusable due to ISPs blocking bitcoin traffic then you have a very expensive paperweight. Keep in the the word ASIC means Application Specific Integrated Circuit. So its only good for one thing and thats mining bitcoins.... IMO thats a BIG risk to take without knowing the legality and the future of Bitcoin.

As stated i think they should charge the cost to build the ASIC system and then a percentage on top to cover their R&D. But as stated they are the ONLY company on the market and this is a free market so they can do what they want... i am sure alot will still order, but they are really hurting future orders as most do not have that much BTC in the first place. AND alot of exchanges will not sell you that many BTC in one shot.

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March 22, 2013, 08:09:00 PM
 #27

remember the 10,000 btc pizzas?
What about them? You used to be able to buy a loaf of bread for nickle. Prices change.

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March 22, 2013, 08:18:13 PM
 #28

IMO, If the hardware costs Avalon $800 to build the ASICS. Then they should charge a markup on top of that for their time and R&D. But stating that ROI is the reason of their price shady to me... We do not know if the Fed will step in within the time of buying an ASIC and your earnings to recoup the cost of the ASIC. And if Bitcoins become unusable due to ISPs blocking bitcoin traffic then you have a very expensive paperweight. Keep in the the word ASIC means Application Specific Integrated Circuit. So its only good for one thing and thats mining bitcoins.... IMO thats a BIG risk to take without knowing the legality and the future of Bitcoin.

This applies to all ASICs and all vendors.  If the Feds step in/ISPs block Bitcoin traffic, then everyone's dedicated mining hardware becomes an expensive paperweight.  It's just one of the risks you need to take into account before purchasing mining hardware - whether it's an 88 BTC Avalon or a $39,000 Mini-rig.

And who in the hell are these exchanges which won't let you buy 100 BTC?

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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March 22, 2013, 08:21:47 PM
 #29

remember the 10,000 btc pizzas?
What about them? You used to be able to buy a loaf of bread for nickle. Prices change.
The price didn't change. Your money went through inflation over the years.

Your nickel has lost about 97% of it's purchasing power (give or take).

The gas you are pouring into your tank is also paid for in inflated fiat. Every time you see the price go up at the pump, that just means your dollars are worth less to the petroleum producers.

Chances are, if you paid in gold you wouldn't notice the change in price from the 1970's till now. If anything, it should be slightly cheaper.

Money printing is to blame. Each new dollar (from thin air) shaves a little more value off the ultimate pool of currency already in circulation. The value grows but the quality of each dollar does not.



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kaerf
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March 22, 2013, 08:24:40 PM
 #30

Those of you bringing USD into this need to shut the fuck up. This isn't a USD mining machine, you don't buy it with USD, the USD-BTC exchange rate is inconsequential. The exchange rate is only the problem of people who want to be part of the corrupt governments rigged economy. The exchange rate is unrelated to this transaction.

You are buying a device in bitcoins to mine bitcoins to have bitcoins to take part in a bitcoin economy. Anybody who says different is just a profiteer trying to take away from what has been built here.

It is an issue if you need to purchase bitcoins.

It doesn't matter if you purchase something in bitcoins, USD, bottlecaps or seashells. Any currency has a value associated to it.

bitcoin right now has incredible volatility. it can change by the hour. Lately its been going up. tomorrow it could be much less or much more. in a month or two, who knows? We could pop right back down to $5 per btc, or rocket past $200. it's value matters then.

Batch 3 has been made into a gamble because of this on price alone. If you count avalons customer service and shipping rate and order management it's even more of a gamble.

Let's see. Let me put this in perspective for you. When batch #1 went on sale, the price of BTC was around $12. It had recently "crashed" from around $15. Several months before, the price of BTC was less than $6 for a long time. Finally, let me remind you when Avalon was supposed to ship...FIVE months AFTER BFL was supposed to ship. If you want to talk about relative volatility and risk, batch #1 customers risked a lot more paying $1300 for non-existent technology from a bunch of recent college grads in china. You talk about gambling for batch 3...HA! All you have to do now is math now and a tiny bit of guessing.

I'm not saying batch #3 is a bargain. I most likely will not buy myself, but you need a reality check.


Edit: I see that you have a batch #1 order. You should know better than most others that batch #1 was way riskier than now.
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March 22, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
 #31

Whole lot of greedy people here unwilling to share the profit with the people enabling them to make it.

Avalon should just keep batch 3 and mine with it themselves. Then sell the equipment for whatever once the difficulty makes it less profitable.
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March 22, 2013, 08:27:58 PM
 #32


Each new dollar (from thin air) ASIC shaves a little more value off the ultimate pool of currency ASICs already in circulation. The value grows but the quality profitability of each dollar ASIC does not.


All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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March 22, 2013, 08:35:36 PM
 #33

remember the 10,000 btc pizzas?
What about them? You used to be able to buy a loaf of bread for nickle. Prices change.
The price didn't change. Your money went through inflation over the years.

Your nickel has lost about 97% of it's purchasing power (give or take).

The gas you are pouring into your tank is also paid for in inflated fiat. Every time you see the price go up at the pump, that just means your dollars are worth less to the petroleum producers.

Chances are, if you paid in gold you wouldn't notice the change in price from the 1970's till now. If anything, it should be slightly cheaper.

Money printing is to blame. Each new dollar (from thin air) shaves a little more value off the ultimate pool of currency already in circulation. The value grows but the quality of each dollar does not.
Oh I get that completely. My point was that just because something was one price yesterday, doesn't mean it will be the same price tomorrow.

