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Author Topic: [ANN][rICO]Antshares Blockchain Mainnet is ONLINE!  (Read 1132135 times)
antshares
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August 17, 2016, 02:42:01 PM
 #801

very cool looking coin. for transparency, do you have the main address all the btc is going to please? i would liek to see this before deciding to invest large or small please?

So for now all the btc is in each investors exclusive investing address. After the ICO those btc will be in a 2/3 multi-sig escrow account. The address might be 3LZoBhKUJzuyk7w3aX5H4LdmopJ8m5aesv but it's not final yet. We'll disclose the escrow account address before the transfer. Please DON'T send btc to this address because that will cause your investment ineligible for ANS.

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antshares
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August 17, 2016, 02:43:23 PM
 #802

What is the total coin cap?

I see 3500+ btcs are invested until now.

How can I calculate a price of AntShare as of now?


Hi, the coin price is determined by the market and the calculation formula is ANS received by a participant= (BTC invested by the participant/all valid BTC investment)*20,000,000*weighted factor
For more details regarding the ICO rules go here:https://www.antshares.org/en-US/Blog/Details/21
For how to participate go here:https://www.antshares.org/en-US/Blog/Details/26
Thanks!

You can also use the trick of triple clicking very rapidly on Antshares ICO latest statistic in the ICO web page and you'll get the price depending on current investments. I just did it and I get 1ANS ≈ $ 0.1026.


Right! Thanks!

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August 17, 2016, 05:37:32 PM
 #803

Hypothetically , now,if my investment 0.036/3500*20000000*120 ==24720 ANS?
Right?
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August 17, 2016, 05:43:18 PM
 #804

Hypothetically , now,if my investment 0.036/3500*20000000*120 ==24720 ANS?
Right?

In fact the early bird reward is 120%(1.2) not 120...

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August 17, 2016, 06:20:57 PM
 #805

This seems to be a very interesting project. I've spent the last couple of hours to read and learn more about it.

But I have a few questions. I'm not a technical-guy but what I would like to understand better is this:

What is delegated Byzantine Fault Tolerance, or dBFT?

I believe that I understand the principle, that it's about elected nodes run by professionals, but:

...in the Pre-Ann it's said:

"The consensus model is a Delegated Byzantine Fault Tolerance, which is similar to Delegated Proof-of-Stake Model. In Antshares, ANS holders will vote on trusted nodes who will confirm transactions."

Will there be a limit of nodes?



And the economical-design is very(!) interesting, but also not easy to understand.

My first question may sound naive: Shareholders (ANS) get ANC-payouts, right? It's not selling ANS for ANC, ANS won't be "consumed" for ANC? Are there two different kind of addresses or how does that work practically?  


And it's said that both "tokens" will be tradeable and I'm very eager to see how the exchanges will find prices in such a complex system. It needs some understanding to come to rational conclusions about value. ;-)

My next questions: Who and how will the price of using the system will be set? Or with other words: If the price of ANC would explode out of irrational-market-pumping - what will prevent the whole system to become too expensive to use it? In the whitepaper it's said "Antshares uses fiat currency internally."

Is that combined with a price-fixing regarding the fees to use the system?
And: Is that (Fiat) already safe regarding law and regulations etc. or could there be setbacks or even a ban/barrier?



A more practical question regarding the market: Will ANS also launch on western-exchanges, hopefully Poloniex, or is that something that shouldn't be expected right after launch?


Sorry if I missed the answers. I've read this thread and the whitepaper, but it's not easy to understand while it's really interesting.
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August 17, 2016, 07:07:07 PM
 #806

I already have some more questions while thinking about ANS and ANC and fees and the nodes.

In the whitepaper is said:

"ANC are used for

Accounting Charge payment
Extra Service Charge payment
Bookkeeper Nominee Deposit as collateral"


....and:

"ANC will be written into the corresponding ANS addresses proportionally. ANS holders could claim these ANC to their ANS address anytime they wish to. For example, a shareholder who has 1% of all the ANS could acquire 8*0.01=0.08 ANC in every block of the 1st year, meaning 460.8 ANC everyday."


...and:

"To write a transaction onchain, a certain number of AntCoins will be charged as accounting fees, which goes to the bookkeepers to compensate their expenditures in storage, connection and computing resources. (...) As long as more than 2/3 of the bookkeepers are willing to, a transaction can be free of charge when writing into the Antshares Blockchain. Thus, organizations using Antshares in bulk could pay the bookkeeper offchain with fiat currency without further the hassle of paying AntCoins onchain."

Bookkeeper = nodes? There is said "could pay the bookkeeper offchain" - singular? Or is that just a typo/error?



There will be 8 ANC per Block and those new created ANC will be distributed to 100% to the shareholders, right?

And those who will run the nodes will be paid with fees whenever the system is used or if 2/3 of the bookkeepers agree in fiat.


