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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1164761 times)
bobq
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December 14, 2018, 01:51:46 PM
 #21281

The adress is here https://explorer.byteball.org/#AZBEPSAXJ3Q2TIUV32UWFTZ3JUEA3SXG.
Now he have split 60 times, but he have complete more than 1.500 GB.
If he is finisch with all, the probability that he wins is 1 to 3,5 for him Lips sealed
I share some bytes with my friends for more chance to win, but this method is cheating!
Notice the counter of RNA https://byteball.co/attestors

EDIT: Sorry is no cheat, he follows the rules but found a loophole  Grin

Good research!

Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud.

Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed.

These attestations are valid.  But looks like someone has a huge network of "friends" who are ready to sell their identities for a few bucks.  Every distribution method will be abused to some extent.

It was abused "to some extent" until it was just about the few bucks of the attestation, but now that it extends to the lottery worth GBs for thousands of $ the abuse is reaching a too high and not any more acceptable extent IMHO.
Moreover, to accept this form of abusive behavior would surely encourage others to do the same. Now that it has been exposed, everyone knows exactly how to do that. And many would copy this trick. Do you really want this to happen? After a few draws you would end up with just the abusers taking part to the game.

Those addresses are excluded from the draw.  Same about a few more addresses with obvious signs of abuse.

I see two fundamental problems:

1. So people find other ways to exploit the real-name attestation without causing attentation.
2. You will have to act like a dictator (centralization) deciding yourself which address are abusive and which one not.

1. At least it will be harder for them. If your logic would be applied in society we should abolish the police and the judicial system all together since smart thieves may find anyway a way to steal and rob without being caught. Well, if you like that then go to an empty island and create your ideal society where even the most stupid thieves will have the right to steal to others.

2. I have some news for you: Byteball has started as a 100% centralised network where Tony had all the bytes and all the balls and he has been distributing them for a year now in the way which he thinks best to achieve max decentralisation. Not all choices may have been the best ones but they have honestly tried to be the best ones. So all the bytes which still have to be distributed are still centralised in Tony's hands by definition, there is no surprise in that. As for the reference to "dictator", all I can say is that you seem to have a quite confused interpretation of reality.

So we are 1 hour after the first Draw Airdrop and I have found that points have been manipulated.


Bad formulation. Possibly the team has instead tried to FIX the manipolations done by those who have tried to abuse the system. And we can only be greatful for that. Unless, of course, we are the abusers.

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December 14, 2018, 02:26:49 PM
 #21282

The rules for the next draw (@bittybox you were first to notice):

* Real-name attested addresses get 1 point per GB of balance up to 10 GB, plus 0.1 point for each GB between 10 GB and 1000 GB, plus 0.01 point for each GB above 1000 GB.
* Unattested addresses get 0.01 point per GB of balance.
* 0.1 point is awarded for each GB of balance increase since the previous draw.
* 0.2 point is deducted for each GB of balance decrease since the previous draw.

The change introduces 0.01 coefficient for unattested addresses and very large attested addresses.  As a result, the weight of whales is further reduced.

The page http://draw.byteball.org/ now displays whale dominance % at the bottom.

Simplicity is beauty
bobq
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December 14, 2018, 03:18:15 PM
 #21283

The rules for the next draw (@bittybox you were first to notice):

* Real-name attested addresses get 1 point per GB of balance up to 10 GB, plus 0.1 point for each GB between 10 GB and 1000 GB, plus 0.01 point for each GB above 1000 GB.
* Unattested addresses get 0.01 point per GB of balance.
* 0.1 point is awarded for each GB of balance increase since the previous draw.
* 0.2 point is deducted for each GB of balance decrease since the previous draw.

The change introduces 0.01 coefficient for unattested addresses and very large attested addresses.  As a result, the weight of whales is further reduced.

The page http://draw.byteball.org/ now displays whale dominance % at the bottom.


