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Author Topic: [ANN] [ETC] Ethereum Classic: Immutable Smart Contracts (unmoderated)  (Read 1499 times)
Yaremi
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July 29, 2016, 10:26:39 PM
 #1

This copy of self-moderated topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1559630.0

Ethereum Classic is a project to keep the original censorship-resistant, immutable, decentralized Ethereum

Developers will be building on our immutable chain, are you ready? Code is law.




Community

http://www.ethereumclassic.org

http://ethcwiki.org/

https://github.com/ethereumproject
https://github.com/ethereumclassic

https://www.reddit.com/r/EthereumClassic/

https://ethereumclassic.herokuapp.com/

https://telegram.me/ethclassic
https://telegram.me/ethereumclassic

https://twitter.com/ethereumclassic

QQ Groups: 361470220 - 568474359

Russian
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1563268
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1563328
https://ethclassic.ru

Indonesian
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1563400

There are no bounties at this time


Exchanges

https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_etc

https://poloniex.com/exchange#usdt_etc

https://poloniex.com/exchange#eth_etc

https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ETC

https://www.kraken.com

https://www.bitfinex.com

https://c-cex.com/?p=etc-btc

https://shapeshift.io

https://bitsquare.io

https://www.bitwa.la

https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Exchange/?market=ETC_BTC

https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ETC24H

https://www.coinexchange.io/market/ETC/BTC

https://yobit.net/en/trade/ETC/BTC


Wallets and Explorers

https://github.com/ethereum/mist/releases
https://github.com/ethereum/mist/releases/download/0.8.1/Ethereum-Wallet-win64-0-8-1.zip Choose NO fork
You can't have the forked blockchain though. So if you already had this software you need to rename Mist and Ethereum in appdata to start fresh and choose no fork.

https://elaineo.github.io/etherwallet/

https://github.com/ethereumproject/go-ethereum/releases

http://coinmarketcap.com

https://www.cryptocompare.com/coins/etc/overview

http://polotrex.com

https://www.etc-eth.com

http://fork.ethstats.net

http://stats.ethc.io

http://www.etcminer.com

http://ethereumwisdom.com/#!/ethclassic

http://classic.aakilfernandes.com

http://explorer.ethereumclassic.com/

http://gastracker.io

https://minergate.com/blockchain/etc/blocks


Pools - I can't vouch for any though

https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/etc
https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/#/pools?f0=ETC

http://ethc.epool.io
http://pool.ethereumclassic.com
https://ethc.coin-miners.info
http://etc.nanopool.org
https://etcpool.io
https://etc.suprnova.cc
https://minergate.com
http://etc.coinpool.biz
http://www.ethteam.com
http://etc.poolto.be
http://yolo.ethclassic.faith
https://ethereum-classic.miningpoolhub.com
http://etc.coinpool.biz
https://www.coinotron.com
http://etc.digger.ws


Press

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/rejecting-today-s-hard-fork-the-ethereum-classic-project-continues-on-the-original-chain-here-s-why-1469038808

http://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2016/07/21/a-painful-lesson-for-the-ethereum-community/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2016/07/28/ethereum-the-battle-of-the-chains

http://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-hard-fork-creates-competing-currencies-support-ethereum-classic-rises/

https://medium.com/@zsfelfoldi/a-tale-of-two-chains-3f6d58a9df4a

https://medium.com/@Stampery/why-stampery-supports-ethereum-classic-4c86ec7cca17

https://steemit.com/ethereum/@cryptorune/a-ethereum-civil-war-is-happening-right-now-and-why-classic-should-win

https://ethereumheadlines.com/2016/07/25/ethereum-classic-is-now-trading-on-poloniex/

http://www.coindesk.com/tale-two-chains-ethereum/

http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/07/26/case-ethereum-classic/

https://steemit.com/dao/@gedae/the-dao-and-the-benefactors

http://themerkle.com/etc-trumps-ethereum-trading-volume-on-poloniex/

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@whalepanda/what-happened-with-ethereum-usdeth-and-ethereum-classic-usdetc


Ideology

We believe in decentralized, censorship-resistant, permissionless, IMMUTABLE blockchains. We believe in the original vision of Ethereum as a world computer you can't shut down, running irreversible smart contracts. We believe in a strong separation of concerns, where system forks are only possible in order to correct actual platform bugs, not to bail out failed contracts and special interests. We believe in censorship-resistant platform that can be actually trusted - by anyone. Code is law.