I try to think about possible price-scenarios of ANC. Thing is: If those who will run the servers could agree to take no fee but Fiat off-chain, there would be not that much incentive to care about the price of ANC or am I wrong? It's a very theoretical scenario, because it can be expected that those who will run the nodes will also hold shares and get payouts in ANC and some fees in ANC but what I try to find out in short words: Will the price of ANS and the price of ANC be connected in a predictable way or will it be more kind of surprise?  ;-)


And when it comes to the question of immutability and decentralization: What could prevent a centralized scenario if, for example, a big company would hold so many shares that they could vote that many own servers as bookkeepers to get the whole system under centralized control? 


My questions are really not meant critical in any way because in my opinion it's the most interesting economical design since Factom - but more complex and really not easy to understand. ;-)

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August 17, 2016, 07:37:04 PM
 #807

another ICO but at least this ICO is refundable in case investors want out unlike other ICO's which treat your investments as "donation"..



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adamvp
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August 17, 2016, 09:13:32 PM
 #808

Filipino Translation Up

Here

Cool to see all the different translations coming in.

Quote
antshares information can be found in many languages: 🇷🇺, 🇩🇪 , 🇮🇩, 🇸🇮, 🇫🇷, 🇬🇷 , 🇵🇱, 🇮🇹, 🇷🇴, 🇳🇱, 🇭🇷 and even more https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1571738.0

Can you specify how the twitter/newsletter bounty payout will work out?
Are you recording this or shall every participate send you a mail with all the details and proof and with their antshares ICO address?



We have records, but it's better that you can send us a summary of your bounty activities to check. And you do need to send us your antshares address.
Thanks!

I have joined the twitter, facebook (...)
You cannot join facebook because their facebook is broken, at least devs answered me so if I asked for fb bounty..
I've just followed tt and sign for newsletter,

Now I wonder if I get any bounty for clicks on my signature if I make it on another forum?
Because now my signature is hired now..

Well...you need to have our bitcointalk signature first in order to get our sig bounty click reward...
And yes our fb is kind of broken...
Thanks!

But for twitter and newsletter  bounty I do not need btc signature?
What to do to get bounty  if yes then?

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August 17, 2016, 09:21:34 PM
 #809

Filipino Translation Up

Here

Cool to see all the different translations coming in.

Quote
antshares information can be found in many languages: 🇷🇺, 🇩🇪 , 🇮🇩, 🇸🇮, 🇫🇷, 🇬🇷 , 🇵🇱, 🇮🇹, 🇷🇴, 🇳🇱, 🇭🇷 and even more https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1571738.0

Can you specify how the twitter/newsletter bounty payout will work out?
Are you recording this or shall every participate send you a mail with all the details and proof and with their antshares ICO address?



We have records, but it's better that you can send us a summary of your bounty activities to check. And you do need to send us your antshares address.
Thanks!

I have joined the twitter, facebook (...)
You cannot join facebook because their facebook is broken, at least devs answered me so if I asked for fb bounty..
I've just followed tt and sign for newsletter,

Now I wonder if I get any bounty for clicks on my signature if I make it on another forum?
Because now my signature is hired now..

Well...you need to have our bitcointalk signature first in order to get our sig bounty click reward...
And yes our fb is kind of broken...
Thanks!

But for twitter and newsletter  bounty I do not need btc signature?
What to do to get bounty  if yes then?
You need to send email with your twitter username etc to contact@antshares.org

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August 17, 2016, 09:33:00 PM
 #810

for siganture campaign, member who join the signature campaign can using 2 different signature campaign?
cause i see member using two different sig camp




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August 17, 2016, 09:48:42 PM
 #811

Hypothetically , now,if my investment 0.036/3500*20000000*120 ==24720 ANS?
Right?

In fact the early bird reward is 120%(1.2) not 120...
Can you pls add full screen option to player with  video from your site?)

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PROPY
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tempus
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August 17, 2016, 10:17:42 PM
 #812

Hypothetically , now,if my investment 0.036/3500*20000000*120 ==24720 ANS?
Right?

In fact the early bird reward is 120%(1.2) not 120...
Can you pls add full screen option to player with  video from your site?)

You can watch it on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf9YQfWErOA
Skyrik
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August 17, 2016, 10:20:23 PM
 #813

Hypothetically , now,if my investment 0.036/3500*20000000*120 ==24720 ANS?
Right?

In fact the early bird reward is 120%(1.2) not 120...
Can you pls add full screen option to player with  video from your site?)

You can watch it on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf9YQfWErOA
oh thanks . Want to watch this video in 1080p Smiley

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August 18, 2016, 12:27:58 AM
 #814

I'm not sure if Spanish translation is reserved (search results didn't show), if not I would like to work on it.

