Evaporation cooling for cheap

[ChineseSavior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_ubf0zqvSQ

Has anyone done this? I use many of these fans zip tied together for airflow. I am wondering if build a single system would work well with many fans

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[NorrisK]

Wouldn't a system like that increase the humidity of the room a lot? I'm not sure if your setup with a lot of electronics and casings that are not tested for these environments would be very happy in there.

It does seem like a very potent cooling system though, so it may be worth a try.

Regarding multiple fans: If they all spin in the same direction it should work similar to a larger fan, only with potentially more noise due to higher rpm needed.

[ChineseSavior]

I live in an area with under 30% humidity. Its lower then vegas. I dont think it would be an issue as long as long as the cooler was not directly in front of the intake fans on the equipment and also from the reading i have done as long as you maintain airflow (dont lock the room shut with the cooler and create a sauna effect) it should stay pretty low.

Actually there is a few guys on here the one that just started the mine in the chinese mountians where the entire wall of there building is a giant evap cooler they hand made

[MarkAz]

I use evap ALOT - the key is whether or not you live in a dry climate or not.  If you do, then it's amazingly effective and efficient, you can get ~80f chilled air at a couple hundred ways of power (just pump and fan really).  You need to design your system accordingly though, so you want to pull in your pre-evap air from the outside, and you need to exhaust air out of the room by some other means.  You can't just put evap in a room and expect it to cool it - it's only cooling by adding moisture to the air, but there's a limit to how much the air can actually carry.  This is why it doesn't work in humid environments, and if you weren't bringing in outside air and venting the existing air out, then all you're really doing is making a humid environment.

If moisture is an issue (and it really isn't for most mining operations), or you want to look at taking the temps below wet-bulb, then you should check out direct-indirect evap.  I have one of those systems, and it's very cool.  If basically takes evap air and runs it as a cooling process for normal air - so you get the temperature drop without the increase in moisture.  Mine is a combination, so it still introduces moisture, but it cools lower than a traditional evap.

If you're looking to build a system on the cheap, I would look at building something almost like an evap filter on the intake of your room air - so all air pulled in will pass through this evap filter (just use normal evap media and put a small pump and toilet leveler in a bucket).  Then install an attic exhaust fan, and have that be what pulls the air through the room.  I've done that and it works surprisingly well.

[MarkAz]

Actually there is a few guys on here the one that just started the mine in the chinese mountians where the entire wall of there building is a giant evap cooler they hand made

Here's a much better build video than the one you linked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A67u3NyC9w8

I've done very similar builds myself - really easy to do and inexpensive.  Works like a champ...  One thing to make sure is to add some Biocide periodically to the water, so you don't start developing mold, etc.

You also mentioned not having it close to the intake - it actually doesn't matter really.  While the air is certainly more humid - it's just like running the machines in a humid environment, except the humidity wicks off anything it touches much quicker.  I actually visited a larger mine that used industrial misting, positioned right by the intakes without any problems.

[ChineseSavior]

I need to figure out a way to attach one of these to a large resivor like a cheap trashcan so when i am away from my house for a few weeks it can have unlimited water? only a few more weeks and i will not really need this anymore as it will be cooling down. I am thinking i may just wait it out until next year because im not really losing / making moneyu if i invest in all this evap cooling gear. Basically mid - end august temps will be cool enough to most likely run around the clock

im on the fence. I dont want to damage any equipment from running hotter. Im not sure if that is really possible with thermal overloads but i have hear high temps do decrease electronics life so idk. this is pretty industrial equipment i have seen bitamains stuff last a long time. most faults are because of 3rd party pdu

[MarkAz]

I need to figure out a way to attach one of these to a large resivor like a cheap trashcan so when i am away from my house for a few weeks it can have unlimited water? only a few more weeks and i will not really need this anymore as it will be cooling down. I am thinking i may just wait it out until next year because im not really losing / making moneyu if i invest in all this evap cooling gear. Basically mid - end august temps will be cool enough to most likely run around the clock

Assuming you're in an environment like mine (Arizona), while evap is required over the summer, it's still great in the winter.  While it might not add much cooling over ambient, it will give airflow and filtering, so dust isn't as much of an issue.

