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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1175518 times)
codemanX
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November 22, 2017, 08:29:19 AM
 #15261

Have I got it right that the next airdrop will occur in March 2018?? And will there be more than one airdrop in 2018 or only this one?
what? i saw that there is no update on the airdrop moment for this month but march? i really think this will happen sooner

It's true, March 2018 is planned (round can be postponed or even canceled depending on performance of other distribution methods). Just read last page, tonych made that announcement:


An update about future distribution plans.

So far, bytes were mainly distributed via airdrops to holders of BTC and Bytes, and a relatively small portion was distributed through the cashback program.  We started this free distribution with the purpose of getting the currency as wide spread as possible, and while the purpose stays the same, methods can change.  The airdrop method worked well to get the initial user base, but it also proved to be the least efficient in terms of user acquisition cost.

Over the next few months, we'll add more methods of free distribution.  One of them is already being developed, I expect it to be ready in the first half of December. 

The new methods are designed to grow our user base faster than the money supply.

While the new methods are still untested, it is early to drop the airdrops.  That's why the next round of distribution to Bytes and BTC holders is tentatively planned for the full moon of March 2, 2018.  The rules are the same as in the previous round:

For every 16 BTC you receive 0.1 GB,
For every 1 GB you receive additional 0.1 GB,

and similar rules for blackbytes.

This round can be postponed or even canceled depending on performance of other distribution methods.
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bobq
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November 22, 2017, 10:31:41 AM
 #15262

After updating the windows full wallet now the new one doesn't work any more. I'm getting the error message: "Uncaught exception: Type Error: Cannot read properly 'IndexOf' of undefined."
So now what?

Haven't seen that, but....
move the wallet to another folder.  start up the client and then do a full restore.

You DID make a full restore before upgrading to the new watter, rite?


I renamed the directory with the wallet and everything and then I have reinstalled the client, did a full restore and let it the whole night to synchronize but in the morning I have found it stuck with the same error. Now I start to get worried. I had mostly blackbytes in that wallet, but nevertheless...

afbitcoins
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November 22, 2017, 10:59:50 AM
 #15263

I am a byteball investor and while I think the tech is very interesting I also have a few doubts.

Firstly in the distribution I see a danger that faith in this project could start to evaporate. By tinkering endlessly with the distribution this causes uncertainty for investors. Investors don't like uncertainty. Compared to say bitcoin in which new coins enter circulation at a predetermined rate. Here it just depends on the whim and fancy of the dev when he decides to do an air-drop. No offence Tony. But the initial promise was to distribute every full moon until 98% are in circulation. This has obviously not been kept which makes one wonder what else can be trusted.

My other reservation is my more serious concern which is in terms of the witnesses. As I understand it witnesses of which there are only 12 in all, are owned by Tony and will collect majority of the fees for the whole network. Obviously Tony will not be trusted to run all the witnesses for ever. How does one become a witness? As a thought experiment imagine if byteball becomes a huge success displacing bitcoin and becoming a real global payments system.  Who will be the witnesses gathering all that phenomenal amount of fees? Will there still be only 12? Will users be happy that all their fees are centralised to so few witnesses?

Perhaps someone can put to rest some of my doubts. Thanks
the-doctor
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November 22, 2017, 11:47:35 AM
 #15264

An update about future distribution plans.

So far, bytes were mainly distributed via airdrops to holders of BTC and Bytes, and a relatively small portion was distributed through the cashback program.  We started this free distribution with the purpose of getting the currency as wide spread as possible, and while the purpose stays the same, methods can change.  The airdrop method worked well to get the initial user base, but it also proved to be the least efficient in terms of user acquisition cost.

Over the next few months, we'll add more methods of free distribution.  One of them is already being developed, I expect it to be ready in the first half of December. 

The new methods are designed to grow our user base faster than the money supply.

While the new methods are still untested, it is early to drop the airdrops.  That's why the next round of distribution to Bytes and BTC holders is tentatively planned for the full moon of March 2, 2018.  The rules are the same as in the previous round:

For every 16 BTC you receive 0.1 GB,
For every 1 GB you receive additional 0.1 GB,

and similar rules for blackbytes.