Also the partecipation of privacy-concerned community members will be further reduced. Everyone with just a few Gigabytes or even tens of Gibabytes in their wallet and who has privacy concerns and doesn't want to attest their names will have close to zero motivation to play at this game with the 0.01 parameter applied to them. They'd need 100 GB to match the chances of an attested member with just 1 Gb, not really worth any hassle for thise below 1Gb. Of course it costs close to no effort to take part to such a draw even with close to zero chances to win, but motivation to increase one's stake to get the 0.1 point increase at these conditions will be unexistent for the unattested.
I understand that the perfect solution doesn't exist, but in the end the real question is: will this solution effectively enlarge the user base more than it will upset privacy-concerned members?

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December 14, 2018, 04:03:53 PM
 #21284

The rules for the next draw (@bittybox you were first to notice):

* Real-name attested addresses get 1 point per GB of balance up to 10 GB, plus 0.1 point for each GB between 10 GB and 1000 GB, plus 0.01 point for each GB above 1000 GB.
* Unattested addresses get 0.01 point per GB of balance.
* 0.1 point is awarded for each GB of balance increase since the previous draw.
* 0.2 point is deducted for each GB of balance decrease since the previous draw.

The change introduces 0.01 coefficient for unattested addresses and very large attested addresses.  As a result, the weight of whales is further reduced.

The page http://draw.byteball.org/ now displays whale dominance % at the bottom.


well done
Thul
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December 14, 2018, 04:14:28 PM
 #21285

The rules for the next draw (@bittybox you were first to notice):

* Real-name attested addresses get 1 point per GB of balance up to 10 GB, plus 0.1 point for each GB between 10 GB and 1000 GB, plus 0.01 point for each GB above 1000 GB.
* Unattested addresses get 0.01 point per GB of balance.
* 0.1 point is awarded for each GB of balance increase since the previous draw.
* 0.2 point is deducted for each GB of balance decrease since the previous draw.

The change introduces 0.01 coefficient for unattested addresses and very large attested addresses.  As a result, the weight of whales is further reduced.

The page http://draw.byteball.org/ now displays whale dominance % at the bottom.


Also the partecipation of privacy-concerned community members will be further reduced. Everyone with just a few Gigabytes or even tens of Gibabytes in their wallet and who has privacy concerns and doesn't want to attest their names will have close to zero motivation to play at this game with the 0.01 parameter applied to them. They'd need 100 GB to match the chances of an attested member with just 1 Gb, not really worth any hassle for thise below 1Gb. Of course it costs close to no effort to take part to such a draw even with close to zero chances to win, but motivation to increase one's stake to get the 0.1 point increase at these conditions will be unexistent for the unattested.
I understand that the perfect solution doesn't exist, but in the end the real question is: will this solution effectively enlarge the user base more than it will upset privacy-concerned members?
Agreed!
I don't participate in this nonsense either.

It has been proven that the regime is not concerned at all with increasing the number of users. There are other options, but they have been completely ignored for almost two years.
bittybox
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December 14, 2018, 04:19:02 PM
 #21286

The adress is here https://explorer.byteball.org/#AZBEPSAXJ3Q2TIUV32UWFTZ3JUEA3SXG.
Now he have split 60 times, but he have complete more than 1.500 GB.
If he is finisch with all, the probability that he wins is 1 to 3,5 for him Lips sealed
I share some bytes with my friends for more chance to win, but this method is cheating!
Notice the counter of RNA https://byteball.co/attestors

EDIT: Sorry is no cheat, he follows the rules but found a loophole  Grin

Good research!

Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud.

Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed.

These attestations are valid.  But looks like someone has a huge network of "friends" who are ready to sell their identities for a few bucks.  Every distribution method will be abused to some extent.

It was abused "to some extent" until it was just about the few bucks of the attestation, but now that it extends to the lottery worth GBs for thousands of $ the abuse is reaching a too high and not any more acceptable extent IMHO.
Moreover, to accept this form of abusive behavior would surely encourage others to do the same. Now that it has been exposed, everyone knows exactly how to do that. And many would copy this trick. Do you really want this to happen? After a few draws you would end up with just the abusers taking part to the game.

Those addresses are excluded from the draw.  Same about a few more addresses with obvious signs of abuse.

I see two fundamental problems:

1. So people find other ways to exploit the real-name attestation without causing attentation.
2. You will have to act like a dictator (centralization) deciding yourself which address are abusive and which one not.