In terms of water storage - don't screw around with a trash can full of water or things like that, just run a low pressure line of water to it.  It's super easy to do an a plumber can do it for you inexpensively, and that single line can handle a bunch of evaps.  Each one will have it's own floats, and just adds water as it evaporates - it's really a simple system when you get down to it - but if you don't handle refilling and overflow in an automated way, you've got a good chance you're dry run your pump and wreck it - which is probably your single biggest cost of the system (except maybe the air handler, depending on what you're using).

im on the fence. I dont want to damage any equipment from running hotter. Im not sure if that is really possible with thermal overloads but i have hear high temps do decrease electronics life so idk. this is pretty industrial equipment i have seen bitamains stuff last a long time. most faults are because of 3rd party pdu

My experience has been exactly the opposite - I've found Bitmain (and most of the hardware makers) gear is going to be the most likely to fail.  Heck, I would say 10% of Bitmain gear I've purchased has had issues right out of the box, or within 24 hours of running.  On the contract, I don't think I've ever had a PDU die on more, or PSU (which is what I'm assuming you meant) - but I only user server-grade PDU/PSU's, so unlikely to be an issue there.

[ChineseSavior]

nobody is allowed on the residence at this time. Looks like i will have to look into how to do this more. Any links would really help me. Thanks Like how to run the line and the floats and such. also what did bitmain end up doing for you for all the failures? Did you have to eat the losses?

[MarkAz]

nobody is allowed on the residence at this time. Looks like i will have to look into how to do this more. Any links would really help me. Thanks Like how to run the line and the floats and such. also what did bitmain end up doing for you for all the failures? Did you have to eat the losses?

For the ones that ran but poorly they gave me discounts (but nothing really substantial) - for ones that failed they replaced them, but it took a LONG time.  I didn't use their US warranty place, so that may be faster.  All in all I was buying enough that it didn't have as much an impact than if it was the only one or two I bought.

Running a water line is simple, you just need to find the closest water source - if it's outside, it might be a sprinkler system (before regulator) or faucet line, if it's indoors then it's bathrooms or kitchen lines.  You cut off the house water, open some faucets to release the pressure, then cut the pipe and put in a T junction.  This isn't a great example, but you get the idea:

http://amzn.to/2aHxvmB

Then in terms of the float, I've always just used either toilet floats or evap floats, just depending on whatever was handy.  You make something a basin for the water, like a bucket you buy at home depot.  This is where the water goes in with the float valve controlling the incoming water.  You also put the pump in here that just continuously pumps the water to above the evap media - there I use a pvc pipe with holes drilled in it, to try to evenly flow the water over the media.  The important thing is to make sure you have more holes than you do pressure, so you don't make the pump work more than it should.  I sometimes drill in larger holes on the sides to act as 'overflow' so it can never completely fill the drip pvc.  Then just make a collection gutter on the bottom and have that flow back into the bucket.  That's basically it - you'll have a fully functional evap - although you still need an air source to move air over the media - but I use an exhaust fan on the opposite side of the room, so it effectively pulls air through the media.

That video I link above is a great step-by-step of building a similar unit - he does a great job and covers all the basics.  If you're interested more in the direct-indirect systems, and how they work, then check out the videos at Coolerado:

http://www.coolerado.com/

Their system is REALLY nice, but also pretty expensive for what it is - but the way they separate the two sides of the system is really nice.  I've seen them used in a couple data centers...

[ChineseSavior]

nobody is allowed on the residence at this time. Looks like i will have to look into how to do this more. Any links would really help me. Thanks Like how to run the line and the floats and such. also what did bitmain end up doing for you for all the failures? Did you have to eat the losses?

For the ones that ran but poorly they gave me discounts (but nothing really substantial) - for ones that failed they replaced them, but it took a LONG time.  I didn't use their US warranty place, so that may be faster.  All in all I was buying enough that it didn't have as much an impact than if it was the only one or two I bought.

Running a water line is simple, you just need to find the closest water source - if it's outside, it might be a sprinkler system (before regulator) or faucet line, if it's indoors then it's bathrooms or kitchen lines.  You cut off the house water, open some faucets to release the pressure, then cut the pipe and put in a T junction.  This isn't a great example, but you get the idea:

http://amzn.to/2aHxvmB

Then in terms of the float, I've always just used either toilet floats or evap floats, just depending on whatever was handy.  You make something a basin for the water, like a bucket you buy at home depot.  This is where the water goes in with the float valve controlling the incoming water.  You also put the pump in here that just continuously pumps the water to above the evap media - there I use a pvc pipe with holes drilled in it, to try to evenly flow the water over the media.  The important thing is to make sure you have more holes than you do pressure, so you don't make the pump work more than it should.  I sometimes drill in larger holes on the sides to act as 'overflow' so it can never completely fill the drip pvc.  Then just make a collection gutter on the bottom and have that flow back into the bucket.  That's basically it - you'll have a fully functional evap - although you still need an air source to move air over the media - but I use an exhaust fan on the opposite side of the room, so it effectively pulls air through the media.