                                                                       
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MR_Zach
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August 18, 2016, 03:28:30 AM
 #815

I'm not sure if Spanish translation is reserved (search results didn't show), if not I would like to work on it.

Don't have Spanish translation yet, you can do it
Coin_trader
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ANN and White Paper Translator into Filipino...


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August 18, 2016, 04:03:27 AM
 #816

World's first refundable ICO? yes, you're the first that giving such great opportunity, never seen one of this kind, your such "one of a kind" not to add the great Team presentation presented in this ANN.
truly an encouraging one.

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antshares
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August 18, 2016, 04:04:19 AM
 #817

This seems to be a very interesting project. I've spent the last couple of hours to read and learn more about it.

But I have a few questions. I'm not a technical-guy but what I would like to understand better is this:

What is delegated Byzantine Fault Tolerance, or dBFT?

I believe that I understand the principle, that it's about elected nodes run by professionals, but:

...in the Pre-Ann it's said:

"The consensus model is a Delegated Byzantine Fault Tolerance, which is similar to Delegated Proof-of-Stake Model. In Antshares, ANS holders will vote on trusted nodes who will confirm transactions."

Will there be a limit of nodes?



And the economical-design is very(!) interesting, but also not easy to understand.

My first question may sound naive: Shareholders (ANS) get ANC-payouts, right? It's not selling ANS for ANC, ANS won't be "consumed" for ANC? Are there two different kind of addresses or how does that work practically?  


And it's said that both "tokens" will be tradeable and I'm very eager to see how the exchanges will find prices in such a complex system. It needs some understanding to come to rational conclusions about value. ;-)

My next questions: Who and how will the price of using the system will be set? Or with other words: If the price of ANC would explode out of irrational-market-pumping - what will prevent the whole system to become too expensive to use it? In the whitepaper it's said "Antshares uses fiat currency internally."

Is that combined with a price-fixing regarding the fees to use the system?
And: Is that (Fiat) already safe regarding law and regulations etc. or could there be setbacks or even a ban/barrier?



A more practical question regarding the market: Will ANS also launch on western-exchanges, hopefully Poloniex, or is that something that shouldn't be expected right after launch?


Sorry if I missed the answers. I've read this thread and the whitepaper, but it's not easy to understand while it's really interesting.

You are such a thinker! It's really good to have people actually reading the White Paper in details. Your interest is very much appreciated!

For your questions:
1. So ANC will be given to the ANS holders by giving them the right to initiate a transaction to claim the ANC in the system. In that way, the right to initiate ANC claim is consumed, but ANS is not.
2. You can understand the value of ANC and ANS in a way pretty much like loans. Holding the ANS is like holding bonds and you will get ANC (interest & principle) payment in the future. Now we are doing ICO and market will determine the price for ANS. If ANC is too expensive people will long ANS and short ANC. That will decrease the ANC price. Also, people can directly use fiat currency in the system to buy ANC. Also we hold certain amount of ANC if we find that people are holding ANC with a malevolence intent to speculate, making ANC price to go up and unaffordable for normal users, we'll provide additional supply.
3. Some of our fees are fixed for now such as asset registration. Others like bookkeeper fees are determined by the market. As for fiat currency it is fine in China because its nature is more of buying a kind of service. But for overseas fiat currency I have to confess that we are not sure if there is setbacks
4. Yes, we are working on both Chinese and overseas exchanges. Poloniex is certainly our target and I would say it's fair to expect landing exchanges after launch

mtnsaa
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August 18, 2016, 04:25:27 AM
 #818

I'm not sure if Spanish translation is reserved (search results didn't show), if not I would like to work on it.
Don't have Spanish translation yet, you can do it

Great, I will start working on it soon, should be ready by tomorrow.

                                                                       
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antshares
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August 18, 2016, 04:32:02 AM
 #819

I already have some more questions while thinking about ANS and ANC and fees and the nodes.

In the whitepaper is said:

"ANC are used for

Accounting Charge payment
Extra Service Charge payment
Bookkeeper Nominee Deposit as collateral"


....and:

"ANC will be written into the corresponding ANS addresses proportionally. ANS holders could claim these ANC to their ANS address anytime they wish to. For example, a shareholder who has 1% of all the ANS could acquire 8*0.01=0.08 ANC in every block of the 1st year, meaning 460.8 ANC everyday."


...and:

"To write a transaction onchain, a certain number of AntCoins will be charged as accounting fees, which goes to the bookkeepers to compensate their expenditures in storage, connection and computing resources. (...) As long as more than 2/3 of the bookkeepers are willing to, a transaction can be free of charge when writing into the Antshares Blockchain. Thus, organizations using Antshares in bulk could pay the bookkeeper offchain with fiat currency without further the hassle of paying AntCoins onchain."

Bookkeeper = nodes? There is said "could pay the bookkeeper offchain" - singular? Or is that just a typo/error?



