Hyena
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Activity: 2114
Merit: 1011
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March 05, 2019, 09:33:01 AM |
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I'm a Byteball dev and a service provider for the byteball platform and I'm still going to call it byteball because I never agreed with Obyte as it's an inconvenient name to pronounce and it looks weird. If you were going to change the name then at least do it right, or are you planning on doing this every year now so you don't need to put much effort into it? Makes me wonder. Anyway, the management has taken a step to the worse in multiple fronts so I'm not even mad. Dropping slack for an inferior service, changing the name into a worse one, having all these moon lambo bois like tarmo888 making dumb comments like "scaling can only come AFTER adoption". I'm glad the price is pumping with those pump and dump news though, because I am increasingly seeking for an exit from this project. It had all the potential in the world but is now screwed due to the uneducated but vocal moon lambo bois who joined the project with the last rally (2017/2018).
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"If you don't want people to know you're a scumbag then don't be a scumbag." -- margaritahuyan
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Dr.Lecter
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March 05, 2019, 11:42:16 AM |
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finally we are seeing byteball is back...
To be honest with you, I thought that you are one of the most loyal and strong supporters of the project. By the way, I would like to let you know that the project rebranded to Obyte, instead of its past name, Byteball. Next times, you should call it as Obyte to avoid misleading new comers i already changed it to Obyte  this time byteball will go to 100$  it is possible if Obyte can list on Binance exchange.  |
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fuk
Newbie
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Activity: 64
Merit: 0
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March 05, 2019, 02:45:18 PM
Last edit: March 05, 2019, 03:29:52 PM by fuk |
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I'm a Byteball dev and a service provider for the byteball platform and I'm still going to call it byteball because I never agreed with Obyte as it's an inconvenient name to pronounce and it looks weird. If you were going to change the name then at least do it right, or are you planning on doing this every year now so you don't need to put much effort into it? Makes me wonder. Anyway, the management has taken a step to the worse in multiple fronts so I'm not even mad. Dropping slack for an inferior service, changing the name into a worse one, having all these moon lambo bois like tarmo888 making dumb comments like "scaling can only come AFTER adoption". I'm glad the price is pumping with those pump and dump news though, because I am increasingly seeking for an exit from this project. It had all the potential in the world but is now screwed due to the uneducated but vocal moon lambo bois who joined the project with the last rally (2017/2018).
One of us) My opinion is that the project was initially overvalued, including by me. But as time moved, the flaws began to show up as acne on the skin of a teen. After all it doesn't scale because tonych do not know how to scale it |
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tarmo888
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March 05, 2019, 04:02:52 PM
Last edit: March 05, 2019, 04:23:04 PM by tarmo888 |
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I'm a Byteball dev and a service provider for the byteball platform and I'm still going to call it byteball because I never agreed with Obyte as it's an inconvenient name to pronounce and it looks weird. If you were going to change the name then at least do it right, or are you planning on doing this every year now so you don't need to put much effort into it? Makes me wonder. Anyway, the management has taken a step to the worse in multiple fronts so I'm not even mad. Dropping slack for an inferior service, changing the name into a worse one, having all these moon lambo bois like tarmo888 making dumb comments like "scaling can only come AFTER adoption". I'm glad the price is pumping with those pump and dump news though, because I am increasingly seeking for an exit from this project. It had all the potential in the world but is now screwed due to the uneducated but vocal moon lambo bois who joined the project with the last rally (2017/2018).