That video I link above is a great step-by-step of building a similar unit - he does a great job and covers all the basics.  If you're interested more in the direct-indirect systems, and how they work, then check out the videos at Coolerado:

http://www.coolerado.com/

Their system is REALLY nice, but also pretty expensive for what it is - but the way they separate the two sides of the system is really nice.  I've seen them used in a couple data centers...

bro i understand the concept of the plumbing now thanks so much for explaining it. only problem now is that i am in a new place is finding this water line. This is going to be a nightmare and could take days?

Is there something simpler i could do? I dont like going on hunts and am kind of lazy. Say put some kind of junction on the washing machine cold water source? I could then simply run a hose to a float valve or something. Not sure if this is making sense. Seems very very easy in my mind.

IF this makes sense help me with a parts list for the plumbing?

I am thinking a junction for the water valve. A hose. Something like this. https://www.amazon.com/Laguna-PT1842-Pond-Float-Valve/dp/B001BOBOC2/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1469988971&sr=8-16&keywords=float+valve

I could easily adjust the water pressure if too much with a spicket valve from home depot. I could attach that cheap valve into the gutter. When the water got low it would kick on. For about 30$ I could easily run this into the evap cooler. (in my mind at least) The problem is if i leave there really is no failsafe and i would have a flood on my hands

[MarkAz]

bro i understand the concept of the plumbing now thanks so much for explaining it. only problem now is that i am in a new place is finding this water line. This is going to be a nightmare and could take days?

heheh, if there's one thing I've learned about mining, is you end up having to learn about everything else to do it - plumbing, electrical, cooling, etc.  But that's also what makes it fun! 

Is there something simpler i could do? I dont like going on hunts and am kind of lazy. Say put some kind of junction on the washing machine cold water source? I could then simply run a hose to a float valve or something. Not sure if this is making sense. Seems very very easy in my mind.

IF this makes sense help me with a parts list for the plumbing?

Absolutely - it just needs to be anywhere you've already got water - and your laundry room is definitely a good candidate.  You could literally just the exact item I linked to for that, as I'm pretty sure that's the same hookup that a laundry machine has - and usually you have a cutoff valve right by the machine, so it would just go between the cutoff valve and your washing machine.  Assuming your garage or where-ever you're mining shares a wall with your laundry room, then I would just put a small access hole through the wall and pass that water line to your reservoir.  For the float, use something like this (the one you linked to is a bit low quality, I generally try to use all brass parts whenever possible):

http://amzn.to/2anlEaC

And here's some generic 1/4" tubing:

http://amzn.to/2an1Mui

Get some generic bucket like this (cheaper to just pick up at Home Depot):

http://amzn.to/2anlIqR

For a pump, literally all the ones I've used were like this one:

http://amzn.to/2aJrKEX

So figure this goes in the bucket, the water goes maybe 2-3" deep, you have another hose that is 'overflow', at about this level, and have this hose go to a drain somewhere.  This will make sure you're good to go in case the float fails for some reason.  The put the float about at the 3.5" level, and adjust the float so it stops at the right level relative to the pump.  If you want to get REALLY tricky, then if you build a bigger system, then some design purge pumps in also.  So these are like a second pump like the first, and it runs maybe once every 24 hours or so, and it basically pumps all the water out of the reservoir and into your overflow valve.  So this flushes all the water and makes sure you always have fresh water and ideally less contaminants than you might have otherwise.  This dump cycle can be set to longer, like every 48 hours if you feel like it doesn't need it, or more often, like every 6 hours - it's up to you.  I have my purge cycle set at 24 hours,  and it still barely shows up on the water bill.

So buying better parts you're going to be over the $30, but really it will be $60 or so, so not much more.  You also have to get the evap media; PortaCool is one of my favorites - and I like the kind that's made from basically cardboard:

https://www.grainger.com/product/PORTACOOL-PORTACOOL-Residential-Commercial-WP5248201/_/N-1z0ccqo?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/1K543_AS01?$smthumb$

You can get whatever size works best, and these filters will last for a LONG time (like years), they're not like air filters for your air handler.  The thicker you get, the more static pressure the fans will need to pull air through, and the better the cooling performance, although you'll never really get more than static bulb with a traditional evap.  You can experiment with cheaper media if you're so inclined, but I've either found they don't last as long, or they're a huge mess, so I just stick with this.  You also can sometimes find some great deals on excess on Craigslist if you stalk that...