There will be 8 ANC per Block and those new created ANC will be distributed to 100% to the shareholders, right?

And those who will run the nodes will be paid with fees whenever the system is used or if 2/3 of the bookkeepers agree in fiat.


I try to think about possible price-scenarios of ANC. Thing is: If those who will run the servers could agree to take no fee but Fiat off-chain, there would be not that much incentive to care about the price of ANC or am I wrong? It's a very theoretical scenario, because it can be expected that those who will run the nodes will also hold shares and get payouts in ANC and some fees in ANC but what I try to find out in short words: Will the price of ANS and the price of ANC be connected in a predictable way or will it be more kind of surprise?  ;-)


And when it comes to the question of immutability and decentralization: What could prevent a centralized scenario if, for example, a big company would hold so many shares that they could vote that many own servers as bookkeepers to get the whole system under centralized control? 


My questions are really not meant critical in any way because in my opinion it's the most interesting economical design since Factom - but more complex and really not easy to understand. ;-)



Ah yes, it should be bookkeepers!
Yes, all new ANC will be distributed 100% to ANS holders. And yes for the bookkeeping fees.
For the ANC consumption, bookkeeping fees could use fiat directly but other activities such as asset registration requires ANC consumption and those consumed ANC is back to the system awaiting ANS holders to initiate a claim transaction.
Price of ANS is the present value of a serial of ANC payments. It's like a bond.
As for this ICO we are mainly distributing ANS to individual investors. In the future there might be a big company trying to buy Antshares. But as you may see from historical merger & acquisition cases, hostile takeover will definitely cost a lot. We believe the ANS price will be around the fair value normally so if hostile takeover happens, the acquiring firm will have to pay a lot more than what the system values. That will decrease the possibility of centralized control.
Thanks!

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August 18, 2016, 04:36:05 AM
 #820

I already have some more questions while thinking about ANS and ANC and fees and the nodes.

In the whitepaper is said:

"ANC are used for

Accounting Charge payment
Extra Service Charge payment
Bookkeeper Nominee Deposit as collateral"


....and:

"ANC will be written into the corresponding ANS addresses proportionally. ANS holders could claim these ANC to their ANS address anytime they wish to. For example, a shareholder who has 1% of all the ANS could acquire 8*0.01=0.08 ANC in every block of the 1st year, meaning 460.8 ANC everyday."


...and:

"To write a transaction onchain, a certain number of AntCoins will be charged as accounting fees, which goes to the bookkeepers to compensate their expenditures in storage, connection and computing resources. (...) As long as more than 2/3 of the bookkeepers are willing to, a transaction can be free of charge when writing into the Antshares Blockchain. Thus, organizations using Antshares in bulk could pay the bookkeeper offchain with fiat currency without further the hassle of paying AntCoins onchain."

Bookkeeper = nodes? There is said "could pay the bookkeeper offchain" - singular? Or is that just a typo/error?



There will be 8 ANC per Block and those new created ANC will be distributed to 100% to the shareholders, right?

And those who will run the nodes will be paid with fees whenever the system is used or if 2/3 of the bookkeepers agree in fiat.


I try to think about possible price-scenarios of ANC. Thing is: If those who will run the servers could agree to take no fee but Fiat off-chain, there would be not that much incentive to care about the price of ANC or am I wrong? It's a very theoretical scenario, because it can be expected that those who will run the nodes will also hold shares and get payouts in ANC and some fees in ANC but what I try to find out in short words: Will the price of ANS and the price of ANC be connected in a predictable way or will it be more kind of surprise?  ;-)


And when it comes to the question of immutability and decentralization: What could prevent a centralized scenario if, for example, a big company would hold so many shares that they could vote that many own servers as bookkeepers to get the whole system under centralized control? 


My questions are really not meant critical in any way because in my opinion it's the most interesting economical design since Factom - but more complex and really not easy to understand. ;-)



Ah yes, it should be bookkeepers!
Yes, all new ANC will be distributed 100% to ANS holders. And yes for the bookkeeping fees.
For the ANC consumption, bookkeeping fees could use fiat directly but other activities such as asset registration requires ANC consumption and those consumed ANC is back to the system awaiting ANS holders to initiate a claim transaction.
Price of ANS is the present value of a serial of ANC payments. It's like a bond.
As for this ICO we are mainly distributing ANS to individual investors. In the future there might be a big company trying to buy Antshares. But as you may see from historical merger & acquisition cases, hostile takeover will definitely cost a lot. We believe the ANS price will be around the fair value normally so if hostile takeover happens, the acquiring firm will have to pay a lot more than what the system values. That will decrease the possibility of centralized control.
Thanks!


All you say makes me feel like ANS skyrocket in prices. However, I don't want to speculate. So far, the investments from individuals are huge. I want to hear more news like this continuously.

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