The battle over online privacy (Dash / Monero / Zcash)

[dinofelis]

can't they all coexist?

My opinion is they can but they won't. It also better if developers compete with each other so they can improve their coins much faster and come up with the best open source technology for everyone to use in the cryprosphere. Also the drama is very entertaining.

As there is always an existential doubt in cryptography, it is usually best not to have all eggs in one basket.  But the most important thing is that *finally* the anonymity/fungibility aspect starts to get taken seriously, after all the bells and whistles of smart contracts and other stuff.    The anonymity thing (or lack thereof) with bitcoin is always what refrained me from being too overly enthusiastic of bitcoin itself.  I saw it as a step back as compared to cash, and a very dangerous one, because of the graving in stone for eternity.   30 years later, all your transactions of the past are still visible.  People don't seem to realize how terrible that can be, especially because we don't know how the world powers will evolve.  This is something that chilled my spine when I realized it.

[1714002855]

1714002855

[1714002855]

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[coinism]

can't they all coexist?

My opinion is they can but they won't. It also better if developers compete with each other so they can improve their coins much faster and come up with the best open source technology for everyone to use in the cryprosphere. Also the drama is very entertaining.

bet on all of them seems to be the trick and enjoy the entertainment as you go along:)

[alanshore]

Not to beat a dead horse but this again why it is more important than ever for privacy centric cryptos to work together rather than bashing each other.

Here is the direct link to EFF article that was quoted:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government


Again, the equation is pretty simple. We squabble, the world becomes like 1984. We unite, we at least have a chance of forcing their hand.

The majority of discussion has been using facts to base claims about Dash and Monero.

"Bashing" is the term used when the opposing side of the discussion does not like how the discussion is going so they play the victim card.

A lot of people appear to have missed the point in my original post asking both communities to be more cooperative. They can still compete and use that competition to innovate and they can still critique the other technology. What I believe needs to happen though for cryptos in general to succeed is to do this in a more professional and jovial manner.

You are correct that some of the discussions have used facts and have been productive but a lot of the conversations have also been without facts and very childish.

Here is just one of many examples that I do believe is "bashing" as it does not reference facts, evidence or data of any kind and instead uses verbiage like "scam" and "snakeoil".

https://imgur.com/a/IiwTb

Here is another example where "DashHole" is used.

https://imgur.com/a/fl4jX

It is a known problem that members of the Monero community actively make aggressive claims about other technology without providing evidence to back these claims up. In the last example, one of the Monero team is quoted in stating they cannot control members of their community. That is true and I believe stifling free speech always leads to bad outcomes so that is not something I am advocating for in anyway.

The one thing that can be done is for someone from the Monero team to make a statement that they do not support members of their community making claims without providing evidence. They could make that post in this thread and it won't have to be mentioned again. That way at least myself and others in the Monero community, including the aggressors, will know that the Monero team does not support this behavior and then hopefully we can move forward together in advocating for the adoption of cryptos.

By remaining silent, they are endorsing this behavior and it is off putting and unprofessional.

I have been investing and watching both Monero and Dash for over two years and am continuously embarrassed to be part of a community that acts so childish when so much is at stake. I have been vocal as of late as I am becoming increasingly worried at the direction our society is moving and believe that cooperation is more necessary now than it ever has been.


Speaking of stifling free speech, I was extremely disappointed that my plea to the Monero and Dash communities was censored on the Monero subreddit: http://imgur.com/a/Cqnz1

My plea is still on the bitcointalk Monero thread which is great but I'm not sure I understand why it was removed on the Monero subreddit.

It is a little hypocritical that the Monero team believes it cannot control certain members of its community but then actively censors other members of that same community that are only trying to bring a stop to the unproductive hostility.


I believe both communities should let the past be the past and open a new door towards cooperation but we cannot do that without the leaders setting an example for others to follow.

[arielbit]

Not to beat a dead horse but this again why it is more important than ever for privacy centric cryptos to work together rather than bashing each other.

Here is the direct link to EFF article that was quoted:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government


Again, the equation is pretty simple. We squabble, the world becomes like 1984. We unite, we at least have a chance of forcing their hand.

The majority of discussion has been using facts to base claims about Dash and Monero.

