[ANN][KMD][dPoW] Komodo - An Open, Composable Smart Chain Platform, Secured by B

[Thenoticer]

there is a small chance that this testnet can become the actual mainnet

it was a very remote chance before, but now there are just the bugfixes and the 5% APR left to add

if we can get that and also verify that election ratification works, then there is no need to reset the chain

still a lot of if's, just wanted to post about the increasing chances. what I like about it is that it rewards the people who have been helping the test process. it also makes the mainnet a bit more secure as it starts with an established history.

It would also make KMD the longest running zero knowledge blockchain

Would this mean that a genesis block has already been created? And how does this effect the trusted setup argument?

Thanks.

The genesis block is unrelated to the zcash parameters. the trusted setup argument requires assuming that ALL participants in creating the zcash parameters are colluding.

And if there is such a collusion and it is used to inflate the currency supply, it will be discovered and ALL the participants would be found out that they colluded. Also, market value of zcash will plummet, so it seems that smart people wouldnt collude together to be exposed as a colluding group, even if they were unethical and open to stealing.

Does anybody really believe that Matt Green, et. all will all be colluding to steal zcash? ALL of them? knowing that if they utilize the ability to steal the coins that they will be caught and that there is no doubt as to who did the stealing?

Because of this I do not worry about the trusted setup argument

I guess I just don't quite understand. " The genesis block is unrelated to zcash parameters"

My thinking is getting hung up on this statement.

if we can get that and also verify that election ratification works, then there is no need to reset the chain

I assumed reset the chain meant create a new genesis block, as wouldn't a "chain" imply it is using a genesis block. Is the testnet chain using a genesis block?

Thanks for the clarity.

All blockchains have a genesis block, it is just the first block that all nodes start from.
If we reset the chain, we will likely change the genesis block, but that is independent as you can reset the chain (start over from genesis) without changing the genesis.

My last comment.

Is the komodo genesis block bullet proof? Ie: are there future arguments that someone could make that it wasn't done in a fair or transparent manner? I've read somewhere that setting up the genesis block for zcash style system would need assurances that the (master key?) be properly destroyed. What assurances does komodo community have that the genesis block + master key was and or will be setup correctly? I believe that I understand the colluding arg, (all participants would have to be corrupt) is that the assurance? Can you elaborate on the process used to create the genesis block and the handling of the master key. (Who are the people with the M K, the notaries?)

Thanks

Edit. Heres where my info came from
https://forum.z.cash/t/trusted-setup-phase/68/4

https://m.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3p31lj/wait_so_with_zerocash_you_have_to_trust_a_third/

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[jl777]

there is a small chance that this testnet can become the actual mainnet

it was a very remote chance before, but now there are just the bugfixes and the 5% APR left to add

if we can get that and also verify that election ratification works, then there is no need to reset the chain

still a lot of if's, just wanted to post about the increasing chances. what I like about it is that it rewards the people who have been helping the test process. it also makes the mainnet a bit more secure as it starts with an established history.

It would also make KMD the longest running zero knowledge blockchain

Would this mean that a genesis block has already been created? And how does this effect the trusted setup argument?

Thanks.

The genesis block is unrelated to the zcash parameters. the trusted setup argument requires assuming that ALL participants in creating the zcash parameters are colluding.

And if there is such a collusion and it is used to inflate the currency supply, it will be discovered and ALL the participants would be found out that they colluded. Also, market value of zcash will plummet, so it seems that smart people wouldnt collude together to be exposed as a colluding group, even if they were unethical and open to stealing.

Does anybody really believe that Matt Green, et. all will all be colluding to steal zcash? ALL of them? knowing that if they utilize the ability to steal the coins that they will be caught and that there is no doubt as to who did the stealing?

Because of this I do not worry about the trusted setup argument

I guess I just don't quite understand. " The genesis block is unrelated to zcash parameters"

My thinking is getting hung up on this statement.

if we can get that and also verify that election ratification works, then there is no need to reset the chain

I assumed reset the chain meant create a new genesis block, as wouldn't a "chain" imply it is using a genesis block. Is the testnet chain using a genesis block?

Thanks for the clarity.

All blockchains have a genesis block, it is just the first block that all nodes start from.
If we reset the chain, we will likely change the genesis block, but that is independent as you can reset the chain (start over from genesis) without changing the genesis.

My last comment.