1. At least it will be harder for them. If your logic would be applied in society we should abolish the police and the judicial system all together since smart thieves may find anyway a way to steal and rob without being caught. Well, if you like that then go to an empty island and create your ideal society where even the most stupid thieves will have the right to steal to others.

2. I have some news for you: Byteball has started as a 100% centralised network where Tony had all the bytes and all the balls and he has been distributing them for a year now in the way which he thinks best to achieve max decentralisation. Not all choices may have been the best ones but they have honestly tried to be the best ones. So all the bytes which still have to be distributed are still centralised in Tony's hands by definition, there is no surprise in that. As for the reference to "dictator", all I can say is that you seem to have a quite confused interpretation of reality.

So we are 1 hour after the first Draw Airdrop and I have found that points have been manipulated.


Bad formulation. Possibly the team has instead tried to FIX the manipolations done by those who have tried to abuse the system. And we can only be greatful for that. Unless, of course, we are the abusers.

Its really stupid to compare 1. rule of an airdrop with how the entire society works.
The easiest way to prevent the "real-name attestation" abuse is not to bonus them and to find other possibilitys to prevent that high stake owners get all of the airdrops. Yes its a challenge, but there are plenty of possibilitys in a relative small environment to be tested.

So until now byteball have had a fair and transparent distribution. But what now happens just seems like arbitrary measures set by someone.
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December 14, 2018, 04:21:41 PM
 #21287

The rules for the next draw (@bittybox you were first to notice):

* Real-name attested addresses get 1 point per GB of balance up to 10 GB, plus 0.1 point for each GB between 10 GB and 1000 GB, plus 0.01 point for each GB above 1000 GB.
* Unattested addresses get 0.01 point per GB of balance.
* 0.1 point is awarded for each GB of balance increase since the previous draw.
* 0.2 point is deducted for each GB of balance decrease since the previous draw.

The change introduces 0.01 coefficient for unattested addresses and very large attested addresses.  As a result, the weight of whales is further reduced.

The page http://draw.byteball.org/ now displays whale dominance % at the bottom.


Also the partecipation of privacy-concerned community members will be further reduced. Everyone with just a few Gigabytes or even tens of Gibabytes in their wallet and who has privacy concerns and doesn't want to attest their names will have close to zero motivation to play at this game with the 0.01 parameter applied to them. They'd need 100 GB to match the chances of an attested member with just 1 Gb, not really worth any hassle for thise below 1Gb. Of course it costs close to no effort to take part to such a draw even with close to zero chances to win, but motivation to increase one's stake to get the 0.1 point increase at these conditions will be unexistent for the unattested.
I understand that the perfect solution doesn't exist, but in the end the real question is: will this solution effectively enlarge the user base more than it will upset privacy-concerned members?
Agreed!
I don't participate in this nonsense either.

It has been proven that the regime is not concerned at all with increasing the number of users. There are other options, but they have been completely ignored for almost two years.

Not participating is the very least, I am considering selling hugh stakes of my Byteballs. I hope these guy of bobq is not anyhow in any administrative position, his way of thinking will be the death of Byteball.
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December 14, 2018, 04:37:45 PM
 #21288

Agreed!
I don't participate in this nonsense either.

It has been proven that the regime is not concerned at all with increasing the number of users. There are other options, but they have been completely ignored for almost two years.

Not participating is the very least, I am considering selling hugh stakes of my Byteballs. I hope these guy of bobq is not anyhow in any administrative position, his way of thinking will be the death of Byteball.

Not sure what you have to lose with linking un-attested address, nobody forces you to do any attestation. Real name attestation is for people with few GBYTE, staying un-attested is for whales and now they are more equal because previously it was off.
Put your money where your mouth is, there is only 3159 GBYTE for sale orders on Bittrex, yet 43442 GBYTE for buy orders and volume lower than most days.
bittybox
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December 14, 2018, 06:44:53 PM
Last edit: December 14, 2018, 07:13:03 PM by bittybox
 #21289

Agreed!
I don't participate in this nonsense either.

It has been proven that the regime is not concerned at all with increasing the number of users. There are other options, but they have been completely ignored for almost two years.