More: https://medium.com/@bit_novosti/a-crypto-decentralist-manifesto-6ba1fa0b9ede


Motivation

Ethereum Foundation responded to DAO debacle in the worst way possible. Special interests controlling the Foundation are ramming through DAO bailout hardfork against principled opposition of a significant economic minority of Ethereum stakeholders. According to (diligently hidden, pro-fork) coin vote on Carbonvote, 19% of ETH holders oppose this hardfork. Also, about 22% of Ethereum miners voted against the previous 'DAO softfork' and would logically oppose hardfork as well. Such a significant minority of stakeholders should not be silenced or intimidated into submission - they should be given a clear choice.

If we want to continue to move forward and guarantee survival of the original Ethereum vision, we must fork Ethereum. This will lay the foundation to build secure decentralized applications that are actually censorship resistant.

More: https://github.com/ethereumclassic/freeworldcomputer-project


Goals

The main goal of the project is to ensure survival of the original Ethereum blockchain. We will strive to provide alternative for people who strongly disagree with DAO bailout and the direction Ethereum Foundation is taking their project. Anyone opting to remain on the original chain should have such opportunity.


Development

We fork Ethereum and maintain upstream patches similar to the relation between Redhat and CentOS, until a community can form around the project and create a road map. Until this happens we can fork multiple existing clients to help prevent a monoculture of clients. We plan to follow https://github.com/ethereum development except for any features they introduce into existing clients that violate the key principles of openness, neutrality and immutability.

Code: https://github.com/ethereumclassic


What can I do?

Please help us spread the word about this project in Ethereum community!


Volunteers

If you feel strongly about the cause, please get involved. With just days before the planned hardfork, we need your support to ensure original Ethereum survival. We need more developers, website designers, people who can write and advocate the need for Ethereum Classic. Please let us know what are your skills and how you would like to contribute. Redditors, please reply here. Github users, please open new issue.


Users

In order to remain on the original Ethereum chain, just don't upgrade to hardfork client version pushed by Ethereum Foundation. We will maintain non-fork versions of all major Ethereum clients (as well as other key software), so going forwards all the improvements will be available to you.

Fun fact. If you keep ETH under your direct control (not in a 3rd party wallet or exchange account), you will have two sets of coins instead of one post-fork. You could then install a forked Ethereum client in addition to Ethereum Classic, copy your private keys there and use your coins on both chains! You won't be so lucky if your ETH are locked with 3rd party going into the fork - some exchanges already announced that they will only return one type of coin post-fork to its users.


Miners

Miners supporting the original chain should just keep mining with current version of software for now, without upgrading to client version introducing the hardfork code. It will be always possible to download and build latest non-fork version from https://github.com/ethereumclassic.

The difficulty of the original chain will be quite high post-fork, but it will adjust to actual hashrate shortly (just 2048 blocks, a few hours). Since it is expected that most hashrate will move to hardfoked chain, post-adjustment it will be possible to obtain decent mining rewards in classic ethers even with solo mining.

Because the difficulty adjusts quickly, it will be also quite possible to solo mine soon after the fork. If you intend to mine Ethereum Classic, please don't upgrade to geth 1.4.10 just yet, due to potential vulnerability. We will inform you when it's safe to upgrade. For now, just solo-mine with geth 1.4.9 or any earlier version, or use Classic pool.


Traders

https://bitsquare.io/

Most important question for traders is 'will ETHC have market price'? There are all reasons to believe that it will. Essentially, ETHC is an Ethereum 'spinoff coin' with a wide user base of all current ETH users. Some of them will see the value of transacting on a censorship-resistant chain, some won't. This creates interesting arbitrage opportunities for smart traders. Additional reasoning why EHTC is very unlikely to be 'worthless'.

