Bitcoin Forum
September 18, 2019, 08:43:33 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 [1080] 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1178319 times)
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 15


View Profile WWW
March 07, 2019, 03:11:41 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2019, 03:26:04 PM by tarmo888
 #21581

It will help to replace witnesses and decentralize the coin.

Market does not 'decide'. Market does not do any decision.
What fee in $ would you accept? And how do you know it is not lower than market 'decide'

Market decides the GBYTE price and since transaction cost is roughly between 500-600 bytes, the cost in any other currency can be calculated. If people don't want to buy GBYTE when it is too high then somebody else will sell it for lower and vice-versa. How else do you think markets work?
1568796213
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1568796213

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1568796213
Reply with quote  #2

1568796213
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1568796213
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1568796213

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1568796213
Reply with quote  #2

1568796213
Report to moderator
1568796213
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1568796213

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1568796213
Reply with quote  #2

1568796213
Report to moderator
1568796213
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1568796213

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1568796213
Reply with quote  #2

1568796213
Report to moderator
friet
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 03:29:39 PM
 #21582

What fee could you accept in $?
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 15


View Profile WWW
March 07, 2019, 03:48:49 PM
 #21583

What fee could you accept in $?

Pretty much any fee that is predictable. For example, if I would be an oracle and need to post something once every 6 minutes to Obyte DAG and every unit would be 1000 bytes big then I could estimate that I need less than 0.1 GBYTE per year and I would not need to worry how many CryptoKitties games or ICOs are launched during that year, my cost would still be 87600000 bytes per year.
friet
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 04:04:43 PM
 #21584

Men,
Oh yes...
So let every user of byteball estimate what they want to buy in the next 10 years and let them buy gbytes for the coming 10 years. If this is how it is supposed to be used then I don't think so it is usable. 

You don't consider you just got your salary and want to buy a pen? What fee will you accept?
diyhockey
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 79
Merit: 2


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 04:05:45 PM
 #21585

Why not to do such a change now?

Why not to have % fee and give it to witnesses?
This could help obyte to grow.

because fees are low now
re % fee, I do not understand why people should pay different fees for the same services, depending on their ability to pay, religion, color, etc.
friet
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 04:17:50 PM
 #21586

Fee in % cannot be low?
Not getting you about different fees?

But you understand that sometimes something cost 10 gbytes and sometimes 1gbyte? Or that you dont understand also?
diyhockey
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 79
Merit: 2


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 04:20:29 PM
 #21587

Fee in % cannot be low?
Not getting you about different fees?

But you understand that sometimes something cost 10 gbytes and sometimes 1gbyte? Or that you dont understand also?
I thought you about % of amount? Ex 1% of 10 GB tx is 0.1 GB, of 100 GB is 1 Gb. People pay different % for the same service
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 15


View Profile WWW
March 07, 2019, 04:26:44 PM
 #21588

Men,
Oh yes...
So let every user of byteball estimate what they want to buy in the next 10 years and let them buy gbytes for the coming 10 years. If this is how it is supposed to be used then I don't think so it is usable. 

You don't consider you just got your salary and want to buy a pen? What fee will you accept?

Like I said, if there isn't people who are willing to buy it for that price, somebody will selling it cheaper. Price increases the more valuable Obyte becomes for them and decreases when it becomes less valuable for them. If the fee to make a transaction to buy a pen is too high then clearly Obyte becomes less valuable to use.

But we are talking about fees that require GBYTE prices to be 1000x or 10000x higher, which would mean that Obyte marketcap would need to reach Bitcoin marketcap now. This is not going to happen overnight and you would not going to make purchases of pens on base layer, just like you don't want to make purchases of coffee on Bitcoin base layer. Obyte can have layer-2 solutions too, but it doesn't need them yet because we are not that far yet.
friet
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 04:39:47 PM
 #21589

If the fee to make a transaction to buy a pen is too high then clearly Obyte becomes less valuable to use.
Less valuable but enough less valuable to buy pen?

So whats the reason it is not a problem? Is that reason 'market decide' or is that reason 'second layer solution' or is that reason 'it is not gonna happen than gbyte will be worth so much' ?

If 'market decide' is a reason why fixed fee is not a problem why you are talking about solutions? We don't need any solution if what you are saying is correct. What solution you want for?
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 15


View Profile WWW
March 07, 2019, 04:55:24 PM
 #21590

If the fee to make a transaction to buy a pen is too high then clearly Obyte becomes less valuable to use.
Less valuable but enough less valuable to buy pen?

So whats the reason it is not a problem? Is that reason 'market decide' or is that reason 'second layer solution' or is that reason 'it is not gonna happen than gbyte will be worth so much' ?

If 'market decide' is a reason why fixed fee is not a problem why you are talking about solutions? We don't need any solution if what you are saying is correct. What solution you want for?