"Bashing" is the term used when the opposing side of the discussion does not like how the discussion is going so they play the victim card.

A lot of people appear to have missed the point in my original post asking both communities to be more cooperative. They can still compete and use that competition to innovate and they can still critique the other technology. What I believe needs to happen though for cryptos in general to succeed is to do this in a more professional and jovial manner.

You are correct that some of the discussions have used facts and have been productive but a lot of the conversations have also been without facts and very childish.

Here is just one of many examples that I do believe is "bashing" as it does not reference facts, evidence or data of any kind and instead uses verbiage like "scam" and "snakeoil".



Here is another example where "DashHole" is used.



It is a known problem that members of the Monero community actively make aggressive claims about other technology without providing evidence to back these claims up. In the last example, one of the Monero team is quoted in stating they cannot control members of their community. That is true and I believe stifling free speech always leads to bad outcomes so that is not something I am advocating for in anyway.

The one thing that can be done is for someone from the Monero team to make a statement that they do not support members of their community making claims without providing evidence. They could make that post in this thread and it won't have to be mentioned again. That way at least myself and others in the Monero community, including the aggressors, will know that the Monero team does not support this behavior and then hopefully we can move forward together in advocating for the adoption of cryptos.

By remaining silent, they are endorsing this behavior and it is off putting and unprofessional.

I have been investing and watching both Monero and Dash for over two years and am continuously embarrassed to be part of a community that acts so childish when so much is at stake. I have been vocal as of late as I am becoming increasingly worried at the direction our society is moving and believe that cooperation is more necessary now than it ever has been.


Speaking of stifling free speech, I was extremely disappointed that my plea to the Monero and Dash communities was censored on the Monero subreddit: http://imgur.com/a/Cqnz1

My plea is still on the bitcointalk Monero thread which is great but I'm not sure I understand why it was removed on the Monero subreddit.

It is a little hypocritical that the Monero team believes it cannot control certain members of its community but then actively censors other members of that same community that are only trying to bring a stop to the unproductive hostility.


I believe both communities should let the past be the past and open a new door towards cooperation but we cannot do that without the leaders setting an example for others to follow.

As the topic of why masternode owners are likely long term investors was brought up, I'm happy to chime in.

During the day I'm a derivatives trader. I really don't trust our markets so I never hold futures contracts for very long and whenever I do invest in something for the long term, I am always looking for the most yield with the least amount of risk.

Currently, I could park my money in treasuries, bonds, dividend paying stocks or even write my own options. What becomes fairly apparent when looking into all of these though is that the yield on both the safer and riskier investments is so low right now that at this point in time, they don't make a lot of sense unless those are your only options.

While Dash is not the only crypto I hold, it is currently the only one that does offer an inviting yield on your investment. On my masternodes I currently make 10% annual ROI. About 1.75% of that does get taken away whenever I convert masternode payments back to fiat due to various exchange fees but the remaining 8.25% is still a fantastic return.

While I know this is anecdotal evidence, I do think its safe to assume that a good portion of other masternode owners have performed a similar assessment of what will offer the greatest "guaranteed" ROI and chose to invest in Dash and its masternodes because of this. All investments have risks and your initial investment could go down in value. Dash is no exception but considering that I actually have voting power as to the direction of my investment, I feel comfortable holding Dash for the long term over lets say Intel or Apple stock where I could be earning a much smaller dividend with lower risk but would not have the same voting power.

Without incentivized nodes, I am beginning to doubt the long term viability of other currencies as I think they will eventually face the same problems that bitcoin is now. I really hope more currencies begin to incorporate incentivized nodes and I know there are several that are.

  i know you have investments in dash masternodes..and threats to dash is also a threat to your investment...i understand that.

BUT..you cannot strip humans of their emotions.. i recommend putting on your "dash t-shirt" and drink your coffee from "dash mug" and let's have some fun  

[alanshore]

Not to beat a dead horse but this again why it is more important than ever for privacy centric cryptos to work together rather than bashing each other.

Here is the direct link to EFF article that was quoted:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government


Again, the equation is pretty simple. We squabble, the world becomes like 1984. We unite, we at least have a chance of forcing their hand.

The majority of discussion has been using facts to base claims about Dash and Monero.