Not participating is the very least, I am considering selling hugh stakes of my Byteballs. I hope these guy of bobq is not anyhow in any administrative position, his way of thinking will be the death of Byteball.

Not sure what you have to lose with linking un-attested address, nobody forces you to do any attestation. Real name attestation is for people with few GBYTE, staying un-attested is for whales and now they are more equal because previously it was off.
Put your money where your mouth is, there is only 3159 GBYTE for sale orders on Bittrex, yet 43442 GBYTE for buy orders and volume lower than most days.

My address is already linked and the reward is 0.01 for un-attested address now while it is 0.1 for attested address + 1 for the first 10 GBYTE of attested address.
Yes I might attest my address asking someone, attesting for me, if its even possible afterwards.

All these actions looks for me like someone want to take advantage of the rules of this airdrop, including the fact that rules are changed afterwards possibily to someones favor.
And after all I prefer to stay anonymous as it would be theoretically possible not only to refer the attest to my GBYTES, but also to my Bitcoins from the initial airdrops.

I would crash the market with selling GBYTE only worth 5 Bitcoin.
As for now I am absolutly ok to put my money where my mouth is, how about offering me a bid wall on 0.0090, I will sell into it no matter the size of it..
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December 14, 2018, 07:23:16 PM
 #21290

I would crash the market with selling GBYTE only worth 5 Bitcoin.
As for now I am absolutly ok to put my money where my mouth is, how about offering me a bid wall on 0.0090, I will sell into it no matter the size of it..


That's not how "put your money where your mouth is" works, you would actually need to send the bytes to exchange and put the sell order up. Otherwise it's as much worth as me saying that I will put 10 BTC buy order when it drops to 0.008.
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December 14, 2018, 08:32:21 PM
 #21291

I would crash the market with selling GBYTE only worth 5 Bitcoin.
As for now I am absolutly ok to put my money where my mouth is, how about offering me a bid wall on 0.0090, I will sell into it no matter the size of it..


That's not how "put your money where your mouth is" works, you would actually need to send the bytes to exchange and put the sell order up. Otherwise it's as much worth as me saying that I will put 10 BTC buy order when it drops to 0.008.

The actual price is 0.009 and not 0.008. But there you have my sell order up on 0.009. Now show us that you are not a chicken and buy into it.
But as you are a chicken and offtopic anyway, I won´t post anything related to your "put your money where your mouth is".
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December 15, 2018, 09:28:13 AM
 #21292

Regarding draw bot,
 I added bot from store, but his not visible in my contacts, how I can linking my balance to participate in weekly draw?
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December 15, 2018, 01:08:01 PM
 #21293

Regarding draw bot,
 I added bot from store, but his not visible in my contacts, how I can linking my balance to participate in weekly draw?

Some users have reported to have issues adding the bot when connected to some other hub than "byteball.org/bb". Make you are using that Hub and try to add again. Also, users who took part of Bitcoin airdrop might have this bot under Transition bot name because it's reusing the old bot.
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December 15, 2018, 01:13:18 PM
 #21294

I would crash the market with selling GBYTE only worth 5 Bitcoin.
As for now I am absolutly ok to put my money where my mouth is, how about offering me a bid wall on 0.0090, I will sell into it no matter the size of it..


That's not how "put your money where your mouth is" works, you would actually need to send the bytes to exchange and put the sell order up. Otherwise it's as much worth as me saying that I will put 10 BTC buy order when it drops to 0.008.

The actual price is 0.009 and not 0.008. But there you have my sell order up on 0.009. Now show us that you are not a chicken and buy into it.
But as you are a chicken and offtopic anyway, I won´t post anything related to your "put your money where your mouth is".


You are odd one, I was calling you out to put your 5 BTC sell order, which you said would crash the market. I said anybody can threaten to something, but it's worthless if the don't actually do it.

I did not offer them to buy, i gave you an example why just words don't maţter. Where is the market crash from your 5 BTC bag?
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December 15, 2018, 07:40:18 PM
Last edit: December 15, 2018, 08:04:08 PM by bittybox
 #21295

I would crash the market with selling GBYTE only worth 5 Bitcoin.
As for now I am absolutly ok to put my money where my mouth is, how about offering me a bid wall on 0.0090, I will sell into it no matter the size of it..