Is the komodo genesis block bullet proof? Ie: are there future arguments that someone could make that it wasn't done in a fair or transparent manner? I've read somewhere that setting up the genesis block for zcash style system would need assurances that the (master key?) be properly destroyed. What assurances does komodo community have that the genesis block + master key was and or will be setup correctly? I believe that I understand the colluding arg, (all participants would have to be corrupt) is that the assurance? Can you elaborate on the process used to create the genesis block and the handling of the master key. (Who are the people with the M K, the notaries?)

Thanks

Edit. Heres where my info came from
https://forum.z.cash/t/trusted-setup-phase/68/4

https://m.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/3p31lj/wait_so_with_zerocash_you_have_to_trust_a_third/

the parameters have nothing to do with the genesis block.
there is no "master key", it only exists if all the parameter creators collude.
to avoid any such issues, we will just use the same parameters as zcash
the notaries have nothing to do with the zcash parameters

[KomodoPlatform]

More info about the trusted setup / parameters

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.msg16257692#msg16257692
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.msg16352842#msg16352842
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.msg16636554#msg16636554

https://z.cash/blog/generating-zcash-parameters.html

[Thenoticer]

More info about the trusted setup / parameters

https://z.cash/blog/generating-zcash-parameters.html

To reduce risk, Zcash has designed a multi-player protocol where pubkey will be generated. The protocol has the property that privkey now corresponds to the concatenation of all participants' secret randomness. Thus, privkey will be destroyed unless all of the participants are dishonest or compromised.

Might I enquirer as to who the participants will be? Will it be the three ICO fund holders or others? Also how do you (will you) prove that the priv key is destroyed, or rather even easier just one piece of it? Is this done on camera? or will witnesses be present?

[Not trolling, just really interested]

[KomodoPlatform]

More info about the trusted setup / parameters

https://z.cash/blog/generating-zcash-parameters.html

To reduce risk, Zcash has designed a multi-player protocol where pubkey will be generated. The protocol has the property that privkey now corresponds to the concatenation of all participants' secret randomness. Thus, privkey will be destroyed unless all of the participants are dishonest or compromised.

Might I enquirer as to who the participants will be? Will it be the three ICO fund holders or others? Also how do you (will you) prove that the priv key is destroyed, or rather even easier just one piece of it? Is this done on camera? or will witnesses be present?

[Not trolling, just really interested]

Hello!

Like previously stated, we won't create those parameters ourselves, but rather use the parameters created by Zcash. We could never do the process as securely as they do.

[boomboom]

On the knomodo election site is says positions for Europe have been filled, but how can they be filled before the election has happened?

there are currently more nodes in europe than everywhere else combined. So that means the election process will be very competitive. You are certainly free to become a candidate in Europe, but better to run unopposed anywhere else.

we get more geodiversity and you would have a much higher chance of being elected

understood, thanks james

[mxhwr]

for those that missed out on the 25% bonus. you can get it by buying btcd before it rises to 532k sats

[coinmenace]

dev - what's the plan to use the BTC funds raised in ICO?

And also how the development funds (in Komodo tokens) - will they be sold in the market after some time?

[yassin54]

ICO bonus decreases to 15% in 24 hours.

https://ico.komodoplatform.com/

Tweet : https://twitter.com/KomodoPlatform/status/789843801292607488

Reddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/komodoplatform/comments/58th27/ico_bonus_decreases_to_15_in_24_hours/

Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/KomodoPlatform/photos/a.330322533980991.1073741828.321638648182713/351022735244304/?type=3&theater

News SuperNET : http://news.supernet.org/posts/2AwpnLm7SQEi7SDmn/ico-bonus-decreases-to-15-in-24-hours

[KomodoPlatform]

dev - what's the plan to use the BTC funds raised in ICO?

And also how the development funds (in Komodo tokens) - will they be sold in the market after some time?

First and foremost we must ensure the dPoW has enough funding for 10 years or so. This is the most important thing, and if we must we will limit the development expenditure in order to ensure that happens. We have to have enough funding reserved for it to guarantee to the third party blockchain we are able to continue to provide the service. Of course also the SuperNET's assetchains require dPoW to function.

Basically what this means is that the more funding we receive the more we can allocate to development & bigger team.

Bounties will be primarily paid in KMD, so that's where part of the 10 % supply is used. There are no exact plans on how to use them, but it would make sense to primarily use them as KMD. When we would have to pay in BTC we can use the raised ICO funds.