Both Poloniex a Bitfinex announced that they will assign their users both ETH and ETHC after the fork. This is a step in the right direction, now it's up to these major exchanges to enable ETH/ETHC trading that will no doubt be demanded by users. Decentralized exchange Bitsquare announced ETHC trading right after the fork. Other trading venues will follow since there is a strong business case. We are in touch with several other exchanges to add ETHC trading to their platforms. If your exchange is interested in ETHC trading, please contact us.

Let's make sure original Ethereum vision doesn't just "go gentle into that good night"!


https://github.com/ethereumclassic/README

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July 29, 2016, 10:28:01 PM
 #2

This copy of self-moderated topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1559630.0

Unmoderated Wink Be free with you are thoughts!

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July 29, 2016, 10:32:31 PM
 #3

Copy of remove post:

livecoin


ETHEREUM CLASSIC NEWS
Created 30.07.2016 00:38
Dear clients, when the Ethereum Classic (hereinafter ETC) appeared on the market, we announced that we were going to add it with ETC deposit to our customers’ accounts. But when we started working on integration, we encountered an unpleasant surprise. Because of the ETC architecture particularities and its direct relation with the genuine Ethereum (ETH), the transactions between these two coins are connected in one way or another. This relation is neither expected nor common practice in cryptocurrency.

When we adjusted the ETC in test mode, we found that we had no funds in ETC, since the transactions in ETH and ETC are associated and funds had been withdrawn by our clients in the process of normal deposit-withdrawn of ETH, we assume that it was sent to Poloniex, because at that time, trading on ETC occured only there.

Going forward we examined the situation in detail and came to the conclusion that either the ETC developers or Poloniex had to take over at least a minimum function of notifying all the other exchanges trading ETH to protect their ETC funds from loss. The quantity of such exchanges is not so high, no more than 15. We believe that to send 15 warning letters was quite capable. We have not received any notification concerning protection of funds in the ETC from anyone. We do not believe it is a fair way of doing business from the side of the ETC developers, and from the exchange, which was first to put in the ETC trades.

At the moment we may add trading pairs with ETC, but we do not see any sense in this as all the ETC funds are already withdrawn by our clients who have been aware of this network features. In addition, according to our opinion, due to the relation of blockchains with ETC and ETH there is a risk of fraudulent manipulations, and we are not willing to risk our clients’ accounts.


Quote
Going forward we examined the situation in detail and came to the conclusion that either the ETC developers or Poloniex had to take over at least a minimum function of notifying all the other exchanges trading ETH to protect their ETC funds from loss

because ETC devs scammers. Big - to ETC devs karma.

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July 29, 2016, 10:35:21 PM
 #4

this is my new favorite shitcoin

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July 29, 2016, 10:39:52 PM
 #5

Maybe i am fool? But i am dont understand this:


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July 29, 2016, 11:08:36 PM
 #6

So exchanges who stole people's etc are calling etc a scam?

Reputation  |  PGP  |  DigitalOcean  |  TorGuard  |  Ethereum Classic
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July 29, 2016, 11:12:58 PM
 #7

So exchanges who stole people's etc are calling etc a scam?

No. exchanges calling DEVs stole ETC. Read news be the brain. Not be ass Wink

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July 29, 2016, 11:16:28 PM
 #8

So exchanges who stole people's etc are calling etc a scam?

No. exchanges calling DEVs stole ETC. Read news be the brain. Not be ass Wink



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July 29, 2016, 11:20:28 PM
 #9

Unmoderated thread ≠ immutable blockchain what are you smoking? Nice troll driveby though. I'm sure that those that don't know the difference between a thread and a blockchain will be all behind you! :rolleyes:

Exchanges blaming ETC for lost coins are stealing those coins or are so inept they should not be running exchanges, you can choose which category they fall under. There is no Third one.

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July 29, 2016, 11:23:40 PM
 #10

Bitcoin will have smartcontract and more soon.

ETC this shit created to take away you are Bitcoins! Do not change Bitcoins to classic! And ETH to. why? because ETH its for banks and corporations. And maybe in the future ETH will be expensive. So if you want sell ETH. Sell to bitcoin. Dont buy this shit!!!