This round can be postponed or even canceled depending on performance of other distribution methods.


Nice thing for this project wider distribution is always better. This model change reminds me on someone else's project airdrop model...;-)
anyways good step forward

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idhasitha2009
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November 22, 2017, 11:55:04 AM
 #15265


For every 16 BTC you receive 0.1 GB,
For every 1 GB you receive additional 0.1 GB,

seems its expensive i miss the balls   Sad
kobri0815
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November 22, 2017, 12:20:43 PM
 #15266

I'm very curious what your future plans will bring to byteball. I'm following this project since every and hope that bytball will rise like the old days
Marc De Mesel
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November 22, 2017, 01:25:36 PM
Last edit: November 22, 2017, 01:57:52 PM by Marc De Mesel
 #15267

I am a byteball investor and while I think the tech is very interesting I also have a few doubts.

Firstly in the distribution I see a danger that faith in this project could start to evaporate. By tinkering endlessly with the distribution this causes uncertainty for investors. Investors don't like uncertainty. Compared to say bitcoin in which new coins enter circulation at a predetermined rate. Here it just depends on the whim and fancy of the dev when he decides to do an air-drop. No offence Tony. But the initial promise was to distribute every full moon until 98% are in circulation. This has obviously not been kept which makes one wonder what else can be trusted.

To my knowledge no promises were ever made.

I like very much that airdrops are slowing down, the amount of bytes and blackbytes to distribute from the created supply is LIMITED, only 400.000 GB and equivalent GBB to go.

When all is distributed, who will pay the bills?


A coin needs continuous development and marketing.

Paying these things from donations is not a business model.

You need a piece of the created coins to pay for this so that all coinholders pay their part of the bill.


So either you continue to inflate the supply and let a piece of it go to pay for the bills, as Dash does, or you continue to slow down the spending of the limited supply.

The latter is our only realistic option.


This means also that much wiser spending needs to develop over time, as the percentage of coins spend on the project, compared to it's value, goes down, already a big problem.

So they must be spend ever more effectively so that continued growth in users is there.

The airdrop program is bringing in less and less new users for the coins spend, Tony made the right decision to continue to phase it out.




My other reservation is my more serious concern which is in terms of the witnesses. As I understand it witnesses of which there are only 12 in all, are owned by Tony and will collect majority of the fees for the whole network. Obviously Tony will not be trusted to run all the witnesses for ever. How does one become a witness? As a thought experiment imagine if byteball becomes a huge success displacing bitcoin and becoming a real global payments system.  Who will be the witnesses gathering all that phenomenal amount of fees? Will there still be only 12? Will users be happy that all their fees are centralised to so few witnesses?

Perhaps someone can put to rest some of my doubts. Thanks


What people often forget to mention is that POW coins always lead to only a few miners able to collude together to have 51% of the mining power. Simply because processing work is done more effectively on larger scale. In Bitcoin for example I bet 3 people rule over more than 51% of hashing power and could double spend if they collude.

In Byteball over time these witnesses will be 12 different people and so 7 need to collude together to have 51% of confirmation power and double spend, that is double to tripple as much bad actors needed and so double or tripple as decentralised.

Right now if Tony dies the project is over and out, so witnesses can still be centralised in Tony, as the project is still fully dependent on him anyway. Over time though it is indeed important that more people take on leadership roles so that the project can go on without him if necessary, and indeed witnesses become more decentralised as well.


Check out recent interview with CryptKeeper for interesting details on what power of witnesses exactly is:
https://techburst.io/byteball-interview-part-1-crypto-of-the-3rd-generation-witnesses-iota-vs-byteball-900b629bff



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ByteFan
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November 22, 2017, 02:53:14 PM
 #15268


Right now if Tony dies the project is over and out, so witnesses can still be centralised in Tony, as the project is still fully dependent on him anyway. Over time though it is indeed important that more people take on leadership roles so that the project can go on without him if necessary, and indeed witnesses become more decentralised as well.


True.

The cashback witness MEJ... http://www.cashback-witness.com has already been adopted by many people (see: https://byteball.fr/stats.php) but will never be a full replacment of Tony original JED....

