Is it possible to sell a house?

[tvasconcelos]

Hi, i've been wondering... Is it possible to sell a house for BTC ?

I have 2 houses, bought way back, when the market was all about facilitating credit and such. In face of the crisis, i've had some very fuc.. up times. I'm better now, the payments are stable, and i'm starting to stable my accounts too. I live in Portugal, the real estate market is dead, so no one is buying, or the one's that are buying are making the deals of their lives. People are desperate and the ones that have the money are buying really cheap.

I tried to sell one of my houses a few years back, but no been able to get a reasonable deal. People have to go to the bank to get credit and all they got was a kick in the ass. Thought of having an auction, or a lottery to sell the house (people have done it here), the thing is, if you want it to be legal, and don't have taxes officers knocking on your door, you have to pay 30% of what you make on the lottery to the government. Thieves in suits...

So was it possible to say, sell my house for bitcoins (an agreed amount), and then for what taxes are worth i'd sell the house for a symbolic price, let's say €100?

Sorry i don't know the technical words for this...

[greyhawk]

Sorry i don't know the technical words for this...

failed tax evasion

[Bogart]

Consult with a real estate attorney for a definitive answer.  I suspect that it is indeed possible.

I've seen deeds written as "for the price of $10 and other valuable consideration".

[kpriess]

Sorry i don't know the technical words for this...

failed tax evasion

It's not his problem he's being taxed based on fiat..

[greyhawk]

Sorry i don't know the technical words for this...

failed tax evasion

It's not his problem he's being taxed based on fiat..

Yeah, you gotta wonder how all these states go bankrupt.

[ForceField]

What if you accept BTC for it and claim it as a "Gift" / Donation?

[Bogart]

Here's land for sale:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155237.0

[DeathAndTaxes]

Sure if the buyer doesn't mind getting the house with a basis of $100.  Of course when he sells the house in a few years for $500,000 and can't find a sucker willing to offload his tax liability his liability becomes ($500,000 sale price - $100 purchase price ) = $499,990 gain. 

Essentially your "tax free" isn't free the buyer is just an idiot willing to pay your taxes and his taxes.  Note you don't need Bitcoin to do this.  You could do it with cash or any other valuable just as easily (gold, car, etc).

[tvasconcelos]

@greyhawk: Yes, good thing the US is not bankrupt... and also has nothing to do with the current debt crisis!! Then again, can you explain to me why should the government take from 8 to 44.5% on half of the profit i make selling MY house? Did they lend me the money?? NO! Did they help with the payments? NO! And it's not tax evasion... I still sell the house for €100 (€1000/€5000 whatever i should want) and pay my taxes over that. BTW how do i declare BTC in my tax papers? Is there a new tax form for BTC? Do YOU declare your BTC? Do you declare the ones you sell? The one's you buy? Please don't give me this BS moralist talk about tax evasion. And WTF do you know about countries (states... as you so wisely called them) in bankrupt?

Why should it be received as a gift? Can't i own BTC? Hell, does anyone give a fu.. ? Does anyone even know what it is? I wasn´t planning on cashing out those BTC immediately, at leats not all...  

@deathandtaxes: That's the kind of answer i was looking. haven't thought about that. Your absolutely right... So it would have to be a compromise with the buyer and the owner to come to a value they both agreed, right? That was fair for both. Can i just deal in BTC, and have the house transfered to the buyer? (this i think is not that simple)

[salty]

If I was buying your house for BTC I would insist on having a piece of countersigned and witnessed paper stating:

(seller name) sold (property name) to (buyer name) for (btc price) at a market exchange rate of (fiat mt.gox rate) on (date)

I would definitely be making this statement available to my tax office at the appropriate time, so you would be risking trouble if you tried not declaring it. I don't think you'd find anybody willing to make such a significant purchase without getting something similar in writing.

[EricTyle]

If I was buying your house for BTC I would insist on having a piece of countersigned and witnessed paper stating:

(seller name) sold (property name) to (buyer name) for (btc price) at a market exchange rate of (fiat mt.gox rate) on (date)

I would definitely be making this statement available to my tax office at the appropriate time, so you would be risking trouble if you tried not declaring it. I don't think you'd find anybody willing to make such a significant purchase without getting something similar in writing.

Fucking A++++++ post

What people aren't taking into consideration is that bitcoins DONT have to be anonymous and under the table. You can publicly say you bought something for however much.

[greyhawk]

And WTF do you know about countries (states... as you so wisely called them) in bankrupt?

I know I pay to bail them out all day every day. What with me being German and all, y'know?

[tvasconcelos]

Yeah...i know!!
Those stupid 3rd world countries, right? They take your money? I believe those countries are paying, with interest, the "loans"!! It seems that Germany is getting richer in the middle of the crysis...that's odd, shouldn't you be poor fellows that are paying for PIGS?!!
And by the way, how on earth is supposed to be a european union if there's no union? there shouldn't be a germany, or a spain, or any other country... there should be an european union, right? you are buying these countries, Portugal, Greece, Spain, Italy. And you don't want to pay?!? WTF?! That's a great business!! What if these countries left the euro?? where would you be? fuc.ed !!! The thing is, you need the PIGS, and that's why you are LOANING money at ultra high interest rates. You will get your money, and half the countries too!! and own the people, and get your cheap workforce... that's what you are doing. Cheap workforce for the EU.

Also, you are bailing banks out... not countries!! You're not giving money to me, that's for sure. In fact i never asked for nothing... it was imposed to us by... guess what... germany!! I'm paying the highest taxes in EU, have 10% unemployment, it is getting worse every month, next year it's going to be a complete disaster.

So my big thanks to you!! For "bailing me out all day, every day".


ps: by you i mean your country. no personal attack, ok?

[infested999]

Yeah...i know!!
Those stupid 3rd world countries, right? They take your money? I believe those countries are paying, with interest, the "loans"!! It seems that Germany is getting richer in the middle of the crysis...that's odd, shouldn't you be poor fellows that are paying for PIGS?!!
And by the way, how on earth is supposed to be a european union if there's no union? there shouldn't be a germany, or a spain, or any other country... there should be an european union, right? you are buying these countries, Portugal, Greece, Spain, Italy. And you don't want to pay?!? WTF?! That's a great business!! What if these countries left the euro?? where would you be? fuc.ed !!! The thing is, you need the PIGS, and that's why you are LOANING money at ultra high interest rates. You will get your money, and half the countries too!! and own the people, and get your cheap workforce... that's what you are doing. Cheap workforce for the EU.

Also, you are bailing banks out... not countries!! You're not giving money to me, that's for sure. In fact i never asked for nothing... it was imposed to us by... guess what... germany!! I'm paying the highest taxes in EU, have 10% unemployment, it is getting worse every month, next year it's going to be a complete disaster.

So my big thanks to you!! For "bailing me out all day, every day".


ps: by you i mean your country. no personal attack, ok?

Germany is not benefiting anything from these loans. Those countries can never pay back the money they owe and Germany will never get their money back.

[tvasconcelos]

You think so? Well they are doing pretty good actually...

Just for some facts...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/economic-historian-germany-was-biggest-debt-transgressor-of-20th-century-a-769703.html

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2093990,00.html

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/1036242-brian-anderson/477211-germany-s-opinion-of-pig-debt


http://www.richdad.com/Resources/Rich-Dad-Financial-Education-Blog/April-2012/The-European-Debt-Crisis-in-1,000-Words.aspx

If the base for EU was charity, solidarity between members, well... there even should be a germany. or portugal, spain, etc... no nations. all was a part of the same, the european union. I guess that nationalist tendencies are stronger then that.