BITCOINS ARE CRASHING SELL SELL SELL

[onesalt]

GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN THIS LOOKS LIKE IT IS IT

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[Zooey]

can't i just bend over now and take it?

[mctrix]

they are dropping pretty quickly!

[Clearfly]

Lol, the panic kicks in, MTGOX is down

[Apollo21]

Is the bubble finally going...POP

[contactluis]

You people are insane to sell now. Now is the time to buy, buy, buy. This is inexperienced investors who think that the bubble must be bursting because the price has decrease 20% from today's high. There is no news, nothing to cause this sell off but fear. Twice this has happened, the last one was just this Saturday when the price decreased by 25% to $52 only to come back in a couple of hours.

[Zooey]

Back up we go....

Lets compile a nice list of the FUD screaming bitcoin haters who outed themselves to try and push this one as low as they could.
Dickgobblers such as:
 

[Lucifer]

If I had any extra money I would put it all into Bitcoin now. Anyone telling you to sell now is hoping to drive the price lower so they can buy at a discount.

[johnyj]

Maybe that is team Avalon cashing out their order money to buy parts, 48K in sell volume, and only 10K buy volume pushed it back towards 88

[Bitzing]

SELL SELL SELL so I can BUY BUY BUY 

[Tonko]

Typically, whenever there is a notable increase in the volume, BTC drops in price. It has been happening pretty regularly.

My theory: when the actual buyers come in the price drops. In the meantime, few groups with huge number of BTCs buy and sell to each other, artificially increasing the price.

[justusranvier]

My theory: when the actual buyers come in the price drops. In the meantime, few groups with huge number of BTCs buy and sell to each other, artificially increasing the price.

Those groups can't have an infinite amount of bitcoins. Where are all the bitcoins that Coinbase is consistently selling out of coming from?

[Bitzing]

My theory: when the actual buyers come in the price drops. In the meantime, few groups with huge number of BTCs buy and sell to each other, artificially increasing the price.

Those groups can't have an infinite amount of bitcoins. Where are all the bitcoins that Coinbase is consistently selling out of coming from?

The users that cash out with them I would assume.

[Tonko]

Those groups can't have an infinite amount of bitcoins. Where are all the bitcoins that Coinbase is consistently selling out of coming from?

Coinbase is dysfunctional for about a week. Can't put through any order, many users report that their existing accounts show negative amounts of BTCs, while they should be positive. My own account is showing 0.00 BTCs, even if I haven't sold any of the few that I managed to acquire from them over 3 weeks.
I don't think Coinbase is doing any great business this week. Lots of people are reporting how slow MtGox is.

That explains the bursty nature of the volume. Eventually all the shitty services and exchanges manage to process some real purchases and sales from small BTC account users.

Provide the liquidity to this market and the price would drop or at least be more stable.

They don't need to have infinite amounts of BTCs. Just big enough to be able to play while only a few others can come in and trade and establish real  demand and supply.
I sell you 1 BTC, you sell me 1 BTC. Over and over. How much do we have in the end? The same as when we started!  

Of course, this is all just a theory based on some observations and some past experiences with pink slip penny stocks.

[justusranvier]

The users that cash out with them I would assume.

I suspect, but can not prove, that Coinbase is selling far more bitcoins than it is cashing out for users because I never see threads posted where people are complaining about not being able to sell on Coinbase. It's always the other way around.

Tangible Cryptography is another good indicator. On the Bitcoins Direct side they are barely able to keep bitcoins in stock to sell, and frequently have to freeze orders and are rarely open to new clients.

The FastCash4Bitcoins side keeps offering more ways to cash out and increasingly favourable rates but still can't find enough BTC sellers to keep up with demand on the other side of the business.

[Dr.Steve]

Market correction function to establish a support price. From the support price, bitcoin value can continue its rise.

[Tonko]

Typically, when a big buyer comes into the market he will push prices and volume up. A buyer is willing to cover a certain range of asks, including the asks higher than the average he would really like to purchase at.

The same on the sell side. When a large seller comes in determined to sell, he will have to sell to bids lower than the current price. Volume grows but price drops.

And of course, price is now going up on decreasing volume.

Since there is no official market-maker at MtGox, the entity(entities) acting in its stead are doing a great job.

[Bitzing]

The users that cash out with them I would assume.

I suspect, but can not prove, that Coinbase is selling far more bitcoins than it is cashing out for users because I never see threads posted where people are complaining about not being able to sell on Coinbase. It's always the other way around.

Tangible Cryptography is another good indicator. On the Bitcoins Direct side they are barely able to keep bitcoins in stock to sell, and frequently have to freeze orders and are rarely open to new clients.

The FastCash4Bitcoins side keeps offering more ways to cash out and increasingly favourable rates but still can't find enough BTC sellers to keep up with demand on the other side of the business.

