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Author Topic: Currency v Property  (Read 5625 times)
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September 01, 2016, 03:05:41 AM
 #1

I've been interested in the currency versus property debates in State courts throughout the USA.  It's an interesting topic to consider.  Outside of the theoretical debate, it seems to me that in practice bitcoiners themselves view and use Bitcoin as property and not as a means of payment/value transfer.

What are your thoughts?  And does it really matter? 

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September 01, 2016, 03:32:22 AM
 #2

Categorization of Bitcoin is never ending discussion. It is a currency, commodity, property? This actually is a problem.

In one country BTC is currency in others commodity and some others are waiting...

Semantics and legal issues are the reasons why we don't have any serious bitcoin legislation in place.

In US bitcoin is classified both as currency (by U.S. Treasury ) and commodity (by Commodity Futures Trading Commission).

How simple people can be smart when even pros have no idea what bitcoin really is?



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September 01, 2016, 03:43:59 AM
 #3

This is such a weird and interesting question,  because what is bitcoin really?  It's an electronic ledger entry.  It's the most abstract asset, currency,  whatever that you could imagine.   It'll be nice when governments finally decide what to classify it as.   

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September 01, 2016, 04:24:20 AM
 #4

Bitcoin is actually a digiital program. a way of payment. and a currency..
see what blockchain says:

Quote
In non-technical language, Bitcoin is a digital currency in which transactions can be performed without the need for a credit card or central bank. It's designed to enable users to send money over the Internet in a very simple and efficient way.

but in my openion bitcoin can be considered as a property also..
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September 01, 2016, 04:31:00 AM
 #5

Bitcoin is actually a digiital program. a way of payment. and a currency..
see what blockchain says:

Quote
In non-technical language, Bitcoin is a digital currency in which transactions can be performed without the need for a credit card or central bank. It's designed to enable users to send money over the Internet in a very simple and efficient way.

but in my openion bitcoin can be considered as a property also..


I just saw bitcoin as an instrument of investment and not as a property
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September 01, 2016, 04:49:05 AM
Last edit: September 01, 2016, 11:09:20 AM by Kolder
 #6

Bitcoin is actually a digiital program. a way of payment. and a currency..
see what blockchain says:

Quote
In non-technical language, Bitcoin is a digital currency in which transactions can be performed without the need for a credit card or central bank. It's designed to enable users to send money over the Internet in a very simple and efficient way.

but in my openion bitcoin can be considered as a property also..


I just saw bitcoin as an instrument of investment and not as a property


i think bitcoin is both property and currency, Bitcoin is a currecy but once you buy it, it becomes your property because it is belong to you now,

as per definition of property by wikipedia:
Quote
In the abstract, property is that which belongs to or with something, whether as an attribute or as a component of said thing. In the context of this article, property is one or more components (rather than attributes), whether physical or incorporeal, of a person's estate; or so belonging to, as in being owned by, a person or jointly a group of people or a legal entity like a corporation or even a society.

that is my basis in my opinion and supports my conclusion.  Cool

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September 01, 2016, 04:51:21 AM
 #7

It is indeed an interesting topic to think of but that does not mean that it's profitable. We are an expert at something in our own different ways, if you're good at talking to people and you can buy and sell properties easily, then you can start doing that.

But if you already have a primary source of income that is enough to feed you, buy some luxuries every now and then, and you don't have the skills and time to buy and sell properties, then Bitcoin is for you. Selling and buying of Bitcoin is just a few clicks away, you don't have to talk to people. It requires no human interaction, you don't have to persuade a stranger just to make him buy your product.

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September 01, 2016, 06:48:16 AM
 #8

I think it's interesting to look at the startup landscape versus reworks use.  The startup landscape seems to be focused on remittance and value transfer.  What's funny is big finance constantly saying Bitcoin is not a currency and the real disruption is the Blockchain, but isn't remittance and value transfer exactly the intent of currency?

From BitPay and Coinbase, to JPMorgan and NASDAQ, the ideas seem to be to use Bitcoin as a means to transfer fiat currencies, which I think is brilliant but limited.  I think Bitcoin is superior to ACh and SWIFT, but I'm also an advocate of the social revolution.  So simply a means of transferring fiat currencies kind of irks me a bit.

I would love to see the day when Bitcoin based businesses stand on their own without fiat.  Unfortunately it doesn't seem that's a reality yet.  The strength of Bitcoin is also its problem.  It's strength creates speculation and hording rather than the use of Bitcoin.  I'm guilty of this myself.

What does that mean?  Simple, do you invest in Bitcoin and hold it hoping for a future increase in value?  Or do you use Bitcoin to make purchases?  If you do use it, how often do you use it versus fiat?

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September 01, 2016, 01:29:51 PM
 #9

Bitcoin is actually a digiital program. a way of payment. and a currency..
see what blockchain says:

Quote
In non-technical language, Bitcoin is a digital currency in which transactions can be performed without the need for a credit card or central bank. It's designed to enable users to send money over the Internet in a very simple and efficient way.

but in my openion bitcoin can be considered as a property also..