More info about ICO funds and their use by jl777
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.msg16175597#msg16175597
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.msg16624603#msg16624603

[jl777]

5% APR

This is one of the characteristics of BTCD so part of KMD requirements. BTCD used the peercoin utxo staking method. What that means is it added a required timestamp field to transactions and staking required spending an old utxo and creating a new one (usually two). So this leads to every increasing amount of work that is needed to do and also adds a lot of transactions to the blockchain.

With KMD's underlying block generation being equihash PoW, to add a utxo staking would require essentially recreating the peercoin PoS changes.

Nothing against the peercoin method, but for KMD with the notary nodes generating blocks using a modified zcash round-robin PoW, I wanted a more efficient way to deal with the 5% APR. I saw how siacoin awarded siafund interest when you spent it, which seemed a much more efficient method as it didnt take any blockchain space, nor did it need any continuously increasing amount of calculations.

of course, making such a change to the zcash codebase is easier said than done. All places that need to know how much is being spent needs to be adjusted to account for the accrued interest. Finding all such places wasnt easy and still not sure I found them all, but I got the basics working with the latest version.

To avoid creating a fork, it is just displaying the accrued interest now. Once all the various places are showing the identical values, then I can enable actually creating the coins to match the accrued interest. Since the txfee is calculated as (Sum(inputs) - Sum(outputs)), by increasing the effective amount of the inputs it would increase the txfee. So, in addition to boosting the input sum, all the places that creates transactions needs to be adjusted. That way, the amount paid for txfee will match what the sender wanted to and the value of the interest obtained.

To avoid awarding interest on dustlike outputs, I set the threshold to 1.0 KMD to be eligible for getting interest. Interest is paid by each minute, using the nLockTime of the transaction against the nTime of the previous block. No need to worry about people iterating sends to themselves each block as the txfee will eat up most of the interest if the timeframe is small.

People familar with bitcoin protocol will exclaim "most transactions dont have nLockTime set! and even if they did, there is no assurance it wasnt set arbitrarily in the past"

At least, that is what I thought at first. Then I realized that I could add a constraint that if nLockTime is set to be a timestamp, then it needs to be within some reasonable gap from the current time. current time as defined by the chaintip's nTime so we can get consensus on all interest calculation durations. By using nLockTime, it makes it a field that is somewhat useful and instead of being almost always 0, it will be a useful timestamp for all tx.

If anybody sees any issues with actually using nLockTime as a transaction timestamp, let me know. If it is used as a block height, then it wont earn interest, but that is a special case usage. For transactions that use the nLockTime actively, like the DEX protocol, the locktime is set to a near future value, which will still start the interest accruing from that point in time.

I changed the wallet to add a timestamp that is based on the chaintip's nTime so by sending funds to yourself you can create a transaction that will start earning interest. then using listunspent or other RPC, you can see the accrued interest. its cool how it keeps increasing each minute, even though it is just satoshis.

from listunspent:
    {
        "txid" : "bf0876b211c1abc3b1f9f5c1a129d81e2b6b070c112ddffe7971ab82d3b309fe",
        "vout" : 0,
        "address" : "RNJmgYaFF5DbnrNUX6pMYz9rcnDKC2tuAc",
        "account" : "",
        "scriptPubKey" : "76a9148ee61a3161993f4f7b7081259bf5f3322d65d3f888ac",
        "amount" : 1.00000000,
        "interest" : 0.00011876,
        "confirmations" : 1225,
        "spendable" : true
    },

from getrawtransaction:
    "vout" : [
        {
            "value" : 1.00000000,
            "interest" : 0.00011904,
            "n" : 0,
            "scriptPubKey" : {
                "asm" : "OP_DUP OP_HASH160 8ee61a3161993f4f7b7081259bf5f3322d65d3f8 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG",
                "hex" : "76a9148ee61a3161993f4f7b7081259bf5f3322d65d3f888ac",
                "reqSigs" : 1,
                "type" : "pubkeyhash",
                "addresses" : [
                    "RNJmgYaFF5DbnrNUX6pMYz9rcnDKC2tuAc"
                ]
            }
        },
    "confirmations" : 1228,

from gettxout:
{
    "bestblock" : "012d0a5510ac52d8bd0eacf81cd6dd2d6907233e0b0fb0c983d90cebf475cf8c",
    "confirmations" : 1293,
    "value" : 1.00000000,
    "interest" : 0.00012224,
    "scriptPubKey" : {
        "asm" : "OP_DUP OP_HASH160 8ee61a3161993f4f7b7081259bf5f3322d65d3f8 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG",
        "hex" : "76a9148ee61a3161993f4f7b7081259bf5f3322d65d3f888ac",
        "reqSigs" : 1,
        "type" : "pubkeyhash",
        "addresses" : [
            "RNJmgYaFF5DbnrNUX6pMYz9rcnDKC2tuAc"
        ]
    },
    "version" : 1,
    "coinbase" : false
}