Wouldn't this prove the theory that coinbase only sells what customers cashout, hence why people can always sell to coinbase and don't complain (I recently had 2 small cash outs process on ETA). If they were selling more than they can cover they would be slow on paying out for coins purchased.

I just think it's a new business not accustom to the high volume of trades taking place and don't know how to handle it.

[justusranvier]

Based on the way their buying limit works I think they are buying their bitcoins from Mt Gox, withdrawing them to their own addresses, and selling them to users who are mostly holding on to them. I think the 24 hour limit is based on them sending a new wire transfer to Mt Gox every day they use to buy Bitcoins with to sell to their customers. They are slowly trying to increase their volume but are limited by the ACH delay in terms of getting more money into their own accounts, and send most of their operating capital over to Mt Gox every day. When they stop accepting new orders it's because they are out of dollars to buy with until the banking system finishes processing another batch of ACH pulls and another wire.

[Tonko]

A new buy order initiates ACH transfer. It is understandable if they don't want/can not guarantee everybody current price in the face of daily increases and the time it takes to process the orders with MtGox.

But that works also the other way around - they are not getting new money in, because ACH transfer can't be processed if it doesn't start in the first place.
Plus, sellers are depleting them of cash, even if this group is probably not complaining because delays for them mean better prices.

However, I would be scared to be a seller with this liquidity. One day, if price starts dropping and you can get out only a week later ...

A drop in price on high volume today shows that there are also sellers, whether many small or a few big ones.

Somebody was willing to sell at $75 when the current price was $105.

For that person, losing $30 on thousands of BTCs means nothing and there are three possibilities (and combinations of them):
a) it is still $75 on investement of say $5. A prudent sale upon a huge gain.
b) somebody really needs fiat
c) somebody thinks shit is going to hit the fan and just wants out

[Beepbop]

Those groups can't have an infinite amount of bitcoins. Where are all the bitcoins that Coinbase is consistently selling out of coming from?

Silk Road provides continuing volume at any prize. It wouldn't matter if it was 1000 BTC/USD or 10 BTC/USD - they need the same USD sized volume to turn over to finalize deals.

[Tonko]

Silk Road provides continuing volume at any prize. It wouldn't matter if it was 1000 BTC/USD or 10 BTC/USD - they need the same USD sized volume to turn over to finalize deals.

There is a simple explanation for that. Silk Road is the real business. They have no heroic, ideological investment in Bitcoin. For them it is just a very convenient tool. They don't care if BTC is $10 or $100. They want volume and commission on trades and to keep customers happy. For more volume and more commissions.

I'm guessing they started with a good amount of BTCs and cash available, to maintain the liquidity initially.

MtGox, OTOH, may be in the market cornering business.

In the olden days, there were guys who had enough money (or could get enough financing) to, for example, buy entire corn supply of the country, before anybody noticed it.
By the time everybody else realized that it is a single guy who owns all the corn, it was too late. The guy, such and such, was then publicly known to have cornered the corn market. Everybody had to go to him to buy the corn and he could dictate the price. These guys became rich and famous, but some did, in the end, lose their fortunes.

It is possible that MtGox has agreements with a couple of groups, controlling large amount of BTCs, to corner the market together.

[advisers]

Short term fluctuations (in the bitcoin case, megafluctuations, agreed) are irrelevant when you've got a long term mega bullish trend. Bitcoin will eventually hit 100,000 and 1,000,000 at some point, just a matter of time. Buy and hold forever. Promote it. Do some transactions to bring the system mainstream. Get rich and retire.

[Tonko]

I can already feel all those zombies crying: I need a Bitcoin fix, gimme Bitcoin please, I'll give you 1,000,000 of US fiat, go buy that damn Ferrari, just gimme my Bitcoin fix.

[mestar]

By the time everybody else realized that it is a single guy who owns all the corn, it was too late. The guy, such and such, was then publicly known to have cornered the corn market.

If you bought all the corner stores in a city, would that be cornering the "corner market" market?

[Tonko]

If you bought all the corner stores in a city, would that be cornering the "corner market" market?

Imagine cornering the toilet paper market. Instantly superrich!

[mestar]

My plan of cornering the corner market market was so successful that I decided to write a book about it.  Soon, some other copycat books about it sprung up as well.   If I decided to buy the publishing rights for all those books,  that would be cornering the "cornering the 'corner market' market" market?

[Tonko]

You should first wipe your ass several times.

[deathcode]

can we close this thread as inaccurate?

[ProfMac]

can we close this thread as inaccurate?

Nah.  Buy now.  Wait for the next crash.  Repeat the same posts.

[Tonko]

can we close this thread as inaccurate?

Nah, just change the title to: elementary example of pump and dump.

[Beepbop]

Satoshi died for your sins

On the third day, they shall rise again.