Because there are more important things to work on now?

How do you know that the price of 1 BTC will be high enough in 100 years that miners could mine just for transaction fees and no rewards? You don't know, you can't know, but it's a far enough that you can predict after 20-30 years if it's ever going to happen or not. Same way here, the idea is that it would work out like that, but since we are not there yet, we can't really tell, so we need to wait and see.

Fee is not that fixed, it depends how much you post to DAG. Obyte is not just for payments, much more can be done on it.
diyhockey
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 79
Merit: 2


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 05:09:33 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2019, 05:23:33 PM by diyhockey
 #21591

Quote
How do you know that the price of 1 BTC will be high enough in 100 years that miners could mine just for transaction fees and no rewards?
People do not count and will not count their fees in BTC or satoshi. People count fees as a percentage of their income. For example 10% ($1) was too expensive in 1900 with $10 salary. In 2019 10% ($500) is too expensive with $3k salary. And 10% will be too expensive in 2121 with $1m average salary. Amount of candy wrappers doesn't matter. Value is matter. And it's +- the same in 1900, 2019 and 2121 despite the different amounts. So in case if block size remain the same as today, miners will receive the same value as today. Doesn't matter will BTC cost $100000m of dollars or $3800. One million in fees in 2121 will have value of $3k in 2019
This is actually a common misconception in crypto space among newbies that price of BTC affects on the amount of value received by miners from the fees pool
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 15


View Profile WWW
March 07, 2019, 05:24:35 PM
 #21592

Quote
How do you know that the price of 1 BTC will be high enough in 100 years that miners could mine just for transaction fees and no rewards?
People do not count and will not count their fees in BTC or satoshi. People count fees as a percentage of their income. For example 10% ($1) was too expensive in 1900 with $10 salary. In 2019 10% ($500) is too expensive with $3k salary. And 10% will be too expensive in 2121 with $1m average salary. Amount of candy wrappers doesn't matter. Value is matter. And it's +- the same in 1900, 2019 and 2121 despite the different amounts. So in case if block size remain the same as today, miners will receive the same value as today. Doesn't matter will BTC cost $100000m of dollars or $3800. One million in fees in 2121 will have value of $3k in 2019
This is actually a common misconception in crypto space among newbies.

Exactly, totally agree. When BTC/USD hits $1 million price, it might not be because people value it that high compared to now, it could be that average salary is also $1 million by then because USD has gone through hyperinflation.

But block size probably is not going to be still 1mb in 100 years. Same way, SHA256 will not be a used for 100 years.
diyhockey
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 79
Merit: 2


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 05:34:35 PM
 #21593

Quote
But block size probably is not going to be still 1mb in 100 years.
It will die with 1mb block. Maybe even after the next bull if we will see it. My point is that many people in crypto make face claims - " BTC price moon = more fees to miners". This is totaly wrong. People ready to pay reasonable share of their income. And this share does not depend on the price of BTC. Even if you BTC billionaire you likely smart enough to move out from the shit that asks to pay 10% of average salary of other people as a fees. I mean even if it's nothing to you, you will see perspectives and exit.
friet
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 05:41:00 PM
 #21594

You cannot wait and see what happens because it is gamble. Investors do not like gamble.

Let say you wait until fee is enormous and then apply solution x.

Investors know that there will be solution x. But they don't know if they will like that solution. How they can invest if they don't know?
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 15


View Profile WWW
March 07, 2019, 06:02:01 PM
 #21595

Quote
But block size probably is not going to be still 1mb in 100 years.
It will die with 1mb block. Maybe even after the next bull if we will see it. My point is that many people in crypto make face claims - " BTC price moon = more fees to miners". This is totaly wrong. People ready to pay reasonable share of their income. And this share does not depend on the price of BTC. Even if you BTC billionaire you likely smart enough to move out from the shit that asks to pay 10% of average salary of other people as a fees. I mean even if it's nothing to you, you will see perspectives and exit.

I think market will self regulate it, fees go too high and merchants will drop it. That's what happened with Bitcoin in 2017.
bustedsynx
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 712
Merit: 251



View Profile
March 07, 2019, 06:41:12 PM
 #21596

Anyway, the true hodlers think in bytes. In other words, how much bytes can I accumulate before they get expensive. They don't see the Bitcoin or fiat equivalent value of a byte.


