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Author Topic: Shouldnt we be funding/supporting a mesh network ?  (Read 1491 times)
CharlesPonzi
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March 27, 2013, 02:06:52 AM
 #1

In case the internet goes down or becomes controlled in some way there should be a backup comprised of small repeaters and transmitters that are easily hidden and cheap.

One of the arguments against bitcoin adoption is that it is pointless in the case where the internet is down.

This may need an economic incentive built in somehow.


http://www.servalproject.org/  maybe combined with this on an android phone. A small bitcoin node that doubles as its own mesh node.

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March 27, 2013, 02:15:37 AM
 #2

I would think this would be useful in poor, densely populated cities.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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March 27, 2013, 02:43:03 AM
 #3

Satellite internet Cheesy
RATM69
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March 27, 2013, 02:51:48 AM
 #4

Mesh network app for phones that be cool. If you didn't have "unlimited" services on your phone your probably wouldn't want to participate though. It may not even be possible since it's outside the scope of my brain. Not real sure what it would take to accomplish this.
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March 27, 2013, 03:44:21 AM
 #5

A small bitcoin node that doubles as its own mesh node.

Or a small mesh node that doubles as a bitcoin node:
 - https://commons.thefnf.org/index.php/FreedomNode

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shamaniotastook
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March 27, 2013, 10:02:42 PM
 #6

don't mean to rain on your parade, but the fact is that the Internet is indeed the largest mesh network even possible and to propose a 'supporting' network is almost ludicrous, because by definition, such a network would simply become an extension of the network. in fact, there is NO WAY that bitcoin itself could operate without the Internet....again, setting up a 'second' or 'supporting' Internet is not really technically correct way to see it, because by definition this 'extension' or 'supporting' network would simply be another part of the Internet.

anyway, you can't really create an 'internet' backup, and your question demonstrates you don't really know how the Internet works, or what it means. I'm just trying to help clarify so you don't waste years on a dream that is fruitless. The Internet is just that INTER-NET, it's not just one network, but literally millions or billions of nets all tied together, and even the BitCoin network is just another extension. amazing right, when you really stop to think about it.
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March 27, 2013, 10:21:27 PM
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don't mean to rain on your parade, but the fact is that the Internet is indeed the largest mesh network even possible and to propose a 'supporting' network is almost ludicrous, because by definition, such a network would simply become an extension of the network. in fact, there is NO WAY that bitcoin itself could operate without the Internet....again, setting up a 'second' or 'supporting' Internet is not really technically correct way to see it, because by definition this 'extension' or 'supporting' network would simply be another part of the Internet.

anyway, you can't really create an 'internet' backup, and your question demonstrates you don't really know how the Internet works, or what it means. I'm just trying to help clarify so you don't waste years on a dream that is fruitless. The Internet is just that INTER-NET, it's not just one network, but literally millions or billions of nets all tied together, and even the BitCoin network is just another extension. amazing right, when you really stop to think about it.
Actually, it's pretty clear that you're the one who doesn't know how the internet works nor what a mesh network is.
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March 27, 2013, 10:24:12 PM
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don't mean to rain on your parade, but the fact is that the Internet is indeed the largest mesh network even possible and to propose a 'supporting' network is almost ludicrous, because by definition, such a network would simply become an extension of the network. in fact, there is NO WAY that bitcoin itself could operate without the Internet....again, setting up a 'second' or 'supporting' Internet is not really technically correct way to see it, because by definition this 'extension' or 'supporting' network would simply be another part of the Internet.

anyway, you can't really create an 'internet' backup, and your question demonstrates you don't really know how the Internet works, or what it means. I'm just trying to help clarify so you don't waste years on a dream that is fruitless. The Internet is just that INTER-NET, it's not just one network, but literally millions or billions of nets all tied together, and even the BitCoin network is just another extension. amazing right, when you really stop to think about it.
Actually, it's pretty clear that you're the one who doesn't know how the internet works nor what a mesh network is.

