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Author Topic: [ANN][KMD][dPoW] Komodo - Zcash Zero Knowledge Privacy Secured by Bitcoin  (Read 1112053 times)
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September 16, 2016, 01:46:04 PM
 #721

Want to hear bounty info. Please specify them.
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KomodoPlatform
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September 16, 2016, 01:47:35 PM
 #722

Want to hear bounty info. Please specify them.

We had translation bounties, those are all now reserved.

We will have a signature campaign that will begin shortly: today or tomorrow at the latest.

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September 16, 2016, 01:53:31 PM
 #723


Thanks for comprehensive answer, your model is very well thought out. Will there be some minimum stake required to run a notary node like dash, or is the vote the single determinant? How notary node operators are selected and governed to keep komodo decentralised will be critical, I look forward to more details on that when you have them.

Like jl777 already explained there won't be any minimum stake required, but the notary nodes have to meet certain requirements. Earlier jl777 had estimated the following:

- 64 GB RAM
- 300GB SSD
- ddos protection via second node
- good bandwidth

On top of those you must get enough votes from the KMD stakeholders to get elected to run a notary node. So you will have to campaign and assure that you are the best person to run a notary node.

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September 16, 2016, 02:12:31 PM
 #724


Thanks for comprehensive answer, your model is very well thought out. Will there be some minimum stake required to run a notary node like dash, or is the vote the single determinant? How notary node operators are selected and governed to keep komodo decentralised will be critical, I look forward to more details on that when you have them.

Like jl777 already explained there won't be any minimum stake required, but the notary nodes have to meet certain requirements. Earlier jl777 had estimated the following:

- 64 GB RAM
- 300GB SSD
- ddos protection via second node
- good bandwidth

On top of those you must get enough votes from the KMD stakeholders to get elected to run a notary node. So you will have to campaign and assure that you are the best person to run a notary node.
I plan to benchmark each candidate's servers and that info would be made part of the election process, along with any candidate statements, their stake, etc.

Thinking through the voting process, which clearly is quite important, I think a lot of voters wont feel comfortable voting on what is a somewhat technical matter. It is one thing to vote based on the location of a node, but how to compare technical differences?

So, what I have come up with is 3 different ways to vote.
1) direct voting
2) random vote
3) voting for a representative who is direct voting

Unlike with normal elections (well maybe for those too), there is value in voting for a random candidate. this prevents concentration of power. Not sure if I will have time to create the two stage representative system, but maybe it wont be that much work to have specific addresses commit to making a direct vote. Given that commitment, then others can just give their voting power to such a representative.

In the event a representative doesnt vote or in turn uses a representative, can probably just fallback to random vote. That avoids infinite loops of dependencies and prevents loss of voting power.

Now is the time to speak up if you have ideas on voting as I am working on it.

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September 16, 2016, 02:27:36 PM
 #725

Want to hear bounty info. Please specify them.

We had translation bounties, those are all now reserved.

We will have a signature campaign that will begin shortly: today or tomorrow at the latest.

Is the Chinese on reserved? I want to translate English into Chinese, just reserve it. thanks.
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September 16, 2016, 02:34:59 PM
 #726

Want to hear bounty info. Please specify them.

We had translation bounties, those are all now reserved.

We will have a signature campaign that will begin shortly: today or tomorrow at the latest.

Is the Chinese on reserved? I want to translate English into Chinese, just reserve it. thanks.

Sorry it's already translated! All the languages are now reserved and most already translated.

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September 16, 2016, 03:50:31 PM
 #727


Question about BTCD swap:
I understood that all of those 90% of KMD will be sold for BTC/BTCD investors, but how do you guys know how much KMD:s will be given to BTC investors, since you don't know how many BTCD owners will swap in 1 year swapping period? Or do you plan to wait 1 year and then share the percents, when we know how much to give BTC investors and how many to BTCD swappers?


James I have another question.
There are going to be 100 million KMD for ICO
Let's say (in simple way) there are 1000 people who give 1 BTC each. Will they get 100,000 KMD each (100 million / 1000)
and if there are 30000 people who give 1 BTC each they get 3333 KMD each?

In other words all of those 100 million will go to those who buy?