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March 22, 2013, 08:40:09 PM
 #34

I bought an Avalon with BTC to get more BTC than I invested. This is not a USD forum.
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March 22, 2013, 08:45:26 PM
 #35


And who in the hell are these exchanges which won't let you buy 100 BTC?

Off and on i hear about exchanges not allowing more $5000 at a time. I am sure larger exchanges like gox will but not all.

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March 22, 2013, 08:45:38 PM
 #36

IMO, If the hardware costs Avalon $800 to build the ASICS. Then they should charge a markup on top of that for their time and R&D. But stating that ROI is the reason of their price shady to me... We do not know if the Fed will step in within the time of buying an ASIC and your earnings to recoup the cost of the ASIC. And if Bitcoins become unusable due to ISPs blocking bitcoin traffic then you have a very expensive paperweight. Keep in the the word ASIC means Application Specific Integrated Circuit. So its only good for one thing and thats mining bitcoins.... IMO thats a BIG risk to take without knowing the legality and the future of Bitcoin.

As stated i think they should charge the cost to build the ASIC system and then a percentage on top to cover their R&D. But as stated they are the ONLY company on the market and this is a free market so they can do what they want... i am sure alot will still order, but they are really hurting future orders as most do not have that much BTC in the first place. AND alot of exchanges will not sell you that many BTC in one shot.

I think you're saying: You need to weigh the risks of this inherently risky en-devour and if you can not handle the risk, do not get involved in mining with current ASIC technology.

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March 22, 2013, 08:49:12 PM
 #37


Each new dollar (from thin air) ASIC shaves a little more value off the ultimate pool of currency ASICs already in circulation. The value grows but the quality profitability of each dollar ASIC does not.



+1,000,000 - this is true and I said this last summer.   It is a arms race where only the deeper pockets will get in until we reach equilibrium in difficulty.

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March 22, 2013, 08:50:49 PM
 #38

IMO, If the hardware costs Avalon $800 to build the ASICS. Then they should charge a markup on top of that for their time and R&D. But stating that ROI is the reason of their price shady to me... We do not know if the Fed will step in within the time of buying an ASIC and your earnings to recoup the cost of the ASIC. And if Bitcoins become unusable due to ISPs blocking bitcoin traffic then you have a very expensive paperweight. Keep in the the word ASIC means Application Specific Integrated Circuit. So its only good for one thing and thats mining bitcoins.... IMO thats a BIG risk to take without knowing the legality and the future of Bitcoin.

This applies to all ASICs and all vendors.  If the Feds step in/ISPs block Bitcoin traffic, then everyone's dedicated mining hardware becomes an expensive paperweight.  It's just one of the risks you need to take into account before purchasing mining hardware - whether it's an 88 BTC Avalon or a $39,000 Mini-rig.

And who in the hell are these exchanges which won't let you buy 100 BTC?

they cant block p2p and torrenting with all the money and lawsuits, bitcoin is easy to hide and tunnel. the only way they could block it is to cut the cords.

the problems isn't buying coins it's money transfer/laundering laws kicking in for the $amount transactions now that btc isn't worthless.
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March 22, 2013, 08:56:07 PM
 #39

Those of you bringing USD into this need to shut the fuck up. This isn't a USD mining machine, you don't buy it with USD, the USD-BTC exchange rate is inconsequential. The exchange rate is only the problem of people who want to be part of the corrupt governments rigged economy. The exchange rate is unrelated to this transaction.

You are buying a device in bitcoins to mine bitcoins to have bitcoins to take part in a bitcoin economy. Anybody who says different is just a profiteer trying to take away from what has been built here.

It is an issue if you need to purchase bitcoins.

It doesn't matter if you purchase something in bitcoins, USD, bottlecaps or seashells. Any currency has a value associated to it.

bitcoin right now has incredible volatility. it can change by the hour. Lately its been going up. tomorrow it could be much less or much more. in a month or two, who knows? We could pop right back down to $5 per btc, or rocket past $200. it's value matters then.

Batch 3 has been made into a gamble because of this on price alone. If you count avalons customer service and shipping rate and order management it's even more of a gamble.

Let's see. Let me put this in perspective for you. When batch #1 went on sale, the price of BTC was around $12. It had recently "crashed" from around $15. Several months before, the price of BTC was less than $6 for a long time. Finally, let me remind you when Avalon was supposed to ship...FIVE months AFTER BFL was supposed to ship. If you want to talk about relative volatility and risk, batch #1 customers risked a lot more paying $1300 for non-existent technology from a bunch of recent college grads in china. You talk about gambling for batch 3...HA! All you have to do now is math now and a tiny bit of guessing.

I'm not saying batch #3 is a bargain. I most likely will not buy myself, but you need a reality check.


Edit: I see that you have a batch #1 order. You should know better than most others that batch #1 was way riskier than now.

https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price

See that, that's a bubble. avalons getting greedy and its gonna bite them in the ass.

yeah I have a wave 1 batch 1 order, for units I still don't have and dhl doesn't see yet either. so I'm well aware of how "risky" it is to be two batches in the hole while avalon is pumping batch 3 right before the btc price collapses after the bubble i see forming.  I've been following bitcoin for a long time, way before the first spike and crash. same thing here, except before it was GPU, now it's asic.

I'm not in btc for the money. I'm a researcher. I'm in it for the fun and novelty. everything Ive made has gone back into the "hobby". New computers, or gpus and avalons.
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March 22, 2013, 09:09:19 PM
 #40

For those of you complaining about the exchange rate, They just got $715 cheaper in the last 10 minutes  Cheesy
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