"Bashing" is the term used when the opposing side of the discussion does not like how the discussion is going so they play the victim card.

A lot of people appear to have missed the point in my original post asking both communities to be more cooperative. They can still compete and use that competition to innovate and they can still critique the other technology. What I believe needs to happen though for cryptos in general to succeed is to do this in a more professional and jovial manner.

You are correct that some of the discussions have used facts and have been productive but a lot of the conversations have also been without facts and very childish.

Here is just one of many examples that I do believe is "bashing" as it does not reference facts, evidence or data of any kind and instead uses verbiage like "scam" and "snakeoil".

https://imgur.com/a/IiwTb

Here is another example where "DashHole" is used.

https://imgur.com/a/fl4jX

It is a known problem that members of the Monero community actively make aggressive claims about other technology without providing evidence to back these claims up. In the last example, one of the Monero team is quoted in stating they cannot control members of their community. That is true and I believe stifling free speech always leads to bad outcomes so that is not something I am advocating for in anyway.

The one thing that can be done is for someone from the Monero team to make a statement that they do not support members of their community making claims without providing evidence. They could make that post in this thread and it won't have to be mentioned again. That way at least myself and others in the Monero community, including the aggressors, will know that the Monero team does not support this behavior and then hopefully we can move forward together in advocating for the adoption of cryptos.

By remaining silent, they are endorsing this behavior and it is off putting and unprofessional.

I have been investing and watching both Monero and Dash for over two years and am continuously embarrassed to be part of a community that acts so childish when so much is at stake. I have been vocal as of late as I am becoming increasingly worried at the direction our society is moving and believe that cooperation is more necessary now than it ever has been.


Speaking of stifling free speech, I was extremely disappointed that my plea to the Monero and Dash communities was censored on the Monero subreddit: http://imgur.com/a/Cqnz1

My plea is still on the bitcointalk Monero thread which is great but I'm not sure I understand why it was removed on the Monero subreddit.

It is a little hypocritical that the Monero team believes it cannot control certain members of its community but then actively censors other members of that same community that are only trying to bring a stop to the unproductive hostility.


I believe both communities should let the past be the past and open a new door towards cooperation but we cannot do that without the leaders setting an example for others to follow.

As the topic of why masternode owners are likely long term investors was brought up, I'm happy to chime in.

During the day I'm a derivatives trader. I really don't trust our markets so I never hold futures contracts for very long and whenever I do invest in something for the long term, I am always looking for the most yield with the least amount of risk.

Currently, I could park my money in treasuries, bonds, dividend paying stocks or even write my own options. What becomes fairly apparent when looking into all of these though is that the yield on both the safer and riskier investments is so low right now that at this point in time, they don't make a lot of sense unless those are your only options.

While Dash is not the only crypto I hold, it is currently the only one that does offer an inviting yield on your investment. On my masternodes I currently make 10% annual ROI. About 1.75% of that does get taken away whenever I convert masternode payments back to fiat due to various exchange fees but the remaining 8.25% is still a fantastic return.

While I know this is anecdotal evidence, I do think its safe to assume that a good portion of other masternode owners have performed a similar assessment of what will offer the greatest "guaranteed" ROI and chose to invest in Dash and its masternodes because of this. All investments have risks and your initial investment could go down in value. Dash is no exception but considering that I actually have voting power as to the direction of my investment, I feel comfortable holding Dash for the long term over lets say Intel or Apple stock where I could be earning a much smaller dividend with lower risk but would not have the same voting power.

Without incentivized nodes, I am beginning to doubt the long term viability of other currencies as I think they will eventually face the same problems that bitcoin is now. I really hope more currencies begin to incorporate incentivized nodes and I know there are several that are.

  i know you have investments in dash masternodes..and threats to dash is also a threat to your investment...i understand that.

BUT..you cannot strip humans of their emotions.. i recommend putting on your "dash t-shirt" and drink your coffee from "dash mug" and let's have some fun  

I have made it clear from the beginning that most of my cash worth is spread between Monero and Dash. More recently, I've been making a whole lot more money in Monero than I have Dash but making money has never been the point. The ROI that Dash masternodes offer is just a bonus, as is the money I have been making in Monero, both of which I still plan to hold long term. I do not want a "dash t-shirt" or a "dash mug". I just want everyone to expand their scope of thinking and see everyone in the crypto space as being part of the same group and begin to treat each other with respect. While it is impossible to strip humans of their emotions and would be counter-productive to do so, I think we can hold everyone to a higher standard.