90 % of the Komodo coins are distributed to investors (BTC+BTCD)
10 % will be reserved for development, advisers and bounties

So yes, you got the basic idea! The supply is fixed, but we don't know yet how much money Komodo raises.


*snip*

We will assume all the BTCD will be redeemed. If after a year it isnt, it would just go into working capital

There is something here I can't wrap my head around... even tho it seems it has been explained quite a lot, but still is convoluted like shit. (!)

Exactly how much KMD of the 90m are going to be reserved to BTCD holders?

If it is assumed all BTCD will be redeemed, (1,286,569*0.0053=6818 BTC) and 7k BTC are collected,

1.- Isn´t that unfair for BTC investors, who will get the bonus only if they risk investing during the ICO, and on top of that they will be the ones financing the project with real cash (BTC), and not some illiquid coin with no volume nor demand not to talk about future?

2.- What if 30k BTC are collected?

3.- Is then the real limit of BTC collected 36818 BTC or is it 23182 BTC ? (30k - 6818  = 23182 BTC)

If it is the former the dilution will be even more damaging for BTC investors, increasing their risk to lose money (!)

4.- Why is that real limit not especified in the OP?


5.- Isn´t that a sneaky way to dilute BTC investors stake (!) and having more working capital than the 10% stated?

(we know statistically there is going ot be an important chunk of ppl who wont swap their BTCD, either they died, lost control over the coins, simply forgot they have them etc,.)

6.- Why not limit the amount of KMD available to swap for BTCD and the time to do the actual swap as is done with BTC investors? Wouldn´t be that more fair?
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September 16, 2016, 05:50:04 PM
 #728

What's your problem man? Got problem with not having BTCD? - buy some. You welcome.


There is something here I can't wrap my head around... even tho it seems it has been explained quite a lot, but still is convoluted like shit. (!)

Exactly how much KMD of the 90m are going to be reserved to BTCD holders?

If it is assumed all BTCD will be redeemed, (1,286,569*0.0053=6818 BTC) and 7k BTC are collected,

1.- Isn´t that unfair for BTC investors, who will get the bonus only if they risk investing during the ICO, and on top of that they will be the ones financing the project with real cash (BTC), and not some illiquid coin with no volume nor demand not to talk about future?

2.- What if 30k BTC are collected?

3.- Is then the real limit of BTC collected 36818 BTC or is it 23182 BTC ? (30k - 6818  = 23182 BTC)

If it is the former the dilution will be even more damaging for BTC investors, increasing their risk to lose money (!)

4.- Why is that real limit not especified in the OP?


5.- Isn´t that a sneaky way to dilute BTC investors stake (!) and having more working capital than the 10% stated?

(we know statistically there is going ot be an important chunk of ppl who wont swap their BTCD, either they died, lost control over the coins, simply forgot they have them etc,.)

6.- Why not limit the amount of KMD available to swap for BTCD and the time to do the actual swap as is done with BTC investors? Wouldn´t be that more fair?


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September 16, 2016, 06:05:20 PM
 #729

What makes komodo any better than monero, which is clearly the front runner at the moment for darknet payment. Please use laymen terms if possible.

I dont have BTCD and dont plan on getting any. This seems after following this thread for a month now that it's just a way to swap old for new, and those with old are HEAVILY compensated.

Not sure what to think. I want to invest, but doesn't feel right..
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September 16, 2016, 06:51:55 PM
 #730

What's your problem man? Got problem with reading comprehension? - read again. You welcome.


What's your problem man? Got problem with not having BTCD? - buy some. You welcome.


There is something here I can't wrap my head around... even tho it seems it has been explained quite a lot, but still is convoluted like shit. (!)

Exactly how much KMD of the 90m are going to be reserved to BTCD holders?

If it is assumed all BTCD will be redeemed, (1,286,569*0.0053=6818 BTC) and 7k BTC are collected,

1.- Isn´t that unfair for BTC investors, who will get the bonus only if they risk investing during the ICO, and on top of that they will be the ones financing the project with real cash (BTC), and not some illiquid coin with no volume nor demand not to talk about future?

2.- What if 30k BTC are collected?

