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Author Topic: Provably Fair for investors  (Read 633 times)
ralle14
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February 19, 2017, 10:08:55 AM
 #21

Anybody here know about vdice.io ? They have opened up ICO to distribute their vslice token which represents the share of any investors in vdice and profit is shared according to site profit and numbers of share. They also uses ETH smart contracts to roll the results, is there anyway they can also create fake player and make fake bet?  Huh
Yeah i've heard about them. If you read the thread that brewmaster shared, you can see rhavar's post he mentioned that vdice isn't even provably fair. The owners can make fake bets if they want there's no one stopping them.

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February 19, 2017, 11:11:06 AM
 #22

Tbh, I don't think it is the only concern that exists. For example if such a provably fair for investors existed, then even then casinos could bet and keep betting till they made profit due to the size of the bankroll or fake credits they can add to their own accounts. And by any chance if their fake account did end up losing, they could just hit n run, or fake a bigger amount since the bankroll would have increased as well.

Faking bets is another story, usually cold wallet where most of the bankroll is held has public address, so if game is provably fair for investors too, they can't do anything with fake bets, because if fake bet is lost they need to move money to the bankroll, and chances are the same as for regular players.

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February 19, 2017, 11:36:26 AM
 #23

Today almost all gambling sites feature Provably Fair system for their games. If you are not familiar with it, it is based on cryptographic hashes - the result of each bet is based on 2 seeds, one of each comes from the player side and the other from the house side. This system is used to verify that every bet was truly random without any manipulation from both sides.

The problem here is there's a third side involved in gambling - investors. They invest their money into casinos bankroll and share profit when players lose, or cover house's loses when players win. Now my concern is that investors don't have any control over seeds, so there's a potential for abuse by casino operators. They could simply create player account and make fake winnings, since they know both seeds, and by doing this they will be stealing investor funds without any way to prove it. Of course investors will start withdrawing their money if they will see losses over long term, but this scam could be even more subtle, for example living investors with profit, just smaller than they should have earned so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Considering all this, I think gambling sites should extend Provably Fair system to cover investor side.

Your concern is right and even a source of concern to every investors engaging in bankrolling. But as you rightly noted an investors coming in with his money knows that there is a risk of losing his money at the same time the player coming to wager his own money is also aware of the same risk. So they are all in the same shoe and should be happy about and I think the provably fair system is good for both parties that will be happy that even if I lose my money either as a gambler or investor, what matters is I lost fairly...

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February 19, 2017, 12:24:48 PM
 #24

How possible doing that one so? As you have stated probably fair came from a seed. That is obviously the casino does not handle right? well then if they can still manipulate it and make fake winnings the other players might be able to see it as you an investor as well.

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February 19, 2017, 12:43:01 PM
 #25

How possible doing that one so? As you have stated probably fair came from a seed. That is obviously the casino does not handle right? well then if they can still manipulate it and make fake winnings the other players might be able to see it as you an investor as well.

i'm also interested in this, how we can know that their system is really fair with our bet and not that there is a % of cheating in the long run maybe that can destroy our earning?, because if you think about it gamble should result onl in the loss of the edge of the home, otherwise the chance are only 50/50 between win and loss
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February 19, 2017, 12:48:59 PM
 #26

How possible doing that one so? As you have stated probably fair came from a seed. That is obviously the casino does not handle right? well then if they can still manipulate it and make fake winnings the other players might be able to see it as you an investor as well.
There are three variables which calculate the result of each roll
Serverseed - provided by the gambling site
Clientseed - provided by your browser and adjusted by you
Nonce - A number that increases with each bet you make

As owner know the serverseed he can change clientseed (browser based) till he can get a clientseed which can have 50x multiplier. He can calculate this using three of the variables he already know. So he can place big bets when he got that particular clientseed and can easily earn 50x while other players and investors will think one player got really lucky to have this. Nobody gonna suspect owner/player as he will also bet few other small bets like normal players after winning this big amount.

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February 19, 2017, 01:06:49 PM
 #27

Anybody here know about vdice.io ? They have opened up ICO to distribute their vslice token which represents the share of any investors in vdice and profit is shared according to site profit and numbers of share. They also uses ETH smart contracts to roll the results, is there anyway they can also create fake player and make fake bet?  Huh
Yeah seen it and they are doing a campaign now which pays vdice tokens also as a bonus.
You mean dummy users? What for? For more traffic or for gamblees to see some people are playing?
I dont think so.  They won't need that once they finish their ICO. I am thinking of investing there also.

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