I believe in both currencies and the point that everyone continues to miss, including you, is that this is much larger than "my" investments.

This is about changing the way our species makes transactions and about giving everyone freedom which I really do not think we have been able to experience in our entire history. Decentralization was not technically feasible until just recently and now we have a chance to change the underlying systems of our civilization. But in order to do this, we have to overcome a lot of barriers and will have to engage with a lot of organizations that have billions of dollars at stake if the status quo was to change. They are not going to give up easily and quite frankly have not even started to fight us. The combined marketcap of the top 100 cryptos is only 12 billion. Do you know what that is to Goldman Sachs? 3 months worth of earnings. Do you know what that is to Apple? 1 / 50th of their market cap. They have not started to fight us because we are barely a threat.

We will be though and that is when the real battle will begin and I believe that is right around the corner. We need to get our ducks in a row and stop our in fighting so we can get organized for what lies ahead. Constructive criticism is great. Name calling, unsubstantiated claims and posts without links to evidence or that are phrased in an aggressive or childish way only serve to widen our divisions when we need to be doing the exact opposite.

Would any of this behavior be tolerated in the business world? Would any of this be tolerated at any reputable firm? The answer is clearly no and these are the very entrenched systems that we are up against. They will walk all over us as we try to push adoption if we do not change the way we present ourselves.

There is nothing "fun" about the direction our world is heading nor is there anything "fun" about the way that millions of people suffer under the existing monopolies of banks and remittance companies. I believe that each persons life is inherently meaningless and that it is up to the individual to give meaning to their own life through their actions. We, as supporters of cryptos have an opportunity to make a real change and I urge everyone to think of the big picture and act accordingly.

[Sir Alpha_goy]

More like "The battle of the scams"

Who can make the most monkeys fling their poo the furthest.

The only way to liquidate anon coins is to give all your credentials to an exchange.

DNA, ip, or ID.

PICK YOUR SERVILE POISON.

How ironic.

Exchange one handler for another.

If you want your old handler you can keep your old handler.......

[alanshore]

More like "The battle of the scams"

Who can make the most monkeys fling their poo the furthest.

The only way to liquidate anon coins is to give all your credentials to an exchange.

DNA, ip, or ID.

PICK YOUR SERVILE POISON.

How ironic.

Exchange one handler for another.

If you want your old handler you can keep your old handler.......

But it doesn't have to be this way. If we push for adoption by more real merchants, we could actually spend our anonymous currency just as we can spend cash in person. This push for adoption will require teamwork though which is exactly what is lacking in this current environment.

[Sir Alpha_goy]

More like "The battle of the scams"

Who can make the most monkeys fling their poo the furthest.

The only way to liquidate anon coins is to give all your credentials to an exchange.

DNA, ip, or ID.

PICK YOUR SERVILE POISON.

How ironic.

Exchange one handler for another.

If you want your old handler you can keep your old handler.......

But it doesn't have to be this way. If we push for adoption by more real merchants, we could actually spend our anonymous currency just as we can spend cash in person. This push for adoption will require teamwork though which is exactly what is lacking in this current environment.

Nope.

It does.

The double decker couch was a nice idea but I believe it was ditched in the end.

Time for the plan to progress.

[electronicash]

Its a good thing Dash moved away from darknet and that Dash privacy solution is totally optional.  

I lolled so hard at this, wtf, this is the best joke ever...

come on man, you can't be serious...

now Dash is better cuz the privacy is optional... newsflash, xmr's privacy is optional too, with the viewkey...

you know why those dnm's didn't choose Dash, cuz the privacy features are inherently flawed, not optional, but flawed...


I really wonder if you were able to keep a straight face when starting this topic... I lolled really hard, thank you!

best regards

it may just be good for them to take out of that anonymous feature, I remember there was a beach resort that accepts DASH lately and so they are starting to be noticed and planned to be used by the masses. maybe they figure mass adoption can be much possible if privacy is taken out.