We have real crypto now. Its btc. ETH its for banks and corporations. ETC its like 1000 shitcoins. Nothing Wink



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July 29, 2016, 11:25:40 PM
 #11

So why steal etc?

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July 29, 2016, 11:41:05 PM
 #12

So why steal etc?

Because ETC DEVs worked with Poloniex only. Another exchange??? This stupid move. Because another exchange dont know about ETC nothing. Exchange need time to add new coin. No one give this. Secretly, and suddenly Polo added and after this instantly started withdraws ETH from other exchange to polo. instantly! btc-e and other dont have time to stop this or to add ETC. Because no one notified. No devs. No polo.

This is no good move. and such steps are not credible. This is my IMHO. And you after this write. Oh this Btc-e/livecoin steal etc. Btc-e good old bitcoin exchange with good reputation.

But you write btc-e livecoin steal etc. You dont have any proof for this. I have proof. My proof this is TIME. Polo added ETC and instantly started withdraws ETH "boom" from other exchange to polo.

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July 29, 2016, 11:52:11 PM
 #13

All Ethereum Classic supporters are invited to an unmoderated discussion and support [ETM] Ethereus Maximalist - Fair Ethereum fork - A new beginning.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1568575


Ethereus Maximalist (ticker symbol ETM) will be spawned from the intentions of Ethereum Classic but in a purer fashion.  Unfortunately we cannot go back in time and replay actions so what’s done is done and this will launch as a fork of the current Ethereum network.

Ethereum Classic launched with many issues such as many people not knowing it would gather mining or exchange support.

Holders of Ethereum who had their ETH loaned out on exchanges such as Poloniex and Bitfinex were not eligible to receive ETC.

Many people held DAO tokens prior to the hard fork and were also unable to receive ETC.

Many exchanges such as Yunbi, Coinbase and BTC-E have suffered losses in ETC as they were not prepared for the launch, nor were they anticipating giving existing users ETC.  BTC-E has called Ethereum Classic a scam.

With a proper announcement and time to prepare we can solve this and mitigate any attack vectors.

Ethereus Maximalist will launch as a fork of the Ethereum blockchain at block 2,100,000.  That is the only criteria set forth and we anticipate a community, miner support and a development team to form organically from there.

Ethereus Maximalist will come with the following:

  • A fairly planned launch and fork.
  • Replay attack protection.
  • Sufficient time for a code proposal to come from the community and for a development team to form.
  • Less market manipulation through a planned outcome.
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July 30, 2016, 12:08:51 AM
 #14

Kraken, bitfinex, poloniex and bittrex had no issues

Just scammers livecoin, btce and coinbase

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July 30, 2016, 12:33:03 AM
 #15

So why steal etc?

Because ETC DEVs worked with Poloniex only. Another exchange??? This stupid move. Because another exchange dont know about ETC nothing. Exchange need time to add new coin. No one give this. Secretly, and suddenly Polo added and after this instantly started withdraws ETH from other exchange to polo. instantly! btc-e and other dont have time to stop this or to add ETC. Because no one notified. No devs. No polo.

This is no good move. and such steps are not credible. This is my IMHO. And you after this write. Oh this Btc-e/livecoin steal etc. Btc-e good old bitcoin exchange with good reputation.

But you write btc-e livecoin steal etc. You dont have any proof for this. I have proof. My proof this is TIME. Polo added ETC and instantly started withdraws ETH "boom" from other exchange to polo.

The replay issue was known weeks BEFORE the fork, The ETH devs knew about it, but did not have time to implement a proper fork because they had to rescue their fiends funds from more dev incompetence .

Some exchanges even delisted it before the fork due the known issue.

Im not sure how an exchange can not do a simple code review of the hardfork, if you even bothered to look at the code you would clearly see the was not protocol or tx updates to prevent this.

Also blaming this on the coin that DID NOT fork it ridiculous, ETH created this mess, yet you blame ETC.