One of us) My opinion is that the project was initially overvalued, including by me. But as time moved, the flaws began to show up as acne on the skin of a teen. After all it doesn't scale because tonych do not know how to scale it Lol @ "Byteball dev". Couple of PRs and commits on Github doesn't make you a Obyte developer. You have just made some chatbots that hardly use any Obyte core functionality. You could easily port them to FB Messenger, are you going to call yourself FB Messenger developer then? Slack was inferior service for Obyte because you don't understand the problems that the team had with Slack. Your solution to turn Obyte Slack into payed community is not a solution for a platform, which wants to be open for everybody, so Discord is better for that. Also, Slack was hell to moderate, Discord has better options for that because it is aimed to communities like that. Only things Discord is inferior to Slack: threaded comments and quoting. I never said "scaling can only come AFTER adoption", what I said was that there is no point to focus on scaling when there is no need for scaling yet. Year ago Obyte could do 15TPS, now it can do already 30TPS on average (peaks can go even into hundreds or thousands), but the need for TPS is still below 1TPS. It is not only my opinion, it's opinion of others too, that's why it's not a main focus. I am just focal about it. Obyte already scales better than Bitcoin and Ethereum on base layer. Tony knows how to scale it, it just not the main focus. Some steps for scaling has already been done with improving the SQL queries. Obyte core is not memory heavy or CPU heavy, it's heavy on the disk, so there are plenty of opportunities to scale from there (different databases have been tested). Eventually the whole ocore could be rewritten with C++ or some other low-level language (Node.js was chosen only to iterate faster in the beginning). And then there is layer-2, which Obyte haven't even touched yet. I consider Hyena a lambo boi, you are the one who is looking at the exit sign, I don't plan to exit nor buy any lambos. I just don't like people shit-talking without actually helping the project any way. |
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kaicrypzen
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March 05, 2019, 04:30:34 PM |
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As far as I'm concerned, announcements of announcements should be avoided, they seem to just create hype, pumps and dumps and burnt people. And no matter when the announcement is made, insiders will always dump on late comers, that's how it has always worked when a new listing happens/is announced.
As for a listing on Binance, I think the probability is very slim, because they don't have a history of having the coin devs hint to a listing on their platform, but who knows. Anyway, imo it's not gonna be Binance, I just hope it's not HitBTC...
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diyhockey
Jr. Member
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Activity: 79
Merit: 2
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March 05, 2019, 05:28:22 PM
Last edit: March 05, 2019, 05:46:10 PM by diyhockey |
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As far as I'm concerned, announcements of announcements should be avoided, they seem to just create hype, pumps and dumps and burnt people. And no matter when the announcement is made, insiders will always dump on late comers, that's how it has always worked when a new listing happens/is announced.
As for a listing on Binance, I think the probability is very slim, because they don't have a history of having the coin devs hint to a listing on their platform, but who knows. Anyway, imo it's not gonna be Binance, I just hope it's not HitBTC...
Binance has rules for new coins "if listing becomes known prior to listing - the agreement is canceled". All interested parties aware of it. It impossible they post it on twitter. I'd like bithumb. But i fell it will be shitexchange. I'd bet it will be Bit-Z actually this is the only free of censor place |
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adaseb
Legendary
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Activity: 3738
Merit: 1708
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March 06, 2019, 03:03:23 AM |
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As far as I'm concerned, announcements of announcements should be avoided, they seem to just create hype, pumps and dumps and burnt people. And no matter when the announcement is made, insiders will always dump on late comers, that's how it has always worked when a new listing happens/is announced.
As for a listing on Binance, I think the probability is very slim, because they don't have a history of having the coin devs hint to a listing on their platform, but who knows. Anyway, imo it's not gonna be Binance, I just hope it's not HitBTC...
Binance has rules for new coins "if listing becomes known prior to listing - the agreement is canceled". All interested parties aware of it. It impossible they post it on twitter. I'd like bithumb. But i fell it will be shitexchange. I'd bet it will be Bit-Z actually this is the only free of censor place Well the annoncement didn't state what exchange it was going to be, so technically they didn't violate the rules. However its on thin ice since they suggested that "Top 10 volume by CMC". Either way it has pulled back since the annoncement so people aren't convinced its Binanace. In the future its best not to mention news such as future exchange listings because it can be considered a pump attempt. |
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Hyena
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Activity: 2114
Merit: 1011
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March 06, 2019, 10:40:49 AM |
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Lol @ "Byteball dev". Couple of PRs and commits on Github doesn't make you a Obyte developer. You have just made some chatbots that hardly use any Obyte core functionality. You could easily port them to FB Messenger, are you going to call yourself FB Messenger developer then?
Slack was inferior service for Obyte because you don't understand the problems that the team had with Slack. Your solution to turn Obyte Slack into payed community is not a solution for a platform, which wants to be open for everybody, so Discord is better for that. Also, Slack was hell to moderate, Discord has better options for that because it is aimed to communities like that. Only things Discord is inferior to Slack: threaded comments and quoting.
I never said "scaling can only come AFTER adoption", what I said was that there is no point to focus on scaling when there is no need for scaling yet. Year ago Obyte could do 15TPS, now it can do already 30TPS on average (peaks can go even into hundreds or thousands), but the need for TPS is still below 1TPS. It is not only my opinion, it's opinion of others too, that's why it's not a main focus. I am just focal about it. Obyte already scales better than Bitcoin and Ethereum on base layer.