[arielbit]

Not to beat a dead horse but this again why it is more important than ever for privacy centric cryptos to work together rather than bashing each other.

Here is the direct link to EFF article that was quoted:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/rule-41-little-known-committee-proposes-grant-new-hacking-powers-government


Again, the equation is pretty simple. We squabble, the world becomes like 1984. We unite, we at least have a chance of forcing their hand.

The majority of discussion has been using facts to base claims about Dash and Monero.

"Bashing" is the term used when the opposing side of the discussion does not like how the discussion is going so they play the victim card.

A lot of people appear to have missed the point in my original post asking both communities to be more cooperative. They can still compete and use that competition to innovate and they can still critique the other technology. What I believe needs to happen though for cryptos in general to succeed is to do this in a more professional and jovial manner.

You are correct that some of the discussions have used facts and have been productive but a lot of the conversations have also been without facts and very childish.

Here is just one of many examples that I do believe is "bashing" as it does not reference facts, evidence or data of any kind and instead uses verbiage like "scam" and "snakeoil".



Here is another example where "DashHole" is used.



It is a known problem that members of the Monero community actively make aggressive claims about other technology without providing evidence to back these claims up. In the last example, one of the Monero team is quoted in stating they cannot control members of their community. That is true and I believe stifling free speech always leads to bad outcomes so that is not something I am advocating for in anyway.

The one thing that can be done is for someone from the Monero team to make a statement that they do not support members of their community making claims without providing evidence. They could make that post in this thread and it won't have to be mentioned again. That way at least myself and others in the Monero community, including the aggressors, will know that the Monero team does not support this behavior and then hopefully we can move forward together in advocating for the adoption of cryptos.

By remaining silent, they are endorsing this behavior and it is off putting and unprofessional.

I have been investing and watching both Monero and Dash for over two years and am continuously embarrassed to be part of a community that acts so childish when so much is at stake. I have been vocal as of late as I am becoming increasingly worried at the direction our society is moving and believe that cooperation is more necessary now than it ever has been.


Speaking of stifling free speech, I was extremely disappointed that my plea to the Monero and Dash communities was censored on the Monero subreddit: http://imgur.com/a/Cqnz1

My plea is still on the bitcointalk Monero thread which is great but I'm not sure I understand why it was removed on the Monero subreddit.

It is a little hypocritical that the Monero team believes it cannot control certain members of its community but then actively censors other members of that same community that are only trying to bring a stop to the unproductive hostility.


I believe both communities should let the past be the past and open a new door towards cooperation but we cannot do that without the leaders setting an example for others to follow.

As the topic of why masternode owners are likely long term investors was brought up, I'm happy to chime in.

During the day I'm a derivatives trader. I really don't trust our markets so I never hold futures contracts for very long and whenever I do invest in something for the long term, I am always looking for the most yield with the least amount of risk.

Currently, I could park my money in treasuries, bonds, dividend paying stocks or even write my own options. What becomes fairly apparent when looking into all of these though is that the yield on both the safer and riskier investments is so low right now that at this point in time, they don't make a lot of sense unless those are your only options.

While Dash is not the only crypto I hold, it is currently the only one that does offer an inviting yield on your investment. On my masternodes I currently make 10% annual ROI. About 1.75% of that does get taken away whenever I convert masternode payments back to fiat due to various exchange fees but the remaining 8.25% is still a fantastic return.

While I know this is anecdotal evidence, I do think its safe to assume that a good portion of other masternode owners have performed a similar assessment of what will offer the greatest "guaranteed" ROI and chose to invest in Dash and its masternodes because of this. All investments have risks and your initial investment could go down in value. Dash is no exception but considering that I actually have voting power as to the direction of my investment, I feel comfortable holding Dash for the long term over lets say Intel or Apple stock where I could be earning a much smaller dividend with lower risk but would not have the same voting power.

Without incentivized nodes, I am beginning to doubt the long term viability of other currencies as I think they will eventually face the same problems that bitcoin is now. I really hope more currencies begin to incorporate incentivized nodes and I know there are several that are.

  i know you have investments in dash masternodes..and threats to dash is also a threat to your investment...i understand that.