That's not how "put your money where your mouth is" works, you would actually need to send the bytes to exchange and put the sell order up. Otherwise it's as much worth as me saying that I will put 10 BTC buy order when it drops to 0.008.

The actual price is 0.009 and not 0.008. But there you have my sell order up on 0.009. Now show us that you are not a chicken and buy into it.
But as you are a chicken and offtopic anyway, I won´t post anything related to your "put your money where your mouth is".


You are odd one, I was calling you out to put your 5 BTC sell order, which you said would crash the market. I said anybody can threaten to something, but it's worthless if the don't actually do it.

I did not offer them to buy, i gave you an example why just words don't maţter. Where is the market crash from your 5 BTC bag?
Based on your knowledge I dont know if you have ever been trading in your life. And if you have no idea you should be quite.
At the moment a market sell order of Bytes worth even 4.0747 BTC would have crashed the price from 0.009 right to 0.0076, so this is not a crash for you?
Here the order book just for you:

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December 15, 2018, 08:06:12 PM
 #21296

Based on your knowledge I dont know if you have ever been trading in your life. And if you have no idea you should be quite.
At the moment a market sell order of even 4.0747 BTC would have crashed the price from 0.009 right to 0.0076, so this is not a crash for you?

Yeah, I don't know anybody who would be stupid enough to sell at market price. There is huge difference whether you put a 5 BTC worth of bytes to sell order at 0.009 (higher than market price) vs you sell it at market price. I don't even know any serious trader who would dump at market price.
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December 15, 2018, 09:30:21 PM
 #21297

Regarding draw bot,
 I added bot from store, but his not visible in my contacts, how I can linking my balance to participate in weekly draw?

Some users have reported to have issues adding the bot when connected to some other hub than "byteball.org/bb". Make you are using that Hub and try to add again. Also, users who took part of Bitcoin airdrop might have this bot under Transition bot name because it's reusing the old bot.

No, I connected to "byteball.org/bb"
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December 16, 2018, 05:51:38 AM
 #21298

Regarding draw bot,
 I added bot from store, but his not visible in my contacts, how I can linking my balance to participate in weekly draw?

Some users have reported to have issues adding the bot when connected to some other hub than "byteball.org/bb". Make you are using that Hub and try to add again. Also, users who took part of Bitcoin airdrop might have this bot under Transition bot name because it's reusing the old bot.

No, I connected to "byteball.org/bb"

Make sure you are using latest v2.6 wallet. Did it add any new bot or did it do anything at all? If it added empty conversation with no messages from bot, try to write something to it or remove the bot/device/contact and re-add it.
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December 16, 2018, 02:34:33 PM
 #21299

Price is already at 0.008 on bittrex. This will go further down if this stupid policies won´t stop.

1. Why its not possible to sellout Byteball stakeholder proportionately and not via Lottery ?

2. Why does someone with more then 1000 GB Byteball being penalized with only getting 0.01 Points for the airdrop instead of 0.1 Points like regular ? What it the incentive, should they sell their stakes ?
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December 16, 2018, 03:23:10 PM
 #21300

Price is already at 0.008 on bittrex. This will go further down if this stupid policies won´t stop.

1. Why its not possible to sellout Byteball stakeholder proportionately and not via Lottery ?

2. Why does someone with more then 1000 GB Byteball being penalized with only getting 0.01 Points for the airdrop instead of 0.1 Points like regular ? What it the incentive, should they sell their stakes ?

Did you joined cryptocurrencies last week? Byteball is volatile, for very long period it was around 0.007 (it went even as low as 0.006), this week rallied to 0.010 and now has come down to 0.008 again.

1. Not sure what you mean, there are even bigger distribution than this draw, other distribution are still running and the last draw winner has not dumped their winnings. Only ones that harm Byteball price are the FUDsters and weak hands.

2. There was too much whale dominance for the first week draw, so after first draw, rules were changed to give people with smaller amount of bytes fairer amount of points to compete with whales.
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