Tony knows how to scale it, it just not the main focus. Some steps for scaling has already been done with improving the SQL queries. Obyte core is not memory heavy or CPU heavy, it's heavy on the disk, so there are plenty of opportunities to scale from there (different databases have been tested). Eventually the whole ocore could be rewritten with C++ or some other low-level language (Node.js was chosen only to iterate faster in the beginning). And then there is layer-2, which Obyte haven't even touched yet.
I consider Hyena a lambo boi, you are the one who is looking at the exit sign, I don't plan to exit nor buy any lambos. I just don't like people shit-talking without actually helping the project any way.
Lol @ "Byteball dev". Couple of PRs and commits on Github doesn't make you a Obyte developer. You have just made some chatbots that hardly use any Obyte core functionality. You could easily port them to FB Messenger, are you going to call yourself FB Messenger developer then?
Apparently you have no idea what I've done for Byteball, not surprisingly though, because I was here long before you. Not only in terms of Byteball but in cryptocurrency general. You can see from my bitcointalk forum profile that I joined in early 2012. I got into bitcoin when it was cheap (4$) and I got into byteball when 1 gbyte was 10$. not to mention all the free gbytes I received during the initial distribution thanks to the bitcoins I linked. I am not surprised though, that you keep spitting bile at me, because you are one jealous (and fat) laggard which is apparent in your behavior. You appeared on the scene during the euphoria phase of the last rally and you know it and you are trying to hide it by being quick to downtalk "those other lambo boys" (but not you, oh no, you are not like THEM). You compensate with petty talk and arguments the shortcomings in other aspects of your image, trying too hard to fit in and "contribute". It's so obvious and it's disgusting. As for my contribution, I have developed a functional Byteball casino which goes much farther than just a chat bot messenger. Not to mention that I provided the community with a C++ function for a byteball address validation and a bb2tcp proxy that let's anyone easily convert byteball connections to plaintext TCP. I guess while you've been busy talking the talk I've been busy walking the walk, as I disappeared from the slack roughly at the time I started developing the Byteball casino project (almost 2 years ago). But, you? A web site that puts your avatar inside an O-letter?! WTF? Are you making a joke here or what? You are talking about contribution and your own contribution is like a rookie level programming task completed by someone who even didn't learn software development in school but took it up by themselves as a hobby. I never said "scaling can only come AFTER adoption", what I said was ...
Softening things up there, aren't we? You have now resorted to shifting goalposts like all losers do when they have no other options. No problem, you stupidly chose the worst position to defend, so changing your opinion now is perfectly fine. What is not fine is the fact that you don't have balls to admit your mistakes and you are trying to smoothly shift the goal post without losing face. Slack was inferior service for Obyte because you don't understand the problems that the team had with Slack. Your solution to turn Obyte Slack into payed community is not a solution for a platform, which wants to be open for everybody, so Discord is better for that. Also, Slack was hell to moderate, Discord has better options for that because it is aimed to communities like that. Only things Discord is inferior to Slack: threaded comments and quoting.
