t1000
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December 19, 2013, 04:27:05 PM |
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How will this affect me in the UK?If it even happens in the UK?As I'm rather concerned about losing all my money in the bank now.If it's going to happen which countries are safe from this scheme where you lose some money to pay off the national debts?I just want to find a safe place to put my money in (paid all dues so no issue of tax avoidance/evasion in my case)
Basically most of the Western banking laws have just been recently changed to accommodate "bail-in" solutions instead of govt. rescues. Read your banking fine print and you may have to go to govt. legal scholars to get the exact state of play such is the thicket that has been created. There are all kinds of considerations like secured note debt holders, unsecured notes, convertible notes, preferential debt obligations, etc, etc ... what it means is that bank depositors have now been placed at the end of a very long queue of people with their hand out when a banking collapse comes along. Rule of thumb, as a depositor you should now view any money deposited in the bank as belonging to the bank, you do NOT have ownership, or possession, of that money any longer. As I understand it, the first £85000 deposit per person per bank regulated in the UK are protected by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. This is government backed and is like an insurance in case banks collapse. I guess if the worst case do come, the UK will be able to print enough to pay everyone back their deposit.
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Noruka
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December 19, 2013, 04:59:43 PM |
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come together as a union, citizen arrest and hang the criminals.
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marcus_of_augustus
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Activity: 3920
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Eadem mutata resurgo
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December 19, 2013, 06:58:42 PM |
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How will this affect me in the UK?If it even happens in the UK?As I'm rather concerned about losing all my money in the bank now.If it's going to happen which countries are safe from this scheme where you lose some money to pay off the national debts?I just want to find a safe place to put my money in (paid all dues so no issue of tax avoidance/evasion in my case)
Basically most of the Western banking laws have just been recently changed to accommodate "bail-in" solutions instead of govt. rescues. Read your banking fine print and you may have to go to govt. legal scholars to get the exact state of play such is the thicket that has been created. There are all kinds of considerations like secured note debt holders, unsecured notes, convertible notes, preferential debt obligations, etc, etc ... what it means is that bank depositors have now been placed at the end of a very long queue of people with their hand out when a banking collapse comes along. Rule of thumb, as a depositor you should now view any money deposited in the bank as belonging to the bank, you do NOT have ownership, or possession, of that money any longer. As I understand it, the first £85000 deposit per person per bank regulated in the UK are protected by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. This is government backed and is like an insurance in case banks collapse. I guess if the worst case do come, the UK will be able to print enough to pay everyone back their deposit. In which case you have to examine the solvency of your govt., and the state of it's fiat paper, to make good on the deposit 'insurance'. And being repaid in a highly devaluing currency (because millions of people have just had their 85,000 deposit 'insurance' freshly printed) may not be much of a settlement at all.
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cr1776
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December 19, 2013, 07:02:14 PM |
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How will this affect me in the UK?If it even happens in the UK?As I'm rather concerned about losing all my money in the bank now.If it's going to happen which countries are safe from this scheme where you lose some money to pay off the national debts?I just want to find a safe place to put my money in (paid all dues so no issue of tax avoidance/evasion in my case)
Basically most of the Western banking laws have just been recently changed to accommodate "bail-in" solutions instead of govt. rescues. Read your banking fine print and you may have to go to govt. legal scholars to get the exact state of play such is the thicket that has been created. There are all kinds of considerations like secured note debt holders, unsecured notes, convertible notes, preferential debt obligations, etc, etc ... what it means is that bank depositors have now been placed at the end of a very long queue of people with their hand out when a banking collapse comes along. Rule of thumb, as a depositor you should now view any money deposited in the bank as belonging to the bank, you do NOT have ownership, or possession, of that money any longer. As I understand it, the first £85000 deposit per person per bank regulated in the UK are protected by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. This is government backed and is like an insurance in case banks collapse. I guess if the worst case do come, the UK will be able to print enough to pay everyone back their deposit. In which case you have to examine the solvency of your govt., and the state of it's fiat paper, to make good on the deposit 'insurance'. And being repaid in a highly devaluing currency (because millions of people have just had their 85,000 deposit 'insurance' freshly printed) may not be much of a settlement at all. moa is exactly right. The insurance won't be worth much if it is paid with freshly printed paper. If there are whispers about the banks or the government becoming insolvent, make plans while you can before it happens.