▄▄▄███████▄▄▄
▄▄█████▀▀''`▀▀█████▄▄
▄███P'            `YY██▄
▄██P'                  `Y██▄
███'                      `███
███'                         ███
▄██'   ▄█████▄▄  ,▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄p   ███
▄██▀  ,████▀P▀███.`██████████P   ▀██▄
███[ ,████ __. ███.   ,▄████▀    ███
███[ ]████████████[  ▄████▀       ███
███[ `████   ,oo2 ▄████▀'       ,███
▀██▄  `████▄▄█████d███████████   ▄██▀
▀██.   `▀▀▀▀▀▀"  Y▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ,██▀
███.                        ,███
▀██▄                      ▄██▀
▀███▄_                 ,███▀
▀███▄▄_          _▄▄███▀
▀▀████▄▄ooo▄▄█████▀
▀▀███████▀▀'

365

TM

EZ365 is a digital ecosystem that combines
the best aspects of online gaming, cryptocurrency
trading
and blockchain education. ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

..WHITEPAPER..    ..INVESTOR PITCH..

.Telegram     Twitter   Facebook

                       .'M████▀▀██  ██
                      W█Ws'V██  ██▄▄███▀▀█
                     i█████m.~M████▀▀██  ███
                     d███████Ws'V██  ██████
                     ****M██████m.~███f~~__mW█
          ██▀▀▀████████=  Y██▀▀██W ,gm███████
      g█████▄▄▄██   █A~`_WW Y█  ██!,████████
   g▀▀▀███   ████▀▀`_m████i!████P W███  ██
 _███▄▄▄██▀▀▀███Af`_m███   █W ███A ]███  ██
__ ~~~▀▀▀▀▄▄▄█*f_m██████   ██i!██!i███████
Y█████▄▄▄▄__. i██▀▀▀██████████ █!,██████
 8█  █▀▀█████.!██   ██████████i! █████
 '█  █  █   █W M█▄▄▄██████   ██ !██
  !███▄▄█   ██i'██████████   ██
   Y███████████.]██████████████
   █   ███████b ███   ██████
   Y   █   █▀▀█i!██   ████
    V███   █  █W Y█████
      ~~▀███▄▄▄█['███
            ~~*██

Play

            │
    │      ███
    │      ███
    │      ███
    │   │  ███
   ███  │  ███
   ███ ███ ███
 │  ███ ███ ███
███ ███ ███ ███
███ ███  │   │
███ ███  │   │
 │   │
 │

Trade

           __▄▄████▄▄
     __▄▄███████████████▄▄▄
 _▄▄█████████▀▀~`,▄████████████▄▄▄
 ~▀▀████▀▀~`,_▄▄███████████████▀▀▀
   d█~  =▀███████████████▀▀
   ]█! m▄▄ '~▀▀▀████▀▀~~ ,_▄▄
  ,W█. *████▄▄__ '  __▄▄█████
  !██P  █████████████████████
   W█. - ██████████████████▀
  i██[   ~ ▀▀█████████▀▀▀
 g███!
Y███

Learn
friet
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
 #21597

Yeah, and not true holders like those who think about equivalent in fiat money do not contribute to price of obyte. We dont want them. Keep pushing that bullshit.

Only money from true holders make difference. So before you buy please become true holder. Otherwise it is useless.
diyhockey
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 79
Merit: 2


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 07:33:29 PM
 #21598

Yeah, and not true holders like those who think about equivalent in fiat money do not contribute to price of obyte. We dont want them. Keep pushing that bullshit.

Only money from true holders make difference. So before you buy please become true holder. Otherwise it is useless.
I think nobody believe that GB can do x1000 or even that people will use this network. There is no usebase, no network effects, crypto founds ignore us. Fees is so hypothetical problem. There is bigger problems called scaling and witnesses distribution. As tarmo888 said it's only 30 tps. And as you can see it's only 1 of 12 distributed witness.
friet
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
March 07, 2019, 08:06:58 PM
 #21599

I gave you solution to distribute the witnesses.

percentage fee
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 15


View Profile WWW
March 07, 2019, 08:45:55 PM
 #21600

Fees is so hypothetical problem. There is bigger problems called scaling and witnesses distribution. As tarmo888 said it's only 30 tps. And as you can see it's only 1 of 12 distributed witness.

I agree about the lack of witnesses decentralization, I think that is the main problem for some users to take it seriously, but at the same time it has had some benefits too, mainly that Obyte has been able to iterate so fast because of this, this probably gets more difficult as Obyte becomes more decentralized.
I don't agree with scaling problem. If less than 1TPS is used and it can do 30FPS, where is the scaling issue? It can do 4-5 times as Bitcoin and 2 times more than Ethereum. For short peak times, it can do 10 times TPS too.


I gave you solution to distribute the witnesses.

percentage fee

If the witness joins because of fees, on the platform where most transactions are currently made by witnesses then it is not the witness Obyte is looking for. The whole point how witnesses work is that they need to post transactions themselves too and spend fees doing so. Your idea is basically to substitute witness fees, but not others. Where would those funds come from? From distribution fund that could be distributed to actual users instead?
Pages: « 1 ... 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 [1080] 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!