3.- Is then the real limit of BTC collected 36818 BTC or is it 23182 BTC ? (30k - 6818  = 23182 BTC)

If it is the former the dilution will be even more damaging for BTC investors, increasing their risk to lose money (!)

4.- Why is that real limit not especified in the OP?


5.- Isn´t that a sneaky way to dilute BTC investors stake (!) and having more working capital than the 10% stated?

(we know statistically there is going ot be an important chunk of ppl who wont swap their BTCD, either they died, lost control over the coins, simply forgot they have them etc,.)

6.- Why not limit the amount of KMD available to swap for BTCD and the time to do the actual swap as is done with BTC investors? Wouldn´t be that more fair?

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September 16, 2016, 09:56:13 PM
 #731

Made it into The Merkle

http://themerkle.com/komodo-platform-launches-new-consensus-mechanism/

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September 17, 2016, 12:44:56 AM
 #732

What makes komodo any better than monero, which is clearly the front runner at the moment for darknet payment. Please use laymen terms if possible.

I dont have BTCD and dont plan on getting any. This seems after following this thread for a month now that it's just a way to swap old for new, and those with old are HEAVILY compensated.

Not sure what to think. I want to invest, but doesn't feel right..


What makes komodo better than monero is the way privacy is enacted.   Monero's privacy is based on ring signatures, Which is to say that it obfuscates who is actually doing the transaction by presenting the tx  signed by a group of equally valid keys  where only one is the real one and there is no way to tell the difference between them.   As jl777  has mentioned earlier in this post  that with the amount of signatures being  between 3-10  it is a feasible to brute force which keys are whose  thereby breaking the privacy.   Another attack I could see being done is by the principle of exclusion,   for example,  if a ring signature is consisting of 3 signatures  and i control 2 of those, then i can deduce the third is the person under surveillance. 

Komodo's privacy is accomplished with Zero Knowledge Proofs,   A Zero Knowledge Proof goes something like this:   Say I had two balls,  one was red and one was green  but i couldn't tell the difference because i was colorblind.  But you are not colorblind and can tell the difference.  I would challenge you to guess with 100% accuracy which ball was which when i would put them behind my back and mixed them around and presented them back to you.  Being that you can see the difference ( can tell which one is red and which is green) and that no matter what could tell which one was which,   despite my zero-knowledge ( inability to discern the color of the balls )   you have proved there was a difference ( 100% accuracy on choosing which ball was which no matter what way i switched them ).    Komodo uses Zcash's zk-SNARKS to accomplish this,  not to get long winded about it, but it essentially works out to being that you necessarily have to complete certain steps to do a tx,  it proves to the receipant   that the tx is legit   while at the same time being secured through encryption from outside viewers.

As for heavily compensated,  that depends on how you look at it.    On one hand  yes there are nice bonuses for btcd holders  but on the other  the percentage they hold  compared to what it was when btcd was the coin  is now alot lower.   Its a tradeoff   neither way  100% satisfies both parties  but it is an equitable solution to the problem of compensating original investors and incentivizing new investors to participate
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September 17, 2016, 01:47:43 AM
 #733

Monero's privacy is based on ring signatures....it is a feasible to brute force which keys are whose  thereby breaking the privacy.

Please elaborate on exactly what definition of "feasible" you are using.

Or are you just parroting what ICOscam777 told you, with no understanding cryptanalysis involved?


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September 17, 2016, 02:36:27 AM
 #734

https://eprint.iacr.org/2005/304.pdf

end of page 4, beginning of page 5.  then continue on to page 8

section on adversarially-generated keys.

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September 17, 2016, 07:43:46 AM
 #735

Hi all!

I have read the thread and you guys seems to have good package with Komodo and there was lot of things that I liked. Although few concerns came up to my mind. I know the whitepaper is not ready yet, but maybe somebody have info already.

- Scalability
If thinking about further, and larger adoption of Komodo usage, how it will handle the rising transaction amounts?
Is it dependent to Bitcoin scalability? Everybody knows it's going to be slow process to scale that platform up.

Dependency with zcash:
So if something goes wrong with the zcash development, and it don't get ready any time soon, it's going to delay the release of Komodo mainnet also, right? In my view, there's discussions about zcash platform and will it be the right thing to do.