[ChineseSavior]

bro i understand the concept of the plumbing now thanks so much for explaining it. only problem now is that i am in a new place is finding this water line. This is going to be a nightmare and could take days?

heheh, if there's one thing I've learned about mining, is you end up having to learn about everything else to do it - plumbing, electrical, cooling, etc.  But that's also what makes it fun! 

Is there something simpler i could do? I dont like going on hunts and am kind of lazy. Say put some kind of junction on the washing machine cold water source? I could then simply run a hose to a float valve or something. Not sure if this is making sense. Seems very very easy in my mind.

IF this makes sense help me with a parts list for the plumbing?

Absolutely - it just needs to be anywhere you've already got water - and your laundry room is definitely a good candidate.  You could literally just the exact item I linked to for that, as I'm pretty sure that's the same hookup that a laundry machine has - and usually you have a cutoff valve right by the machine, so it would just go between the cutoff valve and your washing machine.  Assuming your garage or where-ever you're mining shares a wall with your laundry room, then I would just put a small access hole through the wall and pass that water line to your reservoir.  For the float, use something like this (the one you linked to is a bit low quality, I generally try to use all brass parts whenever possible):

http://amzn.to/2anlEaC

And here's some generic 1/4" tubing:

http://amzn.to/2an1Mui

Get some generic bucket like this (cheaper to just pick up at Home Depot):

http://amzn.to/2anlIqR

For a pump, literally all the ones I've used were like this one:

http://amzn.to/2aJrKEX

So figure this goes in the bucket, the water goes maybe 2-3" deep, you have another hose that is 'overflow', at about this level, and have this hose go to a drain somewhere.  This will make sure you're good to go in case the float fails for some reason.  The put the float about at the 3.5" level, and adjust the float so it stops at the right level relative to the pump.  If you want to get REALLY tricky, then if you build a bigger system, then some design purge pumps in also.  So these are like a second pump like the first, and it runs maybe once every 24 hours or so, and it basically pumps all the water out of the reservoir and into your overflow valve.  So this flushes all the water and makes sure you always have fresh water and ideally less contaminants than you might have otherwise.  This dump cycle can be set to longer, like every 48 hours if you feel like it doesn't need it, or more often, like every 6 hours - it's up to you.  I have my purge cycle set at 24 hours,  and it still barely shows up on the water bill.

So buying better parts you're going to be over the $30, but really it will be $60 or so, so not much more.  You also have to get the evap media; PortaCool is one of my favorites - and I like the kind that's made from basically cardboard:

https://www.grainger.com/product/PORTACOOL-PORTACOOL-Residential-Commercial-WP5248201/_/N-1z0ccqo?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/1K543_AS01?$smthumb$

You can get whatever size works best, and these filters will last for a LONG time (like years), they're not like air filters for your air handler.  The thicker you get, the more static pressure the fans will need to pull air through, and the better the cooling performance, although you'll never really get more than static bulb with a traditional evap.  You can experiment with cheaper media if you're so inclined, but I've either found they don't last as long, or they're a huge mess, so I just stick with this.  You also can sometimes find some great deals on excess on Craigslist if you stalk that...

this is becoming a great thread.

I actually had my eye on theses. They are cheaper. honestly tho i think im going to get lucky weather-wise and be able to skip this, this year

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BO76OS/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A27BUQSY3E84IP

they are a bit cheaper but also thinner. I dont think it matters much considering im using shtty box fans LOL

[MarkAz]

this is becoming a great thread.

I actually had my eye on theses. They are cheaper. honestly tho i think im going to get lucky weather-wise and be able to skip this, this year

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BO76OS/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A27BUQSY3E84IP

they are a bit cheaper but also thinner. I dont think it matters much considering im using shtty box fans LOL

Actually, the media matters much more than the fan - the simple rule of thumb is the thicker the better - if you look at commercial systems (large scale ones), they're several inches thick.  The thickness just gives more surface area for the water to evaporate, so therefore greater cooling VOLUME - it won't necessarily cool air more than a 1/2" media, but let's say a 1" media would cool 2x the volume of air.  In practical terms, your box fan may move more air than 1/2" media can cool optimally - in which case having a 1" one would actually be a better match.  Either way, getting a cheap pad is fine for getting a feel for how it all works, but for production I would advise buying better (it saves you more in the long run).  And I would reiterate looking on Craigslist locally - if you're in a place where evap is viable, then there will be tons of places selling it, and normally the shipping kind of kills the online deals.

Even if you think you're dogging the bullet this year - I would highly recommend taking the time to play around and build a small scale system right now, that way if/when you need it, you already know how all the parts work and what generally is going to be involved.  Saves lots of headaches and lost mining time - believe me.