I just saw bitcoin as an instrument of investment and not as a property
yeah, for me bitcoin is just an investment possibility either, to be honest i dont put too much money into it right now but still it is better than nothing
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September 01, 2016, 01:47:17 PM
 #10

I'd say that it is more of a commodity. Like gold, it is not issued by a central authority, but mined in exchange for spent resources. The fact that it is highly liquid as a medium of exchange (one of the defining characteristics of a currency) is not enough to say that it is, indeed, a currency, and only a currency. Gold was also freely used as a medium of exchange, when coins were made out of it.
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September 01, 2016, 05:17:51 PM
 #11

Outside of the theoretical debate, it seems to me that in practice bitcoiners themselves view and use Bitcoin as property and not as a means of payment/value transfer.

What are your thoughts?  And does it really matter? 

To me it seems, that Bitcoiners use Bitcoin both as property and as a value transfer system. Bitcoin - even if virtual - is a lot like the earlier hard cash coins used as currency, that where made out of precious metals. You could use these coins for purchases, but you could also just store them and because of their precious metal content they would not loose their value like today's fiat currencies. So in that regard, Bitcoin is just a modern revival of the "good old times".

However, compared to the old precious metal currencies, the value transfer function of Bitcoin is much more powerful. With Bitcoin you can transact worldwide within an instant.

Maybe it's possible that during the last decades, people have become so accustomed to inflationary fiat crap money that it is hard for them to imagine that valuable property can be money at the same time... Cheesy

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September 01, 2016, 05:38:04 PM
 #12

Bitcoin cannot be properly defined... is this new, amazing but weird asset. It can be used as gold, or it can be used as a way to pay for your groceries if you can find the place that accepts it. So how to properly define it? very hard task.
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September 01, 2016, 06:12:58 PM
 #13

Currency in most cases is not backed,with property you can tell there's actually something there which you can see,have property's plan etc. but however with the currency you don't hold actually anything,it's something which can really go either way and lose it's value or actually become more expensive.And that's why we've seen a lot of times in the past that certain currency can become cheaper and you can buy less products with it during recessions.

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September 01, 2016, 06:15:33 PM
 #14

I've been interested in the currency versus property debates in State courts throughout the USA.  It's an interesting topic to consider.  Outside of the theoretical debate, it seems to me that in practice bitcoiners themselves view and use Bitcoin as property and not as a means of payment/value transfer.

What are your thoughts?  And does it really matter? 


I would say that bitcoin price growing faster than the property which you bought or gonna buy and I suggest you to purchase some bitcoins and hold in the paper wallet this will shows you big price in upcoming years.
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September 01, 2016, 07:48:37 PM
 #15

It's quite difficult to tell what is a currency and what is a property. I think, property's a bigger category. Alot of items that's a property is used as currency too. It's complicated to regulate these items by law. Laws often don't work well and contain paradoxes and holes. But people'll try to categorize the items anyway so you should research and be well aware of the mentioned gray parts. If you're aware of what belongs to that uncertain field, you can recognize when people just try to push you into their view but they cannot base it on any real law. In that case, you may be able to overcome their arguments and turn the situation in your favor.
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September 01, 2016, 08:08:12 PM
 #16

I've been interested in the currency versus property debates in State courts throughout the USA.  It's an interesting topic to consider.  Outside of the theoretical debate, it seems to me that in practice bitcoiners themselves view and use Bitcoin as property and not as a means of payment/value transfer.

What are your thoughts?  And does it really matter? 

If you take cold storage for example, and encrypt it, who's gonna tell its currency? Wink

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September 01, 2016, 08:14:28 PM
 #17

Bitcoin is indeed a currency and a property,you cannot clearly define bitcoin since it is intangible ,every country will define bitcoin according to what they seems fit.In my opinion all the cryptocurrencies should be treated as a commodity similar to gold and silver.

 
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September 02, 2016, 05:32:20 AM
 #18

Categorization of Bitcoin is never ending discussion. It is a currency, commodity, property? This actually is a problem.

In one country BTC is currency in others commodity and some others are waiting...

Semantics and legal issues are the reasons why we don't have any serious bitcoin legislation in place.

In US bitcoin is classified both as currency (by U.S. Treasury ) and commodity (by Commodity Futures Trading Commission).

How simple people can be smart when even pros have no idea what bitcoin really is?



Maybe the regulators should make a new category. Then in that category they should start from scratch and create new laws for it. If they will depend on the system they have now then there would be a lot of holes a lawyer could find. One good example is the man from Florida who was charged with money laundering using bitcoins. The judge dismissed his case because the judge declared that bitcoin is not real money. I think the judge did what he did because he does not want to make a mistake that will set a precedent in the upcoming money laundering cases involving bitcoin. It was way over his head.


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September 02, 2016, 05:36:26 AM
 #19

I've been interested in the currency versus property debates in State courts throughout the USA.  It's an interesting topic to consider.  Outside of the theoretical debate, it seems to me that in practice bitcoiners themselves view and use Bitcoin as property and not as a means of payment/value transfer.

What are your thoughts?  And does it really matter? 
Personally it looks more like the defining line between property and currency is getting more and more arbitrarily defined, and it looks like personal opinion precedes every other form of logic when you are required to define it. I personally view property as something more tangible and something you can see as an object, while currency is a token of value in my opinion. There are some lines that cross, e.i. a currency can also be property in a physical form, but for Bitcoin I would say it is more of a currency than a form of property, however even I think the line is somewhat fuzzy.
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September 02, 2016, 07:18:06 AM
 #20

i believe bitcoin may not be property , it is like an digital currency , mainly used for earning online and exchanging to different currency. property means like you can says that will be for longer tenure , as bitcoins are volatile and prices vary an time  Smiley.

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