Question about BTCD swap:
I understood that all of those 90% of KMD will be sold for BTC/BTCD investors, but how do you guys know how much KMD:s will be given to BTC investors, since you don't know how many BTCD owners will swap in 1 year swapping period? Or do you plan to wait 1 year and then share the percents, when we know how much to give BTC investors and how many to BTCD swappers?


James I have another question.
There are going to be 100 million KMD for ICO
Let's say (in simple way) there are 1000 people who give 1 BTC each. Will they get 100,000 KMD each (100 million / 1000)
and if there are 30000 people who give 1 BTC each they get 3333 KMD each?

In other words all of those 100 million will go to those who buy?

90 % of the Komodo coins are distributed to investors (BTC+BTCD)
10 % will be reserved for development, advisers and bounties

So yes, you got the basic idea! The supply is fixed, but we don't know yet how much money Komodo raises.

I have factored in bitcoin scalability issues by budgeting significantly increased txfees. So if bitcoin cant manage to increase to 2MB blocksize, then we just pay higher fees. Since komodo will then be doing the bitcoin notarization, other chains/users of dPoW via komodo wont have to worry about the bitcoin side. So komodo should actually moderate the bitcoin scaling problem.

zcash has a beta release now and the other day I made a komodo testnet based on it. Of course if zcash team decides to delay for whatever reason, I would defer to their judgement. They are one very sharp team. While this does create a bit of uncertainity as to when the mainnet can be released, it does justify the early bird bonuses.

We will assume all the BTCD will be redeemed. If after a year it isnt, it would just go into working capital


i expect - but yet for a simple c programmer... are you ready to step into another playground.

Zcash and even NXT protocol is not your usual playground...

Java seems not to be so much an issue, i get it you are impressed with the POS..

are you porting anything to c? zcash also is not C pure.

Lots of new peer2peer tech is coming out is in functional programming.

I am looking forward to Komodo, I am in 1/3 my portfolio.

JL777 always has great ideas. this maybe the actual end product .

Between you and Dirk i am excited...


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September 17, 2016, 08:12:40 AM
 #736

Thanks!!
Tweeted!! https://twitter.com/KomodoPlatform/status/777057482892054528 Smiley





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FruitBucket
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September 17, 2016, 09:26:36 AM
 #737

How are the public SNARK properties being generated?

More info here: https://z.cash/blog/snark-parameters.html

jl777
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September 17, 2016, 09:27:15 AM
 #738

How are the public SNARK properties being generated?

More info here: https://z.cash/blog/snark-parameters.html
The same snark parameters as zcash is used.

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
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September 17, 2016, 09:32:22 AM
 #739

1.- Isn´t that unfair for BTC investors, who will get the bonus only if they risk investing during the ICO, and on top of that they will be the ones financing the project with real cash (BTC), and not some illiquid coin with no volume nor demand not to talk about future?

BTCD investors have already invested, even before the ICO has started. The earlier you invest, the more risk there is and thus we have the bonus system.

What people consider fair and unfair is quite subjective, we have tried to make it as fair as possible for everyone.


3.- Is then the real limit of BTC collected 36818 BTC or is it 23182 BTC ? (30k - 6818  = 23182 BTC)

It is the 36818 BTC. The 30 000 cap is for BTC investments.


4.- Why is that real limit not especified in the OP?[/b]
It is not really a limit. There is only one limit, and that is for the bitcoin: 30 000 BTC

We know that the BTCD's are worth ~6800 BTC in the ICO, and that info is of course relevant. We now included that calculation in the announcement!


5.- Isn´t that a sneaky way to dilute BTC investors stake (!) and having more working capital than the 10% stated?

The amount of KMD not redeemed should stay at a very negligible level compared to the total funds raised. Redistributing those KMD's would make things overly complicated. We have to also remember, that those unredeemed KMD coins are there only after one full year.


6.- Why not limit the amount of KMD available to swap for BTCD and the time to do the actual swap as is done with BTC investors? Wouldn´t be that more fair?

There are some investors who might not follow developments that closely, so it would be very unfair towards them if we just announce a new ICO with a couple month timewindow to swap ... or else they lose their investment.

We want to honor our investors: current and future ones.

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September 17, 2016, 01:26:14 PM
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