BUT..you cannot strip humans of their emotions.. i recommend putting on your "dash t-shirt" and drink your coffee from "dash mug" and let's have some fun  

I have made it clear from the beginning that most of my cash worth is spread between Monero and Dash. More recently, I've been making a whole lot more money in Monero than I have Dash but making money has never been the point. The ROI that Dash masternodes offer is just a bonus, as is the money I have been making in Monero, both of which I still plan to hold long term. I do not want a "dash t-shirt" or a "dash mug". I just want everyone to expand their scope of thinking and see everyone in the crypto space as being part of the same group and begin to treat each other with respect. While it is impossible to strip humans of their emotions and would be counter-productive to do so, I think we can hold everyone to a higher standard.

I believe in both currencies and the point that everyone continues to miss, including you, is that this is much larger than "my" investments.

This is about changing the way our species makes transactions and about giving everyone freedom which I really do not think we have been able to experience in our entire history. Decentralization was not technically feasible until just recently and now we have a chance to change the underlying systems of our civilization. But in order to do this, we have to overcome a lot of barriers and will have to engage with a lot of organizations that have billions of dollars at stake if the status quo was to change. They are not going to give up easily and quite frankly have not even started to fight us. The combined marketcap of the top 100 cryptos is only 12 billion. Do you know what that is to Goldman Sachs? 3 months worth of earnings. Do you know what that is to Apple? 1 / 50th of their market cap. They have not started to fight us because we are barely a threat.

We will be though and that is when the real battle will begin and I believe that is right around the corner. We need to get our ducks in a row and stop our in fighting so we can get organized for what lies ahead. Constructive criticism is great. Name calling, unsubstantiated claims and posts without links to evidence or that are phrased in an aggressive or childish way only serve to widen our divisions when we need to be doing the exact opposite.

Would any of this behavior be tolerated in the business world? Would any of this be tolerated at any reputable firm? The answer is clearly no and these are the very entrenched systems that we are up against. They will walk all over us as we try to push adoption if we do not change the way we present ourselves.

There is nothing "fun" about the direction our world is heading nor is there anything "fun" about the way that millions of people suffer under the existing monopolies of banks and remittance companies. I believe that each persons life is inherently meaningless and that it is up to the individual to give meaning to their own life through their actions. We, as supporters of cryptos have an opportunity to make a real change and I urge everyone to think of the big picture and act accordingly.

i have a different vision, i prefer fighting/competition..it makes each other stronger and innovative..

i even like attacks, i wanted monero attacked, DASH attacked, Bitcoin attacked... attack everywhere.. we don't want to release a crypto currency to the whole world that will fail and bring billions of $ down with it..

think of crypto like a bitcoin dojo with satoshi nakamoto as sensei

monero and dash are sparring partners, include zcash too..after they toughen up they will leave the bitcoin dojo and find their path in the world.

regarding shills, they are my favorites..i neutralize their lies and deception...i also have fun along the way  

regarding speculators, they are part of the ecosystem...people gamble, trade, invest, make a few bucks etc.. that's life.

[bbc.reporter]

...

i have a different vision, i prefer fighting/competition..it makes each other stronger and innovative..

i even like attacks, i wanted monero attacked, DASH attacked, Bitcoin attacked... attack everywhere.. we don't want to release a crypto currency to the whole world that will fail and bring billions of $ down with it..

think of crypto like a bitcoin dojo with satoshi nakamoto as sensei

monero and dash are sparring partners, include zcash too..after they toughen up they will leave the bitcoin dojo and find their path in the world.

regarding shills, they are my favorites..i neutralize their lies and deception...i also have fun along the way  

regarding speculators, they are part of the ecosystem...people gamble, trade, invest, make a few bucks etc.. that's life.

I like how you think my friend. This is a good and healthy way to think of the whole cryptosphere. Some coins and platforms will directly compete with each other and there is not way we can avoid that. What we can avoid doing is the bashing and the trolling and spreading of the FUD. Why not instead make constructive criticism?

You can also add vcash chain blender technique in the battle of anonymous transactions. They too might have something very useful for the cryptosphere.