A paid slack plan allows guest access. The platform would still be open for everybody. There was no good reason to switch away from slack and you know it. I never joined that discord and I never will. Probably best would be to fork the Byteball platform to maintain the original Tony's vision as defined in the Byteball's whitepaper . It would be good in a sense that we would also get rid of cockroaches like you, Tarmo, because clearly you have no understanding of the economic incentives that are of grave importance when it comes to scaling Byteball for the whole world. Right now, the worst thing about Byteball is the community as it's been infested by brainwashed moon lambo boys who think that cryptos are all about holding hands and doing pump-and-dumps around a socialist campfire. Byteball could scale really well if the economic incentives were right. It requires witnesses to professionalize and invest in hardware. Right now the greatest threat to byteball is the widespread fallacy that home users need to run nodes and validate transactions. Tony was smart enough to provide the lite wallet from the beginning but the idea of professional nodes has not been emphasized enough. I have not yet lost all hope for Byteball, but recent developments are not to be proud of. For example, the Byteball Improvement Protocol initiative could flush the whole project down the toilet. Just because Blockstream Token (BTC) uses it does not mean it's a good idea. You see, a base layer of money has to be rock solid and never change so that businesses could build on it. Bitcoin Core is doing it wrong and I am hurt to see Byteball going the same direction. You don't see the IP or TCP changing once every 6 months, do you? Internet would not exist if IP had an IPIP (internet protocol improvment protocol) and self-proclaimed shitlords using it as a personal experiment for whatever wild ideas they get. The good thing is that it is true that with proper economic incentives, hardware and software, Byteball would have no problem scaling for the whole world. Also, Tony hasn't personally said anything stupid yet, so even if the community is full of brainwashed morons such as Tarmo, as long as Tony is not listening them and drives the project to the right direction, I can keep building on Byteball. |
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tarmo888
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March 06, 2019, 01:35:32 PM |
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Apparently you have no idea what I've done for Byteball, not surprisingly though, because I was here long before you. Not only in terms of Byteball but in cryptocurrency general. You can see from my bitcointalk forum profile that I joined in early 2012. I got into bitcoin when it was cheap (4$) and I got into byteball when 1 gbyte was 10$. not to mention all the free gbytes I received during the initial distribution thanks to the bitcoins I linked. I am not surprised though, that you keep spitting bile at me, because you are one jealous (and fat) laggard which is apparent in your behavior. You appeared on the scene during the euphoria phase of the last rally and you know it and you are trying to hide it by being quick to downtalk "those other lambo boys" (but not you, oh no, you are not like THEM). You compensate with petty talk and arguments the shortcomings in other aspects of your image, trying too hard to fit in and "contribute". It's so obvious and it's disgusting.
As for my contribution, I have developed a functional Byteball casino which goes much farther than just a chat bot messenger. Not to mention that I provided the community with a C++ function for a byteball address validation and a bb2tcp proxy that let's anyone easily convert byteball connections to plaintext TCP. I guess while you've been busy talking the talk I've been busy walking the walk, as I disappeared from the slack roughly at the time I started developing the Byteball casino project (almost 2 years ago). But, you? A web site that puts your avatar inside an O-letter?! WTF? Are you making a joke here or what? You are talking about contribution and your own contribution is like a rookie level programming task completed by someone who even didn't learn software development in school but took it up by themselves as a hobby.
So, your greatest achievement is that you were early and you ported Javascript code into C++ code and created bb2tcp that only you use? https://github.com/coingaming/bb2tcphttps://wiki.obyte.org/Dev#Obyte_address_validation_in_C.2B.2BYour other contributions are adding extra pairing event and fixing console for non-tty https://github.com/byteball/ocore/commits?author=1Hyenahttps://github.com/byteball/headless-obyte/commits?author=1HyenaOh, and then there was also that PR that added your MUD bot to bot store https://github.com/byteball/obyte-hub/commits?author=1HyenaDamn, you have been so busy.  If all you know me is by the O-letter tool that took me only couple hours to make then you clearly have no idea what I have done during last 8 months. I am not going to list them here because there would be too many things to list, but your contribution is basically shown on just 5 links. And no, I got my first Bytes in October 2017 (like most other cryptocurrencies I got) and joined Slack community in end of March 2018 when email attestation was announced. I never said "scaling can only come AFTER adoption", what I said was ...
Softening things up there, aren't we? You have now resorted to shifting goalposts like all losers do when they have no other options. No problem, you stupidly chose the worst position to defend, so changing your opinion now is perfectly fine. What is not fine is the fact that you don't have balls to admit your mistakes and you are trying to smoothly shift the goal post without losing face. Not softening anything, just saying that you are lying or misunderstood. Right now, the worst thing about Byteball is the community as it's been infested by brainwashed moon lambo boys who think that cryptos are all about holding hands and doing pump-and-dumps around a socialist campfire.
I don't know why you are trying to tag me with socialism (I am against socialism), but like I said you before, you have weird understanding what socialism is. Byteball could scale really well if the economic incentives were right. It requires witnesses to professionalize and invest in hardware. Right now the greatest threat to byteball is the widespread fallacy that home users need to run nodes and validate transactions. Tony was smart enough to provide the lite wallet from the beginning but the idea of professional nodes has not been emphasized enough. I have not yet lost all hope for Byteball, but recent developments are not to be proud of. For example, the Byteball Improvement Protocol initiative could flush the whole project down the toilet. Just because Blockstream Token (BTC) uses it does not mean it's a good idea. You see, a base layer of money has to be rock solid and never change so that businesses could build on it. Bitcoin Core is doing it wrong and I am hurt to see Byteball going the same direction. You don't see the IP or TCP changing once every 6 months, do you? Internet would not exist if IP had an IPIP (internet protocol improvment protocol) and self-proclaimed shitlords using it as a personal experiment for whatever wild ideas they get.