True decentralization will come only when independant witnesses will be added in the default list by Tony. There is not sufficient attention/motivation from  end users to the witnesses to make them change their default wallet parameters (actualy they just don't care...). Or in other words: thoses who are concerned will never be the majority.


Byteball payment gateway for web merchants https://byteball-for-merchants.com/ - BEEB  (Blackbytes Exchange Bot): https://www.beeb-bot.com/ (closed)
Network map, stats, Top Richests and Byteball world map at https://byteball.fr/ (closed) - Hub operator featuring the cashback witness https://byteball-cashback-witness.com (closed)
IckyYak22871
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November 22, 2017, 03:28:49 PM
 #15269

An update about future distribution plans.


....

I read this as "giveaways are over", no free balls any more. Fair enough. Giveaways are good for start, but all giveaways of crypto tokens before were all flawed, including byteball giveaway, because they are all gameable, although they are all fun. So, it is probably a good time to stop it and move on on better ways to attract new users. I hope byteball team will come up with something smart.
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November 22, 2017, 03:31:06 PM
 #15270

I think a shift in the strategy is always in order. I also think there should be better ways to attract more users and grow the community of supporters, airdrops are not a smart way to do it in the longer term.
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November 22, 2017, 03:43:07 PM
 #15271

why iota marketcap so high?

and same technology byteball marketcap is so low???
I think this is because IOTA got large amount of money from big investors, anyway I guess that these large investors wil see the huge potential of Byteball as well....sooner or later Smiley

IOTA has tx without fees, thats really important for nanopayments and IOT. It's working with global player big companies. Overall the expectations are different.
Byteball is a interesting technolgy too, It has anonymous tx with blackbytes, a powerful wallet and a different approach.
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November 22, 2017, 03:53:22 PM
 #15272

I'm not complaining, but honestly that doesn't provide much clarity. New secret method coming maybe soon, and next airdrop in March except maybe if one guy changes his mind.
Looks like a complaint to me Wink

I'm really not. I have never bought any but still holding all coins and accumulated interest from first airdrop. Traded a few blackbytes for regular ones just to try out chat bot.

Does coinpayments.net support byteball? It's website is being blocked in the state I'm currently visiting. Would it be possible to have them participate in cash back thing?
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November 22, 2017, 05:24:48 PM
 #15273

I'm not complaining, but honestly that doesn't provide much clarity. New secret method coming maybe soon, and next airdrop in March except maybe if one guy changes his mind.
Looks like a complaint to me Wink

I'm really not. I have never bought any but still holding all coins and accumulated interest from first airdrop. Traded a few blackbytes for regular ones just to try out chat bot.

Does coinpayments.net support byteball? It's website is being blocked in the state I'm currently visiting. Would it be possible to have them participate in cash back thing?

I keep on accumulating the coins from the airdrop.
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November 22, 2017, 06:35:38 PM
 #15274

Here's basically what you need to do about Byteball:

  • get some Byteball
  • wait for many months before the world realizes what Byteball really is and can do
  • ?? ??
  • profit!!!
D3legacy
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November 22, 2017, 08:12:13 PM
 #15275

Here's basically what you need to do about Byteball:

  • get some Byteball
  • wait for many months before the world realizes what Byteball really is and can do
  • ?? ??
  • profit!!!
Well wouldnt it at least make sense to add join airdrop to your list? Cheesy else you gonna miss some of your profitd

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November 22, 2017, 08:15:40 PM
 #15276

Thinking of going to hub.berlin to meet Tony  Cool

Anyone else going?


Would anyone be interested to do a byteball meeting there too before or after the event? (as tickets are not affordable for everyone €1200)

We could go grab a bite and have some drinks.

Tony do you have time to maybe meet Monday evening 27th or Wednesday 29th morning or afternoon?

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November 22, 2017, 09:02:03 PM
 #15277


A coin needs continuous development and marketing.
Paying these things from donations is not a business model.
You need a piece of the created coins to pay for this so that all coinholders pay their part of the bill.


Fully agree. There needs to be a dedicated reserve for marketing, UX & development in order to attract a larger community and to secure the future of Byteball.