Or that bitcoin can work without the Internet.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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March 27, 2013, 10:25:23 PM
 #9

I'll just leave this here....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159617.0

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
shamaniotastook
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March 28, 2013, 12:18:34 AM
 #10

I'm not talking about 'The Web'

I'm talking about the Internet...seriously, maybe you have some secret knowledge i'm not aware of, but what are you going to overlay 'your' particular flavor of mesh onto?

what's the difference between the Internet and an Intranet? how are mesh topologies accomplished in an enterprise, using which communication protocol stacks, etc., and even remote db access, etc., all over INTERNET PROTOCOLS

whatever...yeah, i'm the idiot...bitcoin doesn't need the internet, you all have it all figured out! ha! have fun with your meshes boys.
shamaniotastook
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March 28, 2013, 12:19:42 AM
 #11

one more thing...how's your 'mesh' going to connect a merchant in chicago to a buyer in australia?
MoonShadow
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March 28, 2013, 01:02:06 AM
 #12

Newbs!

Bitcoin doesn't require internet access to transact, but it does require a connection.  A packet radio connection, or modem connection over ham radio would work fine for spending.  It wouldn't work as well for mining.

BTW, I wasn't talking about the "web" either.  Try reading a bit more before you display your ignorance, please.

EDIT:  A pair of android based bitcoin apps connected across a piratebox (http://wiki.daviddarts.com/PirateBox_DIY) and two people can transact in meatspace miles from a working 3G signal.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
MoonShadow
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March 28, 2013, 01:05:31 AM
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I'm talking about the Internet...seriously, maybe you have some secret knowledge i'm not aware of, but what are you going to overlay 'your' particular flavor of mesh onto?


Nothing.  We're talking about backup infrastructure for bitcoin.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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March 28, 2013, 01:07:40 AM
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Slightly related. I wonder what happened to this project : http://vimeo.com/40711689
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March 28, 2013, 01:09:11 AM
 #15

Slightly related. I wonder what happened to this project : http://vimeo.com/40711689

It's been a couple of months since I last email those guys, but last I checked, they claim that they are still only a couple months away from release.

I've grown accustomed to disapointment.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
shamaniotastook
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March 28, 2013, 01:23:53 AM
 #16

it really isn't worth arguing, but just one more question and then i'll leave it alone...how long you think you're power will be on if the 'Internet' fails? again, i should just shut up, but talking about proposing any network to simply act as a 'backup' for the internet just doesn't make sense in my world...but who knows what works in your world...
CharlesPonzi
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March 28, 2013, 01:28:15 AM
 #17


I'm talking about the Internet...seriously, maybe you have some secret knowledge i'm not aware of, but what are you going to overlay 'your' particular flavor of mesh onto?


Nothing.  We're talking about backup infrastructure for bitcoin.

Moonshadow is correct.

I landed in this country with $2.50 in cash and $1 million in hopes, and those hopes never left me.
CharlesPonzi
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March 28, 2013, 01:30:55 AM
 #18

it really isn't worth arguing, but just one more question and then i'll leave it alone...how long you think you're power will be on if the 'Internet' fails? again, i should just shut up, but talking about proposing any network to simply act as a 'backup' for the internet just doesn't make sense in my world...but who knows what works in your world...

You dont have a solar array and/or a generator in case your power goes out ?


newb.


I landed in this country with $2.50 in cash and $1 million in hopes, and those hopes never left me.
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March 28, 2013, 01:37:13 AM
 #19

on Molecular's suggestion regarding a amateur packet radio setup, I wonder how many individuals there are in the wild with those capabilities?

I actually am a ham operator, and have a packet terminal and radio's.. I have no idea how on earth I could try and get that to work with a bitcoin client though.
shamaniotastook
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March 28, 2013, 01:40:48 AM
 #20

honestly, if the Internet goes dark, i don't think anyone will be willing to trade anything of true value (e.g. food, water, medical supplies, alcohol, guns, tobacco, drugs, etc) for BTC, USD, gold, silver, nothing...and i dont' care if someone has a backup power supply or not, if the Internet goes down all hell breaks loose and even if you had 30kw generator and solar cells, food stocked to the nuts, everything...what good with BTC do you then? You going to whip out your mesh android and sell some beans and grits to mr. needy cause he has nothing but bitcoins?

the truth is, even the most die-hard doomsday survivalist is going to be strapped to even exist beyond a few months without infrastructure...too late to go back now, we're all globally interconnected and interdependent.

now i'm really done posting on this thread as i am messin' with all-ya-all's zen
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