The good thing is that it is true that with proper economic incentives, hardware and software, Byteball would have no problem scaling for the whole world. Also, Tony hasn't personally said anything stupid yet, so even if the community is full of brainwashed morons such as Tarmo, as long as Tony is not listening them and drives the project to the right direction, I can keep building on Byteball.
Sure, witnesses should have high-end hardware, nobody is against that, but it's not just witnesses who needs to keep up, all full nodes need to keep up. I don't know if you are running full node or not, but if you would then you would know that even Raspberry Pi can keep up with full node right now. So, what exactly are we suppose to scale if there is need for less than 1TPS. Tony has voiced his opinion about Bitcoin mining and economy of scale multiple times here, but I guess you don't read. Also, many of the latest improvements on getting from 15TPS to 30TPS is also his and they are all about optimizing the SQL queries and doing some queries in memory instead. Tony still runs most witnesses, so it's still his vision. But go ahead, make your fork, nobody is stopping you. Good luck. |
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Hyena
Legendary
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Activity: 2114
Merit: 1011
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March 07, 2019, 10:42:28 AM |
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I'm a Byteball dev and a service provider for the byteball platform and I'm still going to call it byteball because I never agreed with Obyte as it's an inconvenient name to pronounce and it looks weird. If you were going to change the name then at least do it right, or are you planning on doing this every year now so you don't need to put much effort into it? Makes me wonder. Anyway, the management has taken a step to the worse in multiple fronts so I'm not even mad. Dropping slack for an inferior service, changing the name into a worse one, having all these moon lambo bois like tarmo888 making dumb comments like "scaling can only come AFTER adoption". I'm glad the price is pumping with those pump and dump news though, because I am increasingly seeking for an exit from this project. It had all the potential in the world but is now screwed due to the uneducated but vocal moon lambo bois who joined the project with the last rally (2017/2018).
And no, I got my first Bytes in October 2017 (like most other cryptocurrencies I got) and joined Slack community in end of March 2018 when email attestation was announced.
^^^^ I rest my case, lambo boi Probably best would be to fork the Byteball platform to maintain the original Tony's vision as defined in the Byteball's whitepaper Grin.
But go ahead, make your fork, nobody is stopping you. Good luck. You must be so butthurt by now that you can't recognize a joke even if it's deliberately accompanied with an emoticon I mean, didn't the words "Tony's Vision" make you see a parallel with "Satoshi's Vision". Sure, the weather in Estonia is shit, but you don't have to let it affect your sense of humor, do you? I'm sorry that you're fat and didn't buy bitcoin when it was cheap, but taking your bile onto others is just amplifying your already poor condition. Now you're fat, poor and don't have any friends either. How is this any better? As a good old Estonian, always hating on his successful neighbor, right? As for measuring and comparing dicks ( git PRs ), I've long outgrown from that phase. You will see what I've been working on when it's done. |
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tarmo888
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March 07, 2019, 01:01:52 PM |
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I'm sorry that you're fat and didn't buy bitcoin when it was cheap, but taking your bile onto others is just amplifying your already poor condition. Now you're fat, poor and don't have any friends either. How is this any better? As a good old Estonian, always hating on his successful neighbor, right?
As for measuring and comparing dicks ( git PRs ), I've long outgrown from that phase. You will see what I've been working on when it's done.
You are all talk and no actions, maybe if you would spend less time pumping iron in gym and actually write code then you wouldn't have so shitty contribution history on Github. You are hating because you made wrong choice trying to figure out, which is real Bitcoin and now you are sad to see the reality. You forgot that you can be technically correct, but markets don't care how many university degrees you have. |
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friet
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Activity: 14
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March 07, 2019, 01:02:06 PM |
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Why the fee is fixed?
Currently it is so low so that it is not attractive to be witness.
If obyte price increases enough it will be so high so that it will not be attractive to transfer value. If that happens there will be very little time if any to find a solution to that.
What solution do you have to this drawback?