Right now if Tony dies the project is over and out, so witnesses can still be centralised in Tony, as the project is still fully dependent on him anyway. Over time though it is indeed important that more people take on leadership roles so that the project can go on without him if necessary, and indeed witnesses become more decentralised as well.


Are there any known plans for the foreseable future to decentralise the witnesses?
In my opinion, this is quite a big risk that should be addressed in a timely manner.

Even though I like the innovative technology & distribution of Byteball, I really hope Tony will expand the team and decentralise the tech & community more.
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November 22, 2017, 09:24:41 PM
Last edit: November 22, 2017, 11:16:50 PM by afbitcoins
 #15278


I am a byteball investor and while I think the tech is very interesting I also have a few doubts.

Firstly in the distribution I see a danger that faith in this project could start to evaporate. By tinkering endlessly with the distribution this causes uncertainty for investors. Investors don't like uncertainty. Compared to say bitcoin in which new coins enter circulation at a predetermined rate. Here it just depends on the whim and fancy of the dev when he decides to do an air-drop. No offence Tony. But the initial promise was to distribute every full moon until 98% are in circulation. This has obviously not been kept which makes one wonder what else can be trusted.

To my knowledge no promises were ever made.

I like very much that airdrops are slowing down, the amount of bytes and blackbytes to distribute from the created supply is LIMITED, only 400.000 GB and equivalent GBB to go.

When all is distributed, who will pay the bills?


A coin needs continuous development and marketing.

Paying these things from donations is not a business model.

You need a piece of the created coins to pay for this so that all coinholders pay their part of the bill.


So either you continue to inflate the supply and let a piece of it go to pay for the bills, as Dash does, or you continue to slow down the spending of the limited supply.

The latter is our only realistic option.


This means also that much wiser spending needs to develop over time, as the percentage of coins spend on the project, compared to it's value, goes down, already a big problem.

So they must be spend ever more effectively so that continued growth in users is there.

The airdrop program is bringing in less and less new users for the coins spend, Tony made the right decision to continue to phase it out.



First off thanks for replying to my questions. I hope you don't think I'm having a dig at byteball, there are lots of things I really like about it, which is why I have invested in it. The fact that I have a few doubts that I wish to talk about, shouldn't detract from the numerous good points about byteball.  

Perhaps a monthly airdrop wasn't promised, however I did get that impression from the website. Anyway I think my point still stands, just as the number of bytes is limited, so it is with bitcoin too, limited to 21 million bitcoin. Whereas in bitcoin coins are minted (which you could think of as air-dropped in small quantities to miners over a long timescale), it is predetermined by the software. However in byteball the coins were all pre-mined and you now depend on the whim of Tony how they enter circulation. The original plan has changed and might change again. What is to stop Tony deciding he wants to keep 20% instead of 2%? There might be good reasons for that, to fund development or some other reason. The point is about the uncertainty of it, not what is the right or wrong strategy. I don't think anyone would disagree attracting new users is a good aim.  If slowing down the supply and using the 'treasury' of remaining bytes held by the developer to fund development is the aim, maybe the plan should be laid out and stuck to?

The issue of how development will be funded is a big problem for many projects and byteball too. I am a big fan of Dash and like the approach it has taken of a treasury and proposals with voting to decide how it is spent. With Dash it is clearly and unambiguously handled by the software. But anyway I realise this is a very different project than Dash. Byteball has this uncertainty holding it back though, I think.  



My other reservation is my more serious concern which is in terms of the witnesses. As I understand it witnesses of which there are only 12 in all, are owned by Tony and will collect majority of the fees for the whole network. Obviously Tony will not be trusted to run all the witnesses for ever. How does one become a witness? As a thought experiment imagine if byteball becomes a huge success displacing bitcoin and becoming a real global payments system.  Who will be the witnesses gathering all that phenomenal amount of fees? Will there still be only 12? Will users be happy that all their fees are centralised to so few witnesses?

Perhaps someone can put to rest some of my doubts. Thanks



What people often forget to mention is that POW coins always lead to only a few miners able to collude together to have 51% of the mining power. Simply because processing work is done more effectively on larger scale. In Bitcoin for example I bet 3 people rule over more than 51% of hashing power and could double spend if they collude.

