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Le Happy Merchant
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March 30, 2013, 01:52:26 PM |
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If I just did a calculation with my ass, it's gonna make the complexity roughly O(m*log(n)) instead of O(log(n)), and m could be easily larger than log(n).
I suspect there are many badly-programmed bots relying on this out there.
If m > log(n) > 1 this is bad for the complexity. If 1 > m > log(n) this is good for the complexity. What are you trying to say? |
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Bitcoin mining is now a specialized and very risky industry, just like gold mining. Amateur miners are unlikely to make much money, and may even lose money. Bitcoin is much more than just mining, though!
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SkRRJyTC
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Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
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March 30, 2013, 02:20:55 PM |
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Are there people actively taking advantage of this deficiency? Gox is lagging even if there are only several orders being placed in total, WTF?
Would be silly not to take advantage, since it is extremely easy. |
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hgmichna
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March 31, 2013, 04:11:14 PM |
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Not allowing users to place an order if they do not have the funds at the time the order is placed seems wrong to me. The order needs the funds only when it is executed, not before. Consider that Mt.Gox is there to fulfill its users' needs, not the other way around. Provided, of course, that the users pay appropriately for the service.
The user could have a combination of orders that works, even though not all orders are funded beforehand. There could be sufficient funds coming in before an order is executed. I see no need to check funding before an order is actually executed. I would not complain if they did that though. They can do what they like, as long as they don't alienate their users.
I do see a need though for a fixed base fee for transactions, like every other online broker has. If necessary, there could even be a base fee for placing an order or a punishment fee for trying to execute an unfunded order. It seems that Mt.Gox is wasting their limited computer power on lots of tiny nuisance orders. The whole bitcoin system is not designed for large numbers of tiny transactions. There is a block size limit, for example. Bitcoin is not a micro-payment system. This will become ever more obvious as bitcoin trade volume grows.
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molecular (OP)
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Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
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March 31, 2013, 04:38:30 PM |
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Not allowing users to place an order if they do not have the funds at the time the order is placed seems wrong to me. The order needs the funds only when it is executed, not before. Consider that Mt.Gox is there to fulfill its users' needs, not the other way around. Provided, of course, that the users pay appropriately for the service.
The user could have a combination of orders that works, even though not all orders are funded beforehand. There could be sufficient funds coming in before an order is executed. I see no need to check funding before an order is actually executed. I would not complain if they did that though. They can do what they like, as long as they don't alienate their users.
I do see a need though for a fixed base fee for transactions, like every other online broker has. If necessary, there could even be a base fee for placing an order or a punishment fee for trying to execute an unfunded order. It seems that Mt.Gox is wasting their limited computer power on lots of tiny nuisance orders. The whole bitcoin system is not designed for large numbers of tiny transactions. There is a block size limit, for example. Bitcoin is not a micro-payment system. This will become ever more obvious as bitcoin trade volume grows.
I see the need to check funding of order before they are displayed in the public order book. Unfunded order should not be in the book because they cannot be fulfilled. |
PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0 3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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dancingnancy
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March 31, 2013, 06:17:29 PM |
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Not allowing users to place an order if they do not have the funds at the time the order is placed seems wrong to me. The order needs the funds only when it is executed, not before. Consider that Mt.Gox is there to fulfill its users' needs, not the other way around. Provided, of course, that the users pay appropriately for the service.
The user could have a combination of orders that works, even though not all orders are funded beforehand. There could be sufficient funds coming in before an order is executed. I see no need to check funding before an order is actually executed. I would not complain if they did that though. They can do what they like, as long as they don't alienate their users.
I do see a need though for a fixed base fee for transactions, like every other online broker has. If necessary, there could even be a base fee for placing an order or a punishment fee for trying to execute an unfunded order. It seems that Mt.Gox is wasting their limited computer power on lots of tiny nuisance orders. The whole bitcoin system is not designed for large numbers of tiny transactions. There is a block size limit, for example. Bitcoin is not a micro-payment system. This will become ever more obvious as bitcoin trade volume grows.
I see the need to check funding of order before they are displayed in the public order book. Unfunded order should not be in the book because they cannot be fulfilled. True. This is what bitcoinica was doing as well, IIRC. You could post anything you wanted to the order book, but it was another thing if you had the money in your account. Seems entirely messed up, not really sure what to think about all that. |
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myself
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Activity: 938
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chaos is fun...…damental :)
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March 31, 2013, 06:51:28 PM |
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well in stock and forex u cant advertise that you want to buy or sell a currency or a stock if you dont freaking owned it first
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Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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molecular (OP)
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March 31, 2013, 08:46:22 PM |
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well in stock and forex u cant advertise that you want to buy or sell a currency or a stock if you dont freaking owned it first
what about naked short selling? |
PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0 3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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shmadz
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@theshmadz
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April 01, 2013, 03:59:57 AM |
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Not familiar with Gox.
Over at virtex, every bid or ask that you place puts that money into escrow. so if you don't have the money (ex. if I want to buy right now, but all my money is tied up in lower bids) I have to cancel some bids to free up the money.
From the sounds of it, this is not the way it works at Gox?
Is the escrow system just dumb? or is it something that Gox will have to implement to get around this problem?
(was thinking of trying Gox out, once coinlab takes over Can/US payments, since virtex % is ridiculous (they started out at 0.6% - now they're up to 3% for low volume accounts)
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"You have no moral right to rule us, nor do you possess any methods of enforcement that we have reason to fear." - John Perry Barlow, 1996
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hgmichna
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April 01, 2013, 09:52:41 AM |
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Not familiar with Gox.
Over at virtex, every bid or ask that you place puts that money into escrow. so if you don't have the money (ex. if I want to buy right now, but all my money is tied up in lower bids) I have to cancel some bids to free up the money.
From the sounds of it, this is not the way it works at Gox?
Is the escrow system just dumb? or is it something that Gox will have to implement to get around this problem? […]
From what I have read here, Mt.Gox allows orders without complete funding. In my view this is not a problem, unless users heavily overuse this feature. But Mt.Gox could protect itself against this easily, as they have the whole account history and could easily put up a simple rule that prevents the overuse of this feature. As I have mentioned before, their real problem is the large number of tiny nuisance orders. I think they should first demand a small fixed fee for each order or for each transaction to get rid of micro-orders. |
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myself
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Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
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April 02, 2013, 02:29:45 AM |
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well in stock and forex u cant advertise that you want to buy or sell a currency or a stock if you dont freaking owned it first
what about naked short selling? you cant do that no broker allow you to do that |
Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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hgmichna
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April 02, 2013, 06:33:19 AM |
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well in stock and forex u cant advertise that you want to buy or sell a currency or a stock if you dont freaking owned it first
what about naked short selling? you cant do that no broker allow you to do that Outside bitcoin it is normal within some reasonable margin, so I'd expect it to become normal for bitcoin too, as soon as the bitcoin market is a bit more stable and mature. |
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