Why you cannot have normal fee % of transaction that would be attractive to witnesses and users instead tou have fee that is attractive to both only in certain price value?
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tyz
Legendary
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Activity: 3360
Merit: 1530
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March 07, 2019, 01:12:36 PM |
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If obyte price increases enough it will be so high so that it will not be attractive to transfer value.
Please explain why a high value should speak against a transfer? If so, then at the end of 2017 only a few coins would have had to be traded. The opposite was the case. Trading and transfer volumes were higher than ever. For all crypto currencies, also for Byteball aka Obyte. |
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tarmo888
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March 07, 2019, 01:17:36 PM |
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Why the fee is fixed?
Currently it is so low so that it is not attractive to be witness.
If obyte price increases enough it will be so high so that it will not be attractive to transfer value. If that happens there will be very little time if any to find a solution to that.
What solution do you have to this drawback?
Why you cannot have normal fee % of transaction that would be attractive to witnesses and users instead to have fee that is attractive to both only in certain price value?
The fee is based on the size of it takes to store this transaction, which makes it predictable. The calculation how much bytes would you need for 1000 transactions is always between 500kb-600kb. In the future, the value of bytes will based on how much anybody values making transactions on Obyte, so it will have intrinsic value, not just speculative value. Fees should not be the motivation to become a witness. If the price of GBYTE increases enough that it would be too high to transfer value then it's a good news because we have found it's real value and it will come down to price where people want to use it again. Currently it's $0.00002 and the price would need to increase 1000x to even become 2 cents. If that happens, there is no need for any solution, market will solve itself. |
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diyhockey
Jr. Member
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Activity: 79
Merit: 2
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March 07, 2019, 01:26:44 PM
Last edit: March 07, 2019, 01:52:32 PM by diyhockey |
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Why the fee is fixed?
Currently it is so low so that it is not attractive to be witness.
If obyte price increases enough it will be so high so that it will not be attractive to transfer value. If that happens there will be very little time if any to find a solution to that.
What solution do you have to this drawback?
Why you cannot have normal fee % of transaction that would be attractive to witnesses and users instead tou have fee that is attractive to both only in certain price value?
if the fees are too high then the developers will lower it by changing the code. Now you pay 1 byte for 1 byte of data, 1:1. Nothing prevents to make this ratio 0.3:1 or whatever. Although I might be wrong about the complexity. It is literally the same as 1mb blocks in Bitcoin. This is a completely random number, which can be either higher or lower (there was a several soft caps before we reached 1mb). It would seem to make sense to raise this limit as the blocks are filled, but .... we have what we have. Idiots seized power. Although many of them are certainly not idiots but parties with conflicting interest. The same can happen with Byteball. Witnesses will become greedy and will not want to reduce their income by changing ratio. Fanatics will tell you about Tony vision lol |
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friet
Newbie
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Activity: 14
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March 07, 2019, 01:37:02 PM |
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Guys,
It does not add up.
If developers have so much power so that they can change protocol then it is shitcoin.
Keeping it fixed does not add up also.
At what level of price 'people will want to use it again' ?
Can you tell?
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diyhockey
Jr. Member
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Activity: 79
Merit: 2
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March 07, 2019, 01:59:59 PM |
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Guys,
It does not add up.
If developers have so much power so that they can change protocol then it is shitcoin.
Keeping it fixed does not add up also.
At what level of price 'people will want to use it again' ?
Can you tell?
Changes may or may not be accepted. Developers bring it to you and you (you all) decide what you want. There is no reason to refuse the changes bearing the benefit. But what is good for you is harm to people earning a fee or providing third-party solutions to a problem. And vote of these people have more power than your. btw shitcoin doesn't mean lack of changes. Is mean coin nobody use. Widely all altcoins except Ethereum |
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friet
Newbie
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Activity: 14
Merit: 0
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March 07, 2019, 02:30:30 PM |
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Why not to do such a change now?
Why not to have % fee and give it to witnesses?
This could help obyte to grow.
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tarmo888
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March 07, 2019, 02:46:00 PM |
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Guys,
It does not add up.
If developers have so much power so that they can change protocol then it is shitcoin.
Keeping it fixed does not add up also.
At what level of price 'people will want to use it again' ?
Can you tell?
Developers can make the code, full nodes and witnesses decide. At lower level from the price where it became too expensive. Market will decide, what it's worth. |
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