In Byteball over time these witnesses will be 12 different people and so 7 need to collude together to have 51% of confirmation power and double spend, that is double to tripple as much bad actors needed and so double or tripple as decentralised.

Right now if Tony dies the project is over and out, so witnesses can still be centralised in Tony, as the project is still fully dependent on him anyway. Over time though it is indeed important that more people take on leadership roles so that the project can go on without him if necessary, and indeed witnesses become more decentralised as well.

Check out recent interview with CryptKeeper for interesting details on what power of witnesses exactly is:
https://techburst.io/byteball-interview-part-1-crypto-of-the-3rd-generation-witnesses-iota-vs-byteball-900b629bff



I think a large part of my fears on this are due to me not understanding witnesses in enough detail. The problems of POW you mention are real, it is true but I would class as separate to my concerns about witnesses.

I looked at the link you sent and it is very interesting but doesn't mention fees as pertaining to witnesses, only that they serialise the transactions. I still worry that witnesses might potentially one day be rewarded too much. More research needed by me.

But also the number of witnesses, 12, is a very small number. For 7 to collude is not far fetched at all. I take your point about POW centralisation of mining. But that is deflecting attention to the problem in this network by pointing at another network.

Perhaps by some more debate on these points I can understand better. I would like to know more about the witnesses if there is some good info I can digest, I'd appreciate. Thanks again.
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November 22, 2017, 09:49:30 PM
 #15279

Here's basically what you need to do about Byteball:

  • get some Byteball
  • wait for many months before the world realizes what Byteball really is and can do
  • ?? ??
  • profit!!!

Nice man. Cmon step 4!
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November 22, 2017, 11:42:20 PM
 #15280


And now the fools that come in claiming it's bad that whales get all the money without even considering what they're saying.
Someone with 16BTC (yes $130k) is not likely to care about $23 worth of byteball.  If you really think that is their motivation, you're really lacking.
A Whale would simply purchase a GB at $250 and get the 10% bonus instead of hoping his $130k would get him $23.


Your logic here seems reasonable. Still: the top 10 Byteball linked BTC addresses represent ±200.000 BTC combined: http://transition.byteball.org
This translates to 1250 GB airdropped Byteball. That's still quite a lot for the market to swallow if it would be sold in a short period of time.

The merchant cashback program is great though and I'm very curious about the new additional distribution method coming in December.

If I was so deep in the crypto world to have $1.64billion, then getting $312k from my ability to store that much should be entitled.
Meaning, if I had 1.64billion in coin means I'm obviously the type of person that believes in crypto and I should be trusted to handle cryptos far more than the average joe blow.

I find the people mostly complaining about not getting more 'free' coins are those that simply want to dump it.  They don't help the system, they simply make it worse.
(NOT saying that you're that type of person.)  I admit, I am not that great for byteball either in that I haven't bought any; however, I also haven't sold any (although I've given several away and I've helped many people with their wallets).

I am interested in the merchant program as well.  I hope it expands.


having a similar error (error removing unstable units ) in my wallet i have only blackbytes in that wallet i can use the full backup with no risk of losing the coins ?

No, using a full backup that is before coin movement is an issue.
Meaning.... If you have 10GBB, make a backup, then spend 2GBB, then restore your backup to show you have 10GBB will not resolve a problem.  It simply makes it worse and more difficult to try to recover what might be possible.

Also, you can move or attempt to move any GBB without having any regular GB in order to pay for the fees.

So many people just coming here because they want free money, its really time to move away from the airdrops

Agreed.

I renamed the directory with the wallet and everything and then I have reinstalled the client, did a full restore and let it the whole night to synchronize but in the morning I have found it stuck with the same error. Now I start to get worried. I had mostly blackbytes in that wallet, but nevertheless...

Send me the wallet.



For every 16 BTC you receive 0.1 GB,
For every 1 GB you receive additional 0.1 GB,

seems its expensive i miss the balls   Sad

Nope, it didn't cost you a thing.  Smiley
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