I could have gotten this implemented in iguana in just a few hours, but I am still in the process of getting familiarized with the bitcoind C++ code, so that explains why it took me so long to add accrued interest and still it isnt in all places that are needed. When we can verify that the interest is being displayed properly in all places, we can deploy a hardfork that actually awards it. Not sure when that will be, the last hardfork created a fair amount of confusion, so I want to minimize the number of these we do, even if it is just for "testnet"

So, it seems I am ahead of schedule and I hope people wont mind if I take the rest of the weekend off.

[yassin54]

Komodo Dev Blog: How to Implement 5% APR.

https://komodoplatform.com/how-to-implement-5-apr/

Tweet : https://twitter.com/KomodoPlatform/status/789876002050678785

Reddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/komodoplatform/comments/58u2bc/komodo_dev_blog_how_to_implement_5_apr/

Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/KomodoPlatform/posts/351078418572069

News SuperNET : http://news.supernet.org/posts/geu8Rai4JZBnd5iyq/komodo-dev-blog-how-to-implement-5-apr

[loremipsum]

for those that missed out on the 25% bonus. you can get it by buying btcd before it rises to 532k sats

Yea its better to invest with BTCD now instead of BTC. It may rise but it may also fall further. We have a long time till the ICO is finished

[MoneyJ]

The ICO is going great .Many participants are hoping Komodo that its long term plan would make them stable.

[japs393]

The ICO is going great .Many participants are hoping Komodo that its long term plan would make them stable.

how to join komodo ico??? i tried the site but register not working

[barbierir]

how to join komodo ico??? i tried the site but register not working

@KomodoPlatform posted the following troubleshooting a few days ago, you can try this:

Troubleshooting

Our ICO site gives no feedback or confirmation email, so it might seem like it is not working. We are fixing these issues, and they should be done by midnight. We are also going to ad a 2FA feature.

Another thing is that the login process can take quite a while, so just wait patiently and it should work.

If you:
 - Can't access site --> Change DNS to google ones (8.8.8.8 ect)
 - Can't register --> Takes a while and doesn't give feedback right now.
 - Sign in --> Even if registering seemed to have failed, just try logging in and wait for 30 seconds or more. Should work then.

If you are still having problems You need to do this: flush DNS

[super55]

The ICO is going great .Many participants are hoping Komodo that its long term plan would make them stable.

how to join komodo ico??? i tried the site but register not working

Same happen to me in the first day too 
But don't worry, because you already registered in the system, if you already click the Register button below.

So try to login now with your email & password you had registered....you will able to login now 

[japs393]

how to join komodo ico??? i tried the site but register not working

@KomodoPlatform posted the following troubleshooting a few days ago, you can try this:

Troubleshooting

Our ICO site gives no feedback or confirmation email, so it might seem like it is not working. We are fixing these issues, and they should be done by midnight. We are also going to ad a 2FA feature.

Another thing is that the login process can take quite a while, so just wait patiently and it should work.

If you:
 - Can't access site --> Change DNS to google ones (8.8.8.8 ect)
 - Can't register --> Takes a while and doesn't give feedback right now.
 - Sign in --> Even if registering seemed to have failed, just try logging in and wait for 30 seconds or more. Should work then.

If you are still having problems You need to do this: flush DNS

i already receive email about registration...but now im getting invalid password..initiate new password does not respond...

[Wapinter]

for those that missed out on the 25% bonus. you can get it by buying btcd before it rises to 532k sats

Yea its better to invest with BTCD now instead of BTC. It may rise but it may also fall further. We have a long time till the ICO is finished

I dont have BTCD.Is it okay if I buy it and send it immediately to ICO address from exchange?Will it be okay

[barbierir]

for those that missed out on the 25% bonus. you can get it by buying btcd before it rises to 532k sats

Yea its better to invest with BTCD now instead of BTC. It may rise but it may also fall further. We have a long time till the ICO is finished

I dont have BTCD.Is it okay if I buy it and send it immediately to ICO address from exchange?Will it be okay

No, the ICO is only for Bitcoin investors. For BTCD holders there's a special swapping procedure that will take place after ICO.