Nearly every exchange has managed to handle both forks except maybe 3 run but incompetent developers/operators







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July 30, 2016, 01:04:40 AM
 #16

Copy of remove post:

livecoin


ETHEREUM CLASSIC NEWS
Created 30.07.2016 00:38
Dear clients, when the Ethereum Classic (hereinafter ETC) appeared on the market, we announced that we were going to add it with ETC deposit to our customers’ accounts. But when we started working on integration, we encountered an unpleasant surprise. Because of the ETC architecture particularities and its direct relation with the genuine Ethereum (ETH), the transactions between these two coins are connected in one way or another. This relation is neither expected nor common practice in cryptocurrency.

When we adjusted the ETC in test mode, we found that we had no funds in ETC, since the transactions in ETH and ETC are associated and funds had been withdrawn by our clients in the process of normal deposit-withdrawn of ETH, we assume that it was sent to Poloniex, because at that time, trading on ETC occured only there.

Going forward we examined the situation in detail and came to the conclusion that either the ETC developers or Poloniex had to take over at least a minimum function of notifying all the other exchanges trading ETH to protect their ETC funds from loss. The quantity of such exchanges is not so high, no more than 15. We believe that to send 15 warning letters was quite capable. We have not received any notification concerning protection of funds in the ETC from anyone. We do not believe it is a fair way of doing business from the side of the ETC developers, and from the exchange, which was first to put in the ETC trades.

At the moment we may add trading pairs with ETC, but we do not see any sense in this as all the ETC funds are already withdrawn by our clients who have been aware of this network features. In addition, according to our opinion, due to the relation of blockchains with ETC and ETH there is a risk of fraudulent manipulations, and we are not willing to risk our clients’ accounts.


Quote
Going forward we examined the situation in detail and came to the conclusion that either the ETC developers or Poloniex had to take over at least a minimum function of notifying all the other exchanges trading ETH to protect their ETC funds from loss

because ETC devs scammers. Big - to ETC devs karma.

No, that's because the exchange is incompetent. At the time of the fork there weren't even any "ETC devs" in existence, it was ETH devs who devised the fork the way they did.

Competent exchanges knew what was happening and did it properly. Incompetent ones will be looking for someone to blame.

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July 30, 2016, 02:05:05 AM
 #17

Kraken, bitfinex, poloniex and bittrex had no issues

Just scammers livecoin, btce and coinbase

There were definitely issues with ETC, Poloniex added it without notice and had to freaking patch the vulnerability in their system, that ALL deposited ETH got split in ETC and ETH. Kraken added it and didn't even have a withdrawal option. And now Bitpop's account managed by who knows, calling out established exchanges as 'scammers' is a big give away. Gamble your BTC for a quick win or steer clear from this obvious money grab.
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August 06, 2016, 08:58:07 AM
 #18

@iCEBREAKER - Ive watched your posts (on the other thread) and you have some good wisdom and ideas here - you have experience which many if not most here do not unfortunately - but ignore the flack from @green whatever it is. As if their personal situation should guide the future of ETC? This community should pay you MUCH more attention.

Just for the record

This community member favours POS - yes straight out POS

I could live with SHA256/POS

Forget hybrid POW, continuing daggerhasi...fork once and get it right.

KISS principle - keep it simple STUPID

My suggestions
- POS has security and enables scale-ability (like 3sec blocks plus ETH version of Lightening Network - Raiden) - it also directly draws from ETH work which takes heat of the poor few ETC devs who will be going mad trying to keep up if there is significant divergence
- POW SHA256 will get mass adoption - and its nuts and bolts to swap (and its a world away from ETH) - the security provided by SHA256 adoption should not be underestimated.


Register this please - POS for ETC going forward - thats my vote. I don't care if you disagree - we will debate in detail further down the track when things are clearer.

Yes -  I am a miner (SHA256 and other algos - whatever that pays the best at the time) but I consider that the horizon is close to sunset on this infernal waste of resources to support a coin. Most miners do not have cheap/free power and most electricity is NOT surplus or sustainable. 5 years from now POW will be dead IMO unless China continues to prop up miners and centralise things further.

POS is the future IMO


                                                   
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greenuser
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Marie Curie, 2 x Nobel Prizes Physics & Chemistry


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August 06, 2016, 01:52:06 PM
 #19

A Money Grab By Mist Wallet Developers?
http://themerkle.com/mist-developers-deliberately-use-shapeshift-affiliate-link-for-etc-transactions/

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