[dwgscale11]

Litecoin will own them all when the time is right.. SOON

[arielbit]

...

i have a different vision, i prefer fighting/competition..it makes each other stronger and innovative..

i even like attacks, i wanted monero attacked, DASH attacked, Bitcoin attacked... attack everywhere.. we don't want to release a crypto currency to the whole world that will fail and bring billions of $ down with it..

think of crypto like a bitcoin dojo with satoshi nakamoto as sensei

monero and dash are sparring partners, include zcash too..after they toughen up they will leave the bitcoin dojo and find their path in the world.

regarding shills, they are my favorites..i neutralize their lies and deception...i also have fun along the way  

regarding speculators, they are part of the ecosystem...people gamble, trade, invest, make a few bucks etc.. that's life.

I like how you think my friend. This is a good and healthy way to think of the whole cryptosphere. Some coins and platforms will directly compete with each other and there is not way we can avoid that. What we can avoid doing is the bashing and the trolling and spreading of the FUD. Why not instead make constructive criticism?

You can also add vcash chain blender technique in the battle of anonymous transactions. They too might have something very useful for the cryptosphere.

Why not instead make constructive criticism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_criticism

Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one. The purpose of 'constructive criticism is to improve the outcome. In collaborative work, this kind of criticism is a valuable tool in raising and maintaining performance standards.

do you think these shills would be friendly when they are heavily invested, brainwashed and delusional?

like i was stating up thread, you cannot remove human emotions...these battle will be full of emotions i guarantee you

[electronicash]

Why is NAV and SDC out of the picture?
I've read here in the forum where they said that SDC and NAV has better technology than those mentioned in the OP.  If you can check it on bittrex these two coins are also being traded well.

[arielbit]

Why is NAV and SDC out of the picture?
I've read here in the forum where they said that SDC and NAV has better technology than those mentioned in the OP.  If you can check it on bittrex these two coins are also being traded well.

because dash shills like qwizzie would like to think dash is still at about the same level as monero but in reality they now at the same level with SDC and NAV..

that's right qwizzie go FUD SDC and NAV ... who knows they might take a huge chunk off DASH marketcap  

[electronicash]

Why is NAV and SDC out of the picture?
I've read here in the forum where they said that SDC and NAV has better technology than those mentioned in the OP.  If you can check it on bittrex these two coins are also being traded well.

because dash shills like qwizzie would like to think dash is still at about the same level as monero but in reality they now at the same level with SDC and NAV..

that's right qwizzie go FUD SDC and NAV ... who knows they might take a huge chunk off DASH marketcap  

Their ANN thread seem to be telling the opposite. The rest of them don't know the sudden rise but then i guess the rest of the users who hope to earn when it goes up prefer to invest on SDC and NAV as its cheaper. My bet why its going up though is these coins are being used if there are some hacks going on and just maybe a huge site is currently penetrated like btcjam.

[c789]

It's almost as if this thread was made for this page: https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php

Of course, I'm partial to Monero, but that's only because I did a lot of research. My goal was not finding the best opportunity for a pump-and-dump. My goal was to find the most untraceable, most private coin, period. I knew if I found that coin, then eventually the masses would realize it too...and they're starting to. After all, we're dealing with math (specifically cryptography), and math does not care about pump-and-dumps or marketing.

I used to be fan of some of the other coins until I did heavy research. You can dig through my past posts to verify this. The page above is a summary of my research, but do your own research. Don't just go by what others say and who has the coolest looking site, logo, girls dancing, etc.

There are good reasons why entities which depend on privacy and untraceability are using Monero and not the others.

[dinofelis]

Why is NAV and SDC out of the picture?
I've read here in the forum where they said that SDC and NAV has better technology than those mentioned in the OP.  If you can check it on bittrex these two coins are also being traded well.

I didn't know NAV - well, I might have seen it "amongst the krill of altcoins" but I didn't realize it had some serious anonymity tech.  I started looking into it.  There's at least one thing I don't like about it from the start, and that is that anonymity is an option (that is, you can do transactions "in the clear").   In fact, it is the thing I didn't get around for ZCASH either, I don't know if ZCASH, finally, will be "default anonymous", or whether anonymity is an option there.  With zerocoin, it is an option, because you have to decide yourself to "commit" the underlying coin (originally bitcoin), which is why I thought that the same happened to ZCASH.  But after reading the ZCASH paper, it is not clear to me now.