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solex
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100 satoshis -> ISO code
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December 19, 2013, 07:08:20 PM |
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In which case you have to examine the solvency of your govt., and the state of it's fiat paper, to make good on the deposit 'insurance'. And being repaid in a highly devaluing currency (because millions of people have just had their 85,000 deposit 'insurance' freshly printed) may not be much of a settlement at all.
moa is exactly right. The insurance won't be worth much if it is paid with freshly printed paper. If there are whispers about the banks or the government becoming insolvent, make plans while you can before it happens. To be absolutely clear, owners of small deposits are protected in most countries by some government-backed insurance scheme, however, all these schemes are accounting gimmicks. There is no money saved for this purpose. Ideally the banks should be levied over many years to fund these schemes, and the fund ring-fenced. Instead they are all backed with printed money. So, during a bail-in, small depositors are made whole by an inflationary stealth tax on every person holding the currency concerned. Bitcoin user not affectedTM
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ElectricMucus
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Marketing manager - GO MP
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December 19, 2013, 07:30:49 PM |
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In which case you have to examine the solvency of your govt., and the state of it's fiat paper, to make good on the deposit 'insurance'. And being repaid in a highly devaluing currency (because millions of people have just had their 85,000 deposit 'insurance' freshly printed) may not be much of a settlement at all.
moa is exactly right. The insurance won't be worth much if it is paid with freshly printed paper. If there are whispers about the banks or the government becoming insolvent, make plans while you can before it happens. To be absolutely clear, owners of small deposits are protected in most countries by some government-backed insurance scheme, however, all these schemes are accounting gimmicks. There is no money saved for this purpose. Ideally the banks should be levied over many years to fund these schemes, and the fund ring-fenced. Instead they are all backed with printed money. So, during a bail-in, small depositors are made whole by an inflationary stealth tax on every person holding the currency concerned. Bitcoin user not affectedTMWhich does not lead to actual inflation because it stimulates spending more than everything. "Inflationary" is just not printing money, it's only inflation if the pace of new money overtakes the economy.
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Carlton Banks
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December 19, 2013, 07:40:39 PM |
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Also remember the MO in Cyprus: bank holidays.
Which includes the upcoming Christmas and New Year holidays for many countries. I'm not saying to empty your bank account over Christmas, it would be poor taste and PR to time it like that, but maybe just take the time to think about it: if bail-ins were announced at 6pm on Christmas Eve, what could you even do? When you're at an ATM on New Years Day, what would it be like if the queues were round the corner, or imagine the neighbour you don't speak to discovering they have an empty fuel tank, and sheepishly asking whether you're making a trip to the ATM today?
Maybe take out a spare 100 or so. Just in case. (as if Christmas doesn't hurt your bank balance enough already....)
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Vires in numeris
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marcus_of_augustus
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Eadem mutata resurgo
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December 19, 2013, 08:12:40 PM |
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Only leave deposited in a bank what you can afford to lose.
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meanig
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December 19, 2013, 08:32:35 PM |
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Only leave deposited in a bank what you can afford to lose. This needs to be printed on t-shirts
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F-bernanke
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December 19, 2013, 09:22:26 PM |
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The link says that the Cyprus Central Bank warned against using bitcoin. This is Irony, it is not nearly as dangerous as what happened to depositors there, in case they forgot. Perhaps they mean "dangerous to the central bank monopoly." http://www.cna.org.cy/webnewsEN.asp?a=6920172fd6f140dbb55eba24d5ddef2bCyprus Central Bank has warned that using the virtual currency Bitcoin is dangerous.
Replying to a CNA question on the matter, the Central Bank notes that “it considers the use of any kind of virtual money as particularly dangerous, given that it is not under any regulatory system and its operation is unchecked”.
At the same time, other CNA sources say that the government feels that the virtual currency is too risky at present. Didn't they get the memo? http://youtu.be/yc6Hp_Zq3rU
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AirFlame
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December 19, 2013, 10:50:31 PM |
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Wow i have read the article and i am shocked about You situation. 700k blocked and lost by those mafia ~~ I can't call it otherwise they are mafia. I think if i make money in Bitcoins i will check 2x times before i get money to my bank or any other bank !
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domob
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December 20, 2013, 12:21:19 PM |
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Only leave deposited in a bank what you can afford to lose. I have to remember this, great! That said, I still have the majority of my net-worth in fiat on the bank ... but it is not near the insurance limit, and in case a global Cyprus happens, I'm sure that the appreciation of my bitcoins will outweight the lost fiat by far.
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Use your Namecoin identity as OpenID: https://nameid.org/Donations: 1 domobKsPZ5cWk2kXssD8p8ES1qffGUCm | NMC: NC domobcmcmVdxC5yxMitojQ4tvAtv99pY BM-GtQnWM3vcdorfqpKXsmfHQ4rVYPG5pKS | GPG 0xA7330737
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wachtwoord
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December 20, 2013, 12:25:11 PM |
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Only leave deposited in a bank what you can afford to lose. I have to remember this, great! That said, I still have the majority of my net-worth in fiat on the bank ... but it is not near the insurance limit, and in case a global Cyprus happens, I'm sure that the appreciation of my bitcoins will outweight the lost fiat by far. Don't be so sure. I only have deposited at a bank what I can afford to lose. The rest is in stocks and crypto.
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domob
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December 20, 2013, 12:43:10 PM |
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Don't be so sure. I only have deposited at a bank what I can afford to lose. The rest is in stocks and crypto.