I've repeated this often: anonymity shouldn't be an option.  It should be inherent in the system, and there may be an option to DISCLOSE your transactions.  Like cash is essentially anonymous by construction.   You MAY go through the hassle of writing down all the serial numbers of the bills that go through your hands and publish this, so that people later can recognize that the bill they got, 50 transactions later, were once yours.    But the system shouldn't offer a way to "be automatically in the clear" because one NEEDS A LOT OF INNOCENT ANONYMOUS TRANSACTIONS in order for anonymity as obfuscation technique to work.  If only those needing it, are going to use it, they stand out, which defeats the purpose.

[dinofelis]

It's almost as if this thread was made for this page: https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php

Of course, I'm partial to Monero, but that's only because I did a lot of research. My goal was not finding the best opportunity for a pump-and-dump. My goal was to find the most untraceable, most private coin, period. I knew if I found that coin, then eventually the masses would realize it too...and they're starting to. After all, we're dealing with math (specifically cryptography), and math does not care about pump-and-dumps or marketing.

I used to be fan of some of the other coins until I did heavy research. You can dig through my past posts to verify this. The page above is a summary of my research, but do your own research. Don't just go by what others say and who has the coolest looking site, logo, girls dancing, etc.

There are good reasons why entities which depend on privacy and untraceability are using Monero and not the others.

Same here.   I might come over as a kind of monero shill, but I followed the same way as you did: for the moment, I think it is one of the better anon tech (and a coin that seems to be reasonably fair) ; I like monero because of the tech, and not the other way around.   I used to like DASH, and I still like DASH as a pioneer and one of the first movers in the anon space, but I think that monero is simply better anon tech.

I'm in doubt about zcash.  It just *might* be super great tech.  What is sure, is that there are several things that I don't like about the particularities of this future coin: its "for profit company" stuff, the "first 4 years of taxes", and the way the trusted setup is set up.  But it may just be brilliant technology on which a better anon coin can be built.   You could compare it to the situation with the brilliant technology of cryptonote, but first put to work in a scammy coin.  It is not because the first coin putting the tech to work has problems *as a coin* that the technology is bad.

If ZCASH turns out to be "default anonymous" I think there are ways to make a better "trusted setup" (for instance, with thousands or more initial participants) ; so who knows that from zcash, one can make a clone that is fair and better than monero (or maybe monero can incorporate part of its tech).

In the end, what I'm interested in, is the best anon tech.

It is true that things like NAV are integrating an aspect of anonymity which wasn't considered in monero: the *network* anonymity.  Monero was still solving the problem of *blockchain data anonymity*.

Now, I think that this is the most important aspect, and one could discuss whether the network anonymity is the job of the coin or not.  The problem with a lack of block chain anonymity a la bitcoin, is that your transactions are graved in stone *forever*.   So 30 years after you did so, one can still go and dig it up, and there is no deniability.   The networking anonymity is more furtive.   Ok, if your IP is registered in the clear by a node to which you send it, one can trace you.  But this knowledge becomes less and less usable after many years.  One can wonder whether the networking anon protocol is the job of the coin - after all, this is not part of the "block chain tech" which only describes the block chain data structure, the rules of interpretation and verification and the rules for appending.  But as a software system, it can be nice to integrate also an anon network.  Or one could use an existing one, such as I2P or TOR.

Finally, there's something else.    There's a rule in crypto, which is: "don't use crypto you've invented in your basement for serious stuff".  You can invent crypto in your basement, but then it should be peer or hacker reviewed for years, before you can start to assume that it is somehow safe.  That's a pain, because it means that you cannot do quick innovation in crypto.   Crypto is technology, but also belief.   If the tech doesn't work, then the belief is dangerous.  But even if the tech works, it takes time to develop the belief.   So one should find a middle ground between doing new stuff, and being conservative with crypto technology.  You cannot invent new crypto on Monday, and use it on a large and important scale on Friday.  Crypto has to mature, and win justified belief in its correct functioning, failed attack after failed attack.

[alanshore]

FBI director says agency preparing attack on data encryption after the elections