I'm not sure, to be honest. But at the moment I have a good feeling with respect to the amounts I have in fiat and crypto and the associated risks. Neither amount is negligible, although neither is big, either. I think the most important thing is that everyone has to think about risks and potentials involved, and decide for themselves what they want; I have done that for me and feel good the way it is. I wouldn't like having 100% in either of the options.
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Use your Namecoin identity as OpenID: https://nameid.org/Donations: 1 domobKsPZ5cWk2kXssD8p8ES1qffGUCm | NMC: NC domobcmcmVdxC5yxMitojQ4tvAtv99pY BM-GtQnWM3vcdorfqpKXsmfHQ4rVYPG5pKS | GPG 0xA7330737
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Dusty
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December 21, 2013, 03:47:40 PM |
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I didn't know this one: really great
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boltactionz
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January 17, 2014, 12:28:12 AM |
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Only leave deposited in a bank what you can afford to lose. I have to remember this, great! That said, I still have the majority of my net-worth in fiat on the bank ... but it is not near the insurance limit, and in case a global Cyprus happens, I'm sure that the appreciation of my bitcoins will outweight the lost fiat by far. Don't be so sure. I only have deposited at a bank what I can afford to lose. The rest is in stocks and crypto.
Here's something you might want to take a look at: http://www.nestmann.com/your-money-isnt-safe-in-any-u-s-financial-institution#.Uth2brTqFOwIt's one of the best explanations of what happened when MF Global went kaboom and imploded. There are other explanations, but this one tells the perspective of an account holder and what he went through. I mention this because next time it might be a stock brokerage that holds your stocks that implodes instead of a bank in a tax haven country like Cyprus that pulls the robbery. Note that there was an insurance plan in place, but due to the irregularities of what the main guy Jon Corzine did the insurance people stepped aside and let the fecal matter hit the rotary impeller instead. Plus, in the case of the US there is not anywhere near enough currency even in existence to bail out a single too-big-to-fail bank if it comes to that. Another thing is, do you know what is actually supposed to happen in the event of a bank failure where you are? Not the extraordinary stuff like with Cyprus, I mean when it's an ordinary situation and the insurance scheme kicks in to make everybody whole. A lot of people in the US will be in for a really huge surprise if their bank fails because even when the FDIC backs the bank it doesn't just come in and give everybody their money back. There is a standard procedure they follow where they only allow so much per week to be withdrawn, no matter what the bank balance is. If that amount is less than your mortgage, then that's tough and it's all on you unless your mortgage is with the bank that's failing. And this is when it's an ordinary situation. I was stunned to learn how they do things when a bank goes down.
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solex
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January 17, 2014, 09:14:20 PM |
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Two recent events in particular show that the US is a pale shadow of the freedom-loving law-abiding democracy founded in 1776:
1). Tapper lying to congress and getting away with it. 2). Corzine mixing client and prop funds and getting away with it.
So, yes, in the wasteland ruins of the 1776 idealism money cannot be safe in any financial institution.
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darkmule
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January 27, 2014, 05:42:45 PM |
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Two recent events in particular show that the US is a pale shadow of the freedom-loving law-abiding democracy founded in 1776:
1). Tapper lying to congress and getting away with it. 2). Corzine mixing client and prop funds and getting away with it.
So, yes, in the wasteland ruins of the 1776 idealism money cannot be safe in any financial institution.
Some who lived in New Jersey in the recent past may also remember Jon Corzine as the corrupt, incompetent Democratic governor who is personally the reason why even a heavily Democratic state like New Jersey has a Republican governor, Chris Christie. (Note, additionally, NJ's Democratic leanings are somewhat exaggerated and if you look at the northern parts of the state that are basically wealthy suburbs of New York, as well as the suburban landscape of central Jersey, you'll find a lot of Republican strongholds as well.)
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solex
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January 28, 2014, 12:35:37 AM |
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Two recent events in particular show that the US is a pale shadow of the freedom-loving law-abiding democracy founded in 1776:
1). Tapper lying to congress and getting away with it. 2). Corzine mixing client and prop funds and getting away with it.
So, yes, in the wasteland ruins of the 1776 idealism money cannot be safe in any financial institution.
Some who lived in New Jersey in the recent past may also remember Jon Corzine as the corrupt, incompetent Democratic governor who is personally the reason why even a heavily Democratic state like New Jersey has a Republican governor, Chris Christie. (Note, additionally, NJ's Democratic leanings are somewhat exaggerated and if you look at the northern parts of the state that are basically wealthy suburbs of New York, as well as the suburban landscape of central Jersey, you'll find a lot of Republican strongholds as well.) The real problem is that in recent years you cannot get a cigarette paper between the Democrats and Republicans as they exercise policy when in government. Effectively it means democracy is irrelevant and there is a one-party state. Same